Endler Is Nigh?

Author Topic: Endler is nigh?  (Read 3148 times) 11 replies

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nearly

  • Fishy Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Likes: 0
  • Tropical Fish Keeper
Endler is nigh?
« on: May 01, 2021, 10:29:31 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
I’d appreciate an opinion on this please, as I can’t work out what’s happening myself.

I think one of my Endlers isn’t long for this tank.  For the last five hours he’s been furiously swimming in the same stationary spot at the surface, mouth constantly open, but not gasping.  It’s really quite heart breaking.

Backstory:
I’m new to this and have been trying to learn as I go along, so am probably making mistakes all over the place.  We bought an aquarium as an alternative to a hamster/puppy/cat/guinea pig at the behest of a medium to small person.  With hindsight, I’d have made some different decisions about what we’ve done if I’d had more time to research more thoroughly.

Anyway, we bought a 37L tank (40cm x 25cm x 40cm) at the beginning of March.  Having done some research I attempted a fishless cycle, dosing 2ppm of ammonia and dumping two bottles of Tetra Safestart in the first couple of weeks (I figured more bacteria couldn’t hurt)..What I didn’t realise was that having planted the tank quite heavily initially I’d retarded the process.  Eventually we got to the point where a dosed 2ppm of ammonia disappeared after 24 hours, although nitrite never went higher than 0.5ppm.  So I’m not sure if the ammonia is being mostly consumed by the plants (which are growing well)or whether the Safestart nitrite eating bacteria got a head start on their ammonia eating cousins.

Generally the water parameters are (measured using either API liquid test kit or API strips):
PH 8ish - variance between 7.5 and 8.2, but some of that could be down to my colour interpretation.
GH 180ppm
KH 180ppm
Nitrate out of the tap is around 15-20 ppm. (Is there actually a difference between the API liquid kit’s colours of orange for this test?)

Last Sunday we bought 6 male Endlers.

Tuesday late evening “Spongebob”, the larger leopard print endler was swimming stationary at the top of the tank in the corner near the feeding hatch.  I checked ammonia levels (0ppm) and adjusted the filter output to make sure it was maximising surface agitation.  After a couple of minutes he swam off and seemed to be behaving normally (swimming at various levels in the tank, interacting with the other fish).

Saturday late afternoon, we noticed he was swimming at the surface, in a stationary position, in the corner of the tank.  He’s facing out from the corner, head towards where the flow from the filter output is coming from.  He’s not gasping, but his mouth is open all the time (I think, they’re tiny and I’m at the age where I need about three different pair of glasses but won’t admit it.  At least I think his mouth is open, it might be damaged, it doesn’t look the same as the others whose mouths are closed most of the time.)

When we fed them, he chased after food and seemed to inhale smaller flakes (Tetra micro flakes that have been ground between fingertips), but gave up on a couple of larger flakes.

Water readings were as normal for ph, gh & kh and just below 26C  Ammonia and nitrite were 0, nitrate was around 25-30.

Saturday is tank cleaning day.  When we turned the filter off, he swam off and behaved normally again.

As part of a general clean around 30-40% water is changed.  Water is dechlorinated with Aquacare tap water conditioner and goes in the aquarium at around the right temperature.

As soon as we turned the filter back on, he was back to the same spot, swimming furiously to stay absolutely stationary.

His tank mates seem perfectly happy, exploring all areas of the aquarium.  Although we have noticed some potential bullying.  Three of his tank mates were regularly nipping/nudging his belly/flanks, although this stopped when the aquarium lights went out.

He’s been in the same spot for the last five hours, only shifting when bullied from the spot, returning as soon as he could.

Any ideas as to what’s happening?
Is he a more sensitive soul than the others and the first to succumb to a apocalypse because I’ve done something wrong?
Has he eaten something too big that he shouldn’t and is paying the ultimate price for it?
Is he just a poor specimen or been physically damaged in some way during the transfer?
Is he a victim of bullying and this is stress behaviour?

Any input gratefully received


Offline Nearly

  • Fishy Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Likes: 0
  • Tropical Fish Keeper
Re: Endler is nigh?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2021, 10:42:06 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Of course, taking a photo of him, the little beggar swims off from his spot for the first time in hours.

Photos have uploaded upside down somehow!

Offline Nearly

  • Fishy Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Likes: 0
  • Tropical Fish Keeper
Re: Endler is nigh?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2021, 10:58:38 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Right way up?

Offline Littlefish

  • Global Moderator Subscriber
  • Superstar Think Fishy Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4076
  • Likes: 330
  • aka Donna
Re: Endler is nigh?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2021, 07:52:32 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
I've not kept these fish personally, but looking at the pictures my first thought is that there appears to be something wrong with his mouth. Either it is deformed, infected, or my eyesight (even with glasses) leaves a lot to be desired, but the shape of the mouth (even accounting for it being open) doesn't look quite right. The front of the face doesn't look a pointy as I'd expect for this fish. He also appears to be a bit red in that area too, so perhaps some sort of infection.
Hopefully the others will be able to add further input/opinion on this, but could you have a look at the shape of the face in comparison to the others you have and let us know if his mouth/face does appear different in comparison. Perhaps post some pics of your other fish too.



Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator Subscriber
  • Superstar Think Fishy Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9866
  • Likes: 403
Re: Endler is nigh?
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2021, 09:11:10 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
I agree with Littlefish, his mouth does look odd in both photos. Is it like that all the time or did you just happen to take the photos while his mouth was open like that?

