Fish Keep Dying Any Advice Greatly Appreciated.

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Offline tipsey2tinker

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Fish keep dying any advice greatly appreciated.
« on: January 17, 2014, 06:49:40 PM »
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Hello all,

I'm new here and hope that some one could advise me please?

If anyone would take the time to read my post I’d greatly appreciate it. I’m so upset about the whole thing and would really like to hear other people’s opinions on what may be happening. I'm sorry but I've put a lot of information in this post. Thank you.
  :)

Size of the tank is 200 Litres / Fluval Roma 200

Fluval U4 Internal Filter (130 to 240L)

The tank has been set up since the middle of December last 2013, so for about 5 weeks. I set the tank up substrate, gravel, plant, Mopani wood (soaked for quite some time) decorations.

The tank ran for at least 7/8 days with no fish. The wood leaked a lot of tannins and the water went yellow so I did a water change. I went to the pet shop and they gave me some carbon filters to try and get rid of the tannins. It has worked somewhat but there is always a yellow tint now even after water changes.

Prior to getting the fish in the tank I also bought Evolution Aqua Pure Aquarium (http://www.evolutionaqua.com/acatalog/PURE_Aquarium.html) and applied the correct amount to the tank.

48 hours later I went to the aquarium store and I stupidly did not test the water before adding fish.  I went to the aquarium shop and I brought some guppies, I believe 6/7 and two red cherry shrimps. They were fine no problems.

I have done water changes every two weeks. I have De-chlorinated the water and let it rest to room temperature before ciphering the water back into the tank.
I have carried out testing on the water and all was fine.

However within two weeks I have lost about 4/5 guppies, 1 cherry shrimp, and a butterfly sucker. There is a very poorly male guppy in my breeding net at the moment who is now on his side and I don't think it will be long until he's not here. He doesn't move for a while then does slightly. I’m so upset and feel awful about it. As the fish have been dying I have checked the water quality and details are below. The fish that's poorly in the net looked like he went thin in the body and he gills appeared to be “flared”, he just stayed on the surface of the water all day today and part of yesterday as well.


Current water measurements

pH = 7.2
Ammonia = 0 mg or 0.1 mg
Nitrite = 0.3 mg
Nitrate = 5mg
Phosphate = 0.25 mg
Water temperature 24/25 C

Last time I changed the water was 5/6  days ago and I believe it was about 20%/25% that I changed. 

Current inhabitants

2 orange shrimps
1 cherry shrimp
4 male guppies
6 female guppies
2 male endlers guppies
2 baby guppies approximately about 3 weeks old (ended up with these in the bag with the adult guppies - don't know their sex yet)
Approximately 16 baby guppies about a day old (saw them all late last night) I have put them in a breeding net and unfortunately they keep on escaping.

I'm aware I should have more female guppies, I thought I bought 4 more female guppies from the aquarium store, as the staff member said these were female however two of them were are actually males.

I have some plants also, sorry I do not know the names, some are grass like and some are quite leafy. I did have another plant but the guppies just pulled the plant up I believe so that has now gone. Some of the leaves on the plants have turned yellow and brown? Does anyone know what could be causing this?

I have some aeration with a canon and pirate ship with air stones underneath releasing bubbles.

Aquarium light on for 8 – 10 hours a day.
Bubblers on for about 6/7 hours a day.

Fish food

Dry flakes, dried bloodworm. Today have put a pea in the tank for the Yellow cobra guppy as he appeared to be swimming vertically and I was advised to try this method to see if it would help him as he may have bladder problems. Currently he is acting fine, although he looks to have red markings on his tail?

The fish and shrimps get fed once a day (just a minimal amount of food) and the next day they don’t get fed.
Somewhere along the line I have accumulated a lot of very small snails.

I have heard that I may have new tank syndrome and I’ve looked into this but don’t fully understand it.

If anyone could give me any advice I would really appreciate it, honestly I would.

Thank you :)
 


Offline Sue

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Re: Fish keep dying any advice greatly appreciated.
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2014, 07:24:50 PM »
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Your fish are dying because you did not cycle the tank before buying them.
Fish excrete ammonia. This is toxic to them, but in a cycled filter there is a colony of bacteria which uses ammonia as food and convert it into nitrite. This is also toxic, but a second colony of bacteria in the filter uses nitrite as food and turn it into nitrate. This is only toxic at high levels.
This is what happens in a cycled filter, but a new tank and filter has none of these bacteria; they have to grow and this takes several weeks. Until then the toxins build up and poison the fish, causing what is called new tank syndrome. I know you added the Evolution Aqua Pure but it is unlikely to have worked. [The only ones that do work sometimes are Dr Tim's One and Only and Tetra Safe Start. The others contain the wrong species of nitrite-eating bacteria, and often dead bacteria]
The only way to keep these toxins from killing the fish is by doing water changes to remove them until the bacteria grow. Ideally, test for ammonia and nitrite twice a day and do a water change every time you see a reading for either of them above zero. The amount of water to change depends on how high the levels are. Some people find they have to do daily 50% water changes for a few weeks to keep the ammonia and nitrite under control.

