New Quarantine Tank Set Up

Thanks for your advice @fishtales it does make sense so to be absolutely sure I understand, the cut section of filter media that I use to move between the two filters can/will need to stay in the main filter until needed?

[Edit: Some posts missing in this thread such as before and following this one as, regrettably for us given that she was a valued member, former member Fishtales left the forum and deleted most of her posts. Moderator FCMF, 07/02/20.]

Just a word of caution about quarantine tanks. I set up my quarantine tank about 4 weeks ago and took some media from my main tank. Because I don't want to end up doing a fish-in cycle in the QT, I decided to do a fishless cycle hoping it would only take a few days. I'm now on day 30 and the cycle still hasn't finished despite the mature media. Because I know I have low KH I dosed the tank with bicarbonate of soda, and the pH has not crashed so that's not the reason it's so slow.

There are a lot of plants in my main tank, mainly slow growers but I do have a lot of water sprite floating on the surface. I am beginning to suspect that I don't actually have many 'filter' bacteria in the tank because of the water sprite taking up a lot of the ammonia made by the fish. I am going to move some water sprite when I actually buy fish but the light I'll be using on the QT isn't a great one for plants so the water sprite may not do well enough to keep the fish safe.



The warning is - if there are live plants in the tank don't assume using mature media in a QT will be enough.

You're welcome @LeakysLab 

Yes that's correct. Having it in the main filter will keep the colony of beneficial bacteria thriving in that piece of media. Allowing for a straightforward swap into your quarantine filter when you need it.

Beneficial bacteria need a food source and to be kept wet or it dies. It's always a great idea to have a piece of filter media you can easily remove from your established tank whenever you need it.

Wonderful that was easy to understand phew  thank you

I didn't use tank water as there are no bacteria in it. If the main tank has had regular large water changes, it won't be much different from tap water so there's not much point in using water from the main tank.

The problem with water softeners is - what do they add to the water? I know that some types add sodium or sometimes potassium which are bad for fish. But what does the polyphosphate type do? Does it add phosphate?

Unless you know that it adds nothing harmful it is always better to use un-softened water, and if you want soft water fish, dilute hard tap water with RO or deionised water.

Oh it's worth mentioning @LeakysLab to run your quarantine tank at the same temperature as the tank the fish will be transferred to (unless you are increasing/decreasing the temp for treatment). A big change in temperature can shock and stress fish.

Thanks fishtales, I was already thinking about things like lights temp decor etc. I have a understanding that it will be basic as the QT is only a temporary measure. 

Thanks for your comments @fcmf I hadn’t yet researched a hospital tank set up, obviously no one wants to experience it but at least having knowledge sets me up as best as possible. I will invest in some extra media and carbon etc for a rainy day. Depending on space & storage I’ll have left once set up I may look into a separate hospital tank. 

The warning is - if there are live plants in the tank don't assume using mature media in a QT will be enough.

Hi @Sue

Very interesting. I must confess to not relying on the 'mature media' technique for cycling a new tank. When a tank can be cycled 'from scratch' in just six days* using the correct nitrifying bacteria (aka Tetra SafeStart), that's what I do. But your observation is one to remember.

JPC

* including the optimum pH range, temperature, KH, source of ammonia, no plants, etc.

A couple of years ago I forgot to turn the filter and heater back on after a water change. I discovered my mistake 24 hours later. Naturally I panicked and tested the tank water to find zero ammonia and nitrite. Either it was the plants that took up all the ammonia made by the fish during that 24 hours, or there are 'filter' bacteria all over the tank with only a few in the media. Whichever it is, my QT still won't process nitrite fully after a month with mature media.

Hi @Sue

In an established tank, I have read scientific papers that talk about another type of microorganism that establishes itself and, if I remember rightly, takes over from the nitrifying bacteria. These are known as Archaea. I will see what papers I have on these. Having said that, I suspect that the plants were absorbing ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. I know people who rely entirely on plants to 'cycle' their tanks. This is all highly complex stuff but I try to understand it as best I'm able.

As for your QT getting stuck on nitrite oxidation, a few thoughts/questions come to mind:

1 Are you able to measure the phosphate level in your QT? I wrote up some notes last year as an aide memoire for myself to remind me to check some parameters when cycling a tank. I wrote it using RO water as a starting point. But, much of it is relevant when using tap water. I noted that phosphate needed to be maintained at a minimum of 0.2 mg/litre particularly during the breakdown of nitrite. It's all to do with phosphorus being part of something called ATP, which is "often referred to as the "molecular unit of currency" of intracellular energy transfer" (according to Wikipedia).

2 Do you have plenty of aeration in the QT?

3 Most nitrifying bacteria work best at pH 7.4 - 8.0.

4 Optimum temperature is 25 - 30C. I prefer this higher figure.

5 Ensure that nitrifying bacteria are not exposed to light.

That'll do for the moment!

JPC

1 Are you able to measure the phosphate level in your QT? I wrote up some notes last year as an aide memoire for myself to remind me to check some parameters when cycling a tank. I wrote it using RO water as a starting point. But, much of it is relevant when using tap water. I noted that phosphate needed to be maintained at a minimum of 0.2 mg/litre particularly during the breakdown of nitrite. It's all to do with phosphorus being part of something called ATP, which is "often referred to as the "molecular unit of currency" of intracellular energy transfer" (according to Wikipedia).

2 Do you have plenty of aeration in the QT?

3 Most nitrifying bacteria work best at pH 7.4 - 8.0.

4 Optimum temperature is 25 - 30C. I prefer this higher figure.

5 Ensure that nitrifying bacteria are not exposed to light.

That'll do for the moment!

JPC

1. I don't have a phosphate tester and of course it's not in my water quality report.

2. The filter is churning the water round well; so much that I'll have to turn it down once there are fish in there.

3. I have low KH so I've added bicarb for the duration of cycling. The pH is off the top of the 'lower range' tester, ie it is above 7.6, but I don't have a high range tester.

4. The heater is turned up as high as it will go, but the temp is only 27 C. I would like to get it to 30 but I can't.

5. The tank is in the kitchen as far from the window as it will go, leaving only the room light. There is no tank light yet, I'll put that on once I put plants in. And the media is inside a black filter.