If it is like that permanently, there is something wrong with him, but I'm not very good at diagnosing illness  :(

You ammonia and nitrite are perfect, so it's not poisoning by either of them. Nitrate should be kept below 20 ppm where possible, but that doesn't poison fish instantly like the other two, it's a long term effect.

Apart from the mouth and swimming on the spot, are there any other physical symptoms? Any spots or discoloured patches?

How powerful is the filter? In the manual there should be some mention of the turnover in litres per hour (or possibly gallons per hour if it's an American brand). The fact that he swims normally when the filter is off makes me wonder.

The bullying - fish will do their best to hide the fact they are ill. But other fish in the group will pick on sick members, often put down to wanting to kill a fish which will attract predators as a sick fish is easier for them to pick off.










Re setting up the tank, there are tree ways to cycle a tank - there are stickies for fish-in and fishless on here, but we are missing a silent cycle method. This is using plants to cycle a tank. Plants take up ammonia as their preferred source of nitrogen, and when there are enough fast growing plants, they can take up all the ammonia made by a sensibly stocked tank. And plants turn ammonia into protein rather than nitrite.
Assuming your plants are fast growing, they should be able to keep nitrate at tap water level.
Overfeeding the fish contributes to nitrate as it's broken down to ammonia - and if there aren't enough plants the bacteria will turn uneaten food into nitrate. The same applies to fish poop in the substrate.

Offline Nearly

  • Fishy Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Likes: 0
  • Tropical Fish Keeper
Re: Endler is nigh?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2021, 10:05:27 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Thanks very much for the help.

He’s still going this morning, although has changed his position to now be swimming away from the filter outlet constantly.

The filter pump is rated at 230l/h and came in the box with the aquarium.  Briefly paused the filter this morning to pull the pump out and check rating and he stayed on the surface, but did change position around the tank a couple of times.

Plant life seems to be growing well, (I’m trimming about 10cm a week of Heteranthera Zostierifolia and Limnophila Sessiflora and the other less vigorous plants are also showing growth).

His lip is like that all the time.  More photos below, plus a photo of a healthier chum.

I’ve not noticed any changes in his appearance (marks or spots), but he’s only been here a week.

Offline Nearly

  • Fishy Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Likes: 0
  • Tropical Fish Keeper
Re: Endler is nigh?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2021, 10:12:17 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Photos

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator Subscriber
  • Superstar Think Fishy Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9866
  • Likes: 403
Re: Endler is nigh?
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2021, 10:16:26 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
230 l/h in a 37 litre tank is just over 6 times per hour. Perhaps a bit too strong for such small fish but not as bad as the filter that came with a 25 litre tank I once bought. Since the other endlers don't have a problem, it does indicate something not right with this one fish.

Given how quickly the problem with this fish started I suggest he was sick when you bought him - or he was damaged when the shop worker netted him out of the tank. Were you watching when they caught the fish - were they quick and efficient or did they chase the fish all over the tank and take ages catching them? Some shop workers are very clumsy and stress and even damage fish while catching them.

Offline Littlefish

  • Global Moderator Subscriber
  • Superstar Think Fishy Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4076
  • Likes: 330
  • aka Donna
Re: Endler is nigh?
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2021, 11:13:34 AM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
You noted in more than one comment that his mouth is open all the time, but he isn't gasping. That isn't normal.
Are there fuzzy edges to his mouth, or does his mouth look complete? In the first set of pics the edges of his mouth looked a but fuzzy/fluffy/uneven, as if he could have had a fungal infection. However, that doesn't seem to be the case in the more recent pics posted today. Even so, the top lip doesn't look quite right to me.
The picture of the tank mate shows what I think of as a healthy endler, so you may have been unlucky with Spongebob, as Sue has mentioned.
For now perhaps keep a close eye on him, and at feeding time do what you have done by crushing flake so he can just suck crumbs in. Please keep us informed and we may need to see how this progresses.

Offline Nearly

  • Fishy Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Likes: 0
  • Tropical Fish Keeper
Re: Endler is nigh?
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2021, 02:16:27 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Thank you both for your help.  Unfortunately Spongebob passed away at lunchtime today.  Post-mortem pictures showed his mouth remained resolutely open even in death.

Offline Littlefish

  • Global Moderator Subscriber
  • Superstar Think Fishy Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4076
  • Likes: 330
  • aka Donna
Re: Endler is nigh?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2021, 04:09:53 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
Sorry to hear that Spongebob passed.

Offline Sue

  • Global Moderator Subscriber
  • Superstar Think Fishy Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9866
  • Likes: 403
Re: Endler is nigh?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2021, 05:35:33 PM »
  • Likes On This Users Post 0
RIP Spongebob  :(

Tags:
 


Assess Tankmates In The Tropical Fish Community Creator


Topics that relate to "Endler is nigh?"

  Subject - Started by Replies Last post
3 Replies
3946 Views
Last post January 14, 2013, 07:10:55 PM
by selhurst sound
14 Replies
8497 Views
Last post April 24, 2013, 03:57:17 PM
by Sue
5 Replies
4243 Views
Last post August 16, 2013, 12:36:27 PM
by DutchyHolland
58 Replies
20573 Views
Last post November 10, 2013, 04:31:09 PM
by jesnon
7 Replies
4360 Views
Last post December 05, 2014, 12:54:30 PM
by Sue
23 Replies
6075 Views
Last post April 18, 2016, 07:01:13 PM
by Littlefish
1 Replies
6588 Views
Last post June 04, 2016, 09:19:49 PM
by Sue

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 
Legal | Contact Follow Think Fish on: