Sudden Unexplained Barb Deaths [+ General Disc'n About Water, Conditioner, Etc.]

Water is the most important aspect of keeping fish alive. I’m immune to bad water now, and have been for a few decades, thanks to PolyFilter.

Hi @Hampalong

There is no doubt that PolyFilter is an excellent product. But, according to Arcadia, the UK importer's website, this is what it removes:

http://www.arcadia-aquatic.com/product/poly-filter/

So, for planted tank owners, the fact that PolyFilter removes iron is cause for concern. It doesn't specify which form(s) of iron it removes - ferrous and/or ferric.

I feel much more comfortable using re-mineralized RO/DI water.

JPC

Facts:
The water company adds chloramine to the water.
Any time I do a water test on tap water straight from the tap, it comes out as 0.2-0.4 ppm ammonium NH4.
Any time I do a test on tap water with API Tap Water Conditioner added to it, it immediately comes out as <0.05.
Any time I do a test on the tank, it always comes out as <0.05.
My assumption, therefore, was that the API Tap Water Conditioner was adequately addressing any ammonia issue.

Hi @fcmf

Which 'ammonia' test kit are you using? I notice that you are giving ammonium (NH₄⁺) figures. It is unusual for a test kit to report ammonium only, the more normal being Total Ammonia as I mentioned elsewhere.

EDIT (at 2000h 3/1/2020): Are you, by any chance, using the Seachem Free & Total Ammonia Test Kit? Are you able to check the pH of your tap water before and after adding the API Tap Water Conditioner? I'm keen to help you resolve this. Your earliest reply would be handy.

JPC

Facts:
The water company adds chloramine to the water.
Any time I do a water test on tap water straight from the tap, it comes out as 0.2-0.4 ppm ammonium NH4.
Any time I do a test on tap water with API Tap Water Conditioner added to it, it immediately comes out as <0.05.
Any time I do a test on the tank, it always comes out as <0.05.
My assumption, therefore, was that the API Tap Water Conditioner was adequately addressing any ammonia issue.

Hi @fcmf

I also use the JBL 'NH4' Test Kit. The accompanying booklet is not much help but, based on the colour chart, I conclude that this test kit uses what is known as the salicylate method. According to the very respectable Hach company, this test method measures total ammonia. Here's the relevant reference:

https://support.hach.com/app/answers/answer_view/a_id/1000858/~/do-the-nessler-and-salicylate-methods-detect-ammonia-or-ammonium%3F-

So, I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that all your 'ammonia' measurements are correct and trustworthy. But, I strongly urge you users of API Tap Water Conditioner (TWC) to contact API to ask some questions that will elicit an answer to the question "Does TWC remove free ammonia and ammonium from tap water that has undergone chloramine treatment"? From my experience, their technical support is good.

I don't think I can offer anything further on this one.

Good luck with API.

JPC

Very helpful all round, JPC - many thanks. Have contacted API UK; will post here once I receive a reply. [If I actually get any sleep tonight, rather than worrying about my fish, I expect I'll be dreaming / having nightmares about ammonium tests!]

Having added TWC to the tap water, is it necessary to do anything, e.g. stir the water to release any free ammonia before being added to a fish tank?

I always put the drops into the container before filling it with water - I do wonder if that makes a difference.  I'll test this out by doing it in reverse order...

EDIT (at 2000h 3/1/2020): Are you, by any chance, using the Seachem Free & Total Ammonia Test Kit? Are you able to check the pH of your tap water before and after adding the API Tap Water Conditioner? I'm keen to help you resolve this. Your earliest reply would be handy.

I only saw this belatedly. As for PH pre- and post- adding API Tap Water Conditioner, I conclude that it's roughly the same. I decided that, rather than do the test, figure out the PH, then re-do it with the TWC, I'd do both alongside one another to compare for any subtle differences. Interestingly, it looked as though PH had gone up slightly with the TWC added but, when I repeated the test for reliability purposes (and because I wondered if there might be an optical illusion with the red and black markings on the different containers and one being newer than the other), the reverse happened. In conclusion, although difficult to decipher actual PH, it's somewhere around 7.5-8.

According to this short review, TWC doesn’t do anything with the ammonia liberated from chloramine. So if your tank pH is above neutral you’ll have some level of free ammonia.
PolyFilter is an ingenious creation. It’s designed to absorb excess metals, leaving trace proportions for plants, and has no noticeable effect on them.

This is very confusing, in light of never having had a reading for ammonium in the tank - the test result has always been a very bright yellow, even with an overnight fatality. I'm also extremely faithful about monitoring water quality and doing water changes every 5-7 days and often an additional interim mini water change to remove snail poo if one has been eating wood and netting out any uneaten food as/when I notice it. The filter is maintained - media squeezed into bucket of being-discarded tank water - at every second main water change.
That aside, my PH is above neutral (which puts it at greater risk for any ammonia presence that might escape my diligent radar) and my water very soft indeed (which makes heavy metals more toxic). I would have thought that the nerite snails might have been adversely affected if any of either ammonia or heavy metals had somehow escaped my faithful monitoring and water dechlorinator respectively.
In terms of a way forward, and in spite of my consistent negative ammonium readings, I've relegated the API TWC to the back of the cupboard, done a second 60% water change with Seachem Prime this week, ordered Arcadia Poly-Filter a couple of days ago, and removed the Seachem Flourish tab from under the plant - although allegedly the copper content in them is of safe levels for invertebrates, it's not a risk I'm prepared to take.

I'll update this once I hear back from API UK.

API Tap Water Conditioner does not detoxify ammonia. It contains nothing that can can do this according to the safety data sheet.
I put the drops in the bucket then run the water in as fast as the tap will do.

Therefore, I am totally perplexed as to how my ammonium test alters so significantly from 0.2-0.4 on tapwater, to <0.05 immediately after API TWC added (or, specifically, tap water onto TWC drops, in the same 'fast filling' manner as Sue describes) and tank water has always been <0.05. I've only ever used this one brand of ammonium/ammonia test as I get refills for it, although I do have water test strips (which are difficult to decipher). I've re-read an e-mail exchange I didn't even recall that I'd had with my water supplier back in 2017, and they confirmed that chloramination definitely takes place in my area (and increasingly so in other areas), and indeed that was what I was treating for, so something isn't tallying up here. Also, even if the test kit were inaccurate, surely there would be signs of ammonia in the fish or snail behaviour. 

Updated to add: I have done a little experiment. I added the TWC chlorine dosage to the tap water (dropped in after filling the container on this occasion), took a sample for testing, then added the additional drops to TWC chloramination dosage. Interesting - same results of ammonium <0.05, even at the lower chlorine level dosage.

My thoughts exactly. If I watch the bits of limescale from the kettle, they are still swirling round the bucket by the time I start ladling it into the tank.

I'll update this once I hear back from API UK.

Hi @fcmf

Let's hope we get a useful (detailed?) reply. I'm looking forward to seeing what API say.

JPC

Water changes - and anything else which involves disturbing fish - should only be done at least half an hour after the tank lights turn on. It takes fish's eyes that long to adjust to the tank lights.
My main tank's lights come on at 11:30 am and I do water changes straight after lunch. But the betta's tank gets a lot more light being glass topped and the kitchen faces south, so I don't worry about waiting till after the lights come on, I usually do water changes before.

@fcmf dechlorinators break the chloramine bond, creating chlorine and ammonia/ammonium. It can’t be done without releasing those two.

@jaypeecee I don’t have that PolyFilter info. Official figures on PolyFilter are very hard to find, if they’re even published at all. All we really have is what’s written on the packaging. I’ve just never heard of any plants having an adverse effect from its use.
It’s actually pre-saturated with trace elements at marine levels. This apparently means it won’t adsorb them unless they’re in excess, although that might not be quite what a freshie plantsman wants to hear...