My Dead And Dying Fish

Got up at 3am to put in a carbon filter because I suddenly thought whilst lying there sleepless that maybe a carbon filter would remove any nasties.
After breakfast having carefully taken the two remaining from original 6 fish and put them in a bucket, I took out my little miniature garden, removed the compost, rinsed the roots, replanted in the now empty tank into a finer grade gravel.
Telephoned the compost maker to enquired whether they put any insecticide in their compost.  They most certainly do not thank you very much. Just good wholesome ingredients which are excellent for plants.  OOPS
Took the opportunity with a fishless tank to remove anything that looked remotely like a bit of dead fish, stirred up the gravel a bit and used a net to scoop out bits of debris.
Removed all loom bands from the Java moss covered stones (looked up problems on the computer for loom bands as I had a memory that there was a problem regarding children and yes, some contain phthelates so they are gone and fishing line substituted.
I have been messaging MA since Saturday to tell them about my fish and they have been very good about replying, initially to say that they had no explanation except for the first fish which could have been the stress of the transfer.
I have been so fed up and "down" because I thought I had done everything by the book.
Checked the tank parameters again and all seems well. No ammonia, nitrites, .25 nitrate no chlorine.

Have just received a facebook message from MA saying they apologise profusely.  They didn't think there was a problem with the Endlers which they have had for around 2 weeks and at first they compared theirs to mine and couldn't find a reason.  They now accept that my fish need to be treated as there is a health problem which is only just beginning to show at the shop.
They have asked me to call in tomorrow and collect some free treatment and they will sort out replacement fish at the end of the treatment period.

I am sorry about my lovely little fish but goodness I am soooooooooo relieved that it wasn't because of me!!!

I'm so sorry to read that you had so much bad luck with your first fish. I hope this didn't put you off fish keeping, it doesn't always go this bad.

Unfortunately, as hobbyists, we don't have the specialist equipment to identify all the different pathogens the fish bring from the lfs into our tanks (to be honest, most lfs staff don't either), so there's always an element of risk.

Hope everything goes much better with your new fish.

I'm so glad to hear the problem is the shop's fault. I know what you mean about them being the only fish as I have lost over half the fish in my big tank to camallanus worms 



Re the loom bands - phthalate esters are plasticisers, found in all plastic things though more in soft plastic than hard plastic. They will be present in all the plastic in your tank to some degree eg filter casing. Being totally ignorant, I have no idea what loom bands are but if they are soft bendy plastic they will contain more phthalates than the hard plastic in filter casing etc. A few years ago we were warned not to use clingfilm for wrapping fatty foods as these absorb phthalates from the clingfilm more easily than non-fatty foods. It was recommended at the time to use a layer of greaseproof paper between the food and clingfilm. And they were implicated in the development of macular degeneration. Sum total of my knowledge of phthalate esters.

Hi Sanjo,

I'm glad you've found a reason for your deaths. It is bad luck that this happened with your first fish but at least the shop have owned up and have agreed to give you some treatment. Did they say what the 'problem' is??

Hope things go more smoothly for you now. 

FC76

Quick update. Went to a funeral today and stopped at MA on the way back for the promised medicine.
Must have looked like I was in mourning for my fishies!

I have been given a bottle of odimor which is a treatment for skin diseases on freshwater fish.
They were very apologetic and said their fish didn't show any signs until Sunday and then they went downhill very fast.
I have now been given another problem because the odimor will destroy bacteria if the filters are left in
Apparently I've done mine "the old fashioned way with ammonia!"
After treatment I may have to buy some bacteria to replace that which will have been lost.
So. Six weeks down the line and I am back almost exactly where I started.
Instead of treating two teeny fish in my 22 litre tank and risking my bacteria I have therefore transferred the two remaining, very poorly looking Endlers to the quarantine tank.

I assume now that I have to start feeding the main tank with 1ppm ammonia to kep it going?

Thanks for that Sue.
Yes the container states it will kill the bacteria and to remove it from the tank.

MA did actually GIVE me the stuff as it was their fault.
I do have a British King in my box.  If the fish are still alive tomorrow I might give that a trial.
I'm pretty sure they won't be though.  They don't look very healthy.

Even though the Endlers are currently in a quarantine tank does it mean that my Aquanano has been infected by them and so I  must treat that tank?

I have just got out my British King. It's just called "White Spot Control" doesn't say WS3.  It does say I can continue using filters and says to vacuum the gravel at the end of treatment to remove any resting cysts

OK Sue. Will do that.
I am a bit disappointed with MA.
It seemed where ever I looked on the web they had a good reputation.
When we got the fish on Friday the bloke selling them to us said they were really hardy little fish.
When I spoke to them today another member of staff said they were "sensitive".  They have the Endlers in the tank with other fish but the sign says only the Endlers are not for sale as they are being "acclimatised" so any other fish from that tank apparently can be sold.

I expect I shall have to go back there for the replacements since they cost £11 and they have said they would replace them and as pensioners we have to watch the pennies.

My other problem is, if the fish die and I go back to "feeding" the tank with ammonia what should I do when we go away in March for my Birthday. We are away for a week.
I wouldn't be able to top the ammonia up every other day. 
I was thinking of putting in the full 3ppm on the day we go away and let it get on with it in the hope that they'll still be some bacteria when we get back. 
The  fish won't be replaced until then in any case.
 The other half is totally peed off by the whole thing.  It isn't exactly local and we have to go on the motorway and then have to go on a loop to get back to the other side off the motorway and I only insisted on going there because of their rep.
One lives and learns.
At this rate I might just as well have gone to PaH

I'm sure at some stage we will sit looking at the tank and think how lovely it looks.
Actually it is quite pretty even as it is.
The OH is all for sticking to a planted tank!! or even (horror of horrors - put the plastic fish back in. I'm not sure he is joking either)

Thanks Sue.
Feeling very fed up actually. Got up this morning and the last two are dead in the bottom of the quarantine tank.
There is a lot of "debris" on the glass bottom. Sort of white speckles. Don't know if that is from the original medicine or whether it might, in fact, be cysts?

Talked it over with my husband and he says he like's the tank as it is. ie a planted tank and he would be quite happy to leave it at that.
I mentioned eventual shrimp and he is OK with that but he doesn't want to see me getting upset anymore because I can't control what is happening to my "livestock".

I shall do as you suggest with the ammonia and treatment though.

I know shrimp need a mature tank because of algae needing to build up and I certainly don't want to start off on the wrong foot with them.
What age tank constitutes "mature"

I've now got to go and start removing dead bodies again and sterilising the tank and equipment.

IT's all a bit raw feeling at the moment Mad.
Might feel better once we get back from holiday

I see where you are coming from Steve. I have no hesitation going back to one of the two shops that are the only possible sources of the camallanus worm I've had. The other one rarely stocks anything I'm inetersted in.


Sanjo, if the last two fish have died, don't bother adding ammonia to the tank unless you intend getting new fish once you are back from holiday. If you want to wait a while and then think about shrimps, concentrate in the plants. Richard may be able to help you with those more than me because without fish you will need to feed he plants.
When you are ready for shrimps, add 1ppm ammonia (shrimps have a small bioload so don't need 3ppm) and see if the plants alone can cope with that amount of ammonia. Even after a few months you will probably have some bacteria in there though they would be dormant and you'd have to wait for them to wake up. You might have to wait until the tank (plants and/or bacteria) can remove that 1ppm in 24 hours but it won't take anything like as long as the original cycle did.
If you go for something like cherry shrimp you'll soon have a thriving colony of adults, sub-adults, juveniles and babies.