Your test results indicate that you have grown some ammonia eaters or the level of that would be a lot higher. The nitrite eaters can't start to grow until the ammonia eaters have made some nitrite so the level of nitrite always peaks later than ammonia, and drops to zero later.
I would suggest you do a water change asap, at least 50% to get that nitrite reading below 0.25 [the highest safe-ish level, the only totally safe level is zero] then start testing every day. The results will tell you when to do the next water change.
Once you find the levels are remaining at zero without you having to do any water changes, the filter will be cycled. Then you can start doing weekly maintenance water changes of 25 - 30% to remove the nitrate before that gets too high.
But remember that you will have just enough bacteria to deal with the ammonia made by your current fish, and the nitrite made from that ammonia. If you buy more fish, the bacteria will have to multiply to keep up with the extra ammonia. For this reason, don't get a lot of new fish in one go. It is safe to add up to a third of the amount of fish already there in one go.


Guppies are weak fish nowadays; they are very inbred to get those pretty colours and breeders will use any fish whether it is a healthy specimen or not if it looks pretty. Guppies won't be able to cope well with ammonia and nitrite in the water. Shrimps are even more susceptible to them than fish.
Was the butterfly sucker one of these or perhaps one of the related species? These fish can be difficult to keep in a tank with 'ordinary' tropical fish as they need fast flowing, cooler water. It is possible that their need for cooler water, combined with ammonia and nitrite in the water, is what killed it.




Livebearers are quite easy to sex, though it is surprising just how many shop workers don't know. It is always worth checking the bag before buying and make them remove some fish if they've got it wrong.

Offline tipsey2tinker

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Re: Fish keep dying any advice greatly appreciated.
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2014, 03:13:43 PM »
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Hello Sue,

Thank you so much for your advice I really appreciate it. I'm going to start to do a water change now and take on the rest of your advice. I do feel very silly for not allowing the tank to set up properly and I'm paying the price now.

When I brought the guppies from the shop they were in a female tank, so I'm annoyed as to why I ended up with two male and two female and not four females, but that's my fault and I should of checked the bag like you said.

The butterfly fish is the one you linked me to (Hillstream loach). I did ask the aquarium shop keeper if it was suitable with guppies and he said fine, no problem etc etc. Thank you for your advice on the Hill stream loach.

I will look into buying either Dr Tim's One and Tetra Safe Start.

Thank you Sue for your help. :)


Offline Sue

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Re: Fish keep dying any advice greatly appreciated.
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2014, 04:53:00 PM »
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Don't feel silly, tank instructions and shops rarely tell you what you need to know. I do wonder if it is because they don't understand cycling or because they think they'll frighten away potential customers.
You will probably find the filter instructions tell you to replace the sponges etc in the filter every so many weeks. Don't! You'll just throw away the bacteria you are trying hard to grow. I think the U series filters have sponges, ceramic noodles and poly-carbon pads? When they get mucky, wash the sponges and ceramics in old tank water that you take out during a water change, never under the tap. They will last for years. The poly carbon pads can be replaced, though again you can just wash those.


You may find it hard to find Dr Tim's as it is an American product. The Tetra one is sold in many shops, both real and on-line. The don't work every time as if the bottles have been handled badly during transport and storage at a warehouse, the bacteria can be damaged or killed.

A word of warning about shops - some of them will say anything in order to make a sale. It is safer to check out any fish on-line before buying. There is a database on here (fish profiles in the menu at the top) and I also use the site seriouslyfish which has a bigger database.

Offline Resa

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Re: Fish keep dying any advice greatly appreciated.
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2014, 11:51:03 PM »
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Hi T2T,

I'm sorry you have had such an upsetting start to your fishkeeping....there's a lot to learn in the beginning and it can seem quite daunting, but keep at it and listen to advice....it's free! Sue will always point you in the right direction and knows EVERYTHING!
I used the Tetra Safe Start and it worked for me, but it still doesn't work instantly like they would have you believe. One tip when buying this is to go to a store that is busy so they have a fresh turn over of stock of their bottled products. Go through all the bottles on the shelf (don't just ask the sales assistant for it, the word 'sales' in the title tells you what they are interested in) and choose the the bottle with the longest expiry date on it.

As Sue said, guppies are a very weak fish. I bought 5 when my tank was first cycled...about 11 months ago. Of these 5 I have only one left. It is useful if you can buy from a local breeder but of course, this is not always possible. I only bought male guppies but I did make the mistake of buying 3 platys....2 females and 1 male....I have been taking baby platys to my local shop ever since!!! I have been very lucky to have a shop that will take them off my hands, they don't usually. So, be aware of that with your baby guppies.

In the meanwhile, don't give up, you will get there and remember good advice is just a post away.
Good luck!

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Panda Cory (11) - Otocinclus (2) - Platy (3) - Dwarf Rainbowfish (7) - Dwarf Gourami (2) - Red Phantom Tetra (5) - Salt and Pepper Catfish (2) - Otocinclus (2) - Guppy (male) (4) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Platy (6) - Dwarf Rainbowfish (5) - Panda Cory (6) - Otocinclus (2) - Salt and Pepper Catfish (6) - Dwarf Gourami (1) - Platy (5) - Guppy (male) (4) - Otocinclus (2) - Panda Cory (6) - Platy (3) - Dwarf Rainbowfish (5) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


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