My First Tank - 64L Planted

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Offline Catal1N

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My first tank - 64L planted
« on: August 01, 2020, 11:21:30 AM »
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Hello ladies and gents,

Happy to be here. Since I'm new here I thought to to show you guys my set up and maybe get some opinions.

I've decided to go with live plants only and couple of drift woods. I did decent bonsai tree as well.  :-*

I'm pretty sure I have a fish problem (in theory?). So far all of them get along really well.

Tank size is 64L and I have the following fish inside:

3x Platies
1x Zebra Danio
6x Neon Tetras
1x Male Betta
1x Albino Cory
1x Yellow Pleco
About ~20 ish red cherry shrimps


And 2 guests that I didn't really plan in having them:
1x Yoyo loach which was hiding in a plant bought from PetsAtHome
1x Rainbow shark which I got from a friend that couldn't keep the tank anymore (it was my tank or the toilet/lake)


What do you guys think? Will the fish get along or they will start fighting soon? What should I do?

The tank is running on this set up for almost 2 months now. All fish seems to get along well, I can only see the yoyo loach messing about with some fish every now and then. Shark is surprisingly friendly (for now?).

Should I get them more hiding spots? Those pipe caves?

Do I have too many fish? Too many plants?

Any words/advice/recommendation are welcome. :)

I've attached a picture of my tank as well.

Many thanks,
Catalin

Offline Sue

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Re: My first tank - 64L planted
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2020, 12:47:19 PM »
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The tank looks lovely.


But you do have a problem with your stocking I'm afraid. I'll run through your fish list so you can see what I mean.


Platies - fine if you have hard water. With 3, you should have all males or all females or 1 male 2 females.
Zebra danio - these are shoaling fish so you need at least 6 of them
Neon tetras - fine if you have soft water
Male betta - bettas are not community fish and should be kept alone in something like a 25 litre tank
Albino cory - shoaling fish which needs to be in a group of at least 6.
Yellow plec - if it is a bristlenose, fine. If not it will get too big for your tank
Cherry shrimps - fine

Yoyo loach - shoaling fish that needs to be in a group of at leats 6 in a bigger tank at least 120 cm long
Rainbow shark - needs a tank at least 120 cm long, and has a reputation for being nasty.



The real problems are
The fish you didn't plan on - both of them
The shoaling fish that you only have 1 of - cory and danio
The betta, which shouldn't be kept in a community tank.


But if you have soft water, neons, danios, cories and the plec are fine.
If you have hard water, the platies, maybe the danios and plec depending on just how hard


I'm sorry to have to say all this  :(


A little job for you. Look on your water company's website for hardness. If you can find it, look for a number rather than some words - and the unit of measurement as UK water companies often use different units from fish keeping so we need to convert it. (If you can't find it, tell us the name of the water company and we'll see what we can find)
Once we know how hard your water is, we'll be able to talk about what's the best for your fish.




One last thing. Something we have all learned that hard way is not to trust anything a shop worker tells you. So many of them haven't a clue or don't care and will make up anything to get a sale. You have mentioned Pets@Home, and they have just about the worst reputation for rubbish advice.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: My first tank - 64L planted
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2020, 12:55:18 PM »
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Hi there @Catal1N  and welcome to the forum.  :wave:

I noticed that @Sue has responded already.

I'll just add that I've been in a similar position to you fairly early on. I was sold 2 small tanks & unsuitable fish as my first purchase on the advice from a shop. I ended up getting another larger tank to deal with some of the issues because once I had the fish I didn't want to take them back (I was already quite fond of them).

i think you've done great job with your tank, it looks lovely.

Knowing your water parameters is vital to working out what fish will do well in your water.  :)

Offline fcmf

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Re: My first tank - 64L planted
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2020, 01:18:59 PM »
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A warm welcome to the forum, @Catal1N  :wave:

Your tank is really lovely.  :cheers:

The only additions to the advice already given are that:
* platies are livebearers so, if you have a female that happens to have been in the presence of a male at any stage, they'll almost certainly produce fry (sometimes around 40 per batch) - and this can continue every month for 6 months even if no further presence of a male during that time;
* zebra danios need a tank of 90x30cm footprint - source Seriously Fish which is reputable like our Fish Profiles on this site but is more up-to-date in terms of recommendations.

I hope the advice/recommendations by us collectively aren't too disheartening. Have a think about them and we can help with pragmatic options or suggestions going forwards.

Incidentally, your neon tetras are actually cardinal tetras - the way to tell the difference is that the red stripe and the blue stripe on cardinals are the full length of the body, whereas the red stripe on the neons only start midway down the body and go to the tail.  :)

 :fishy1:

Offline Catal1N

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Re: My first tank - 64L planted
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2020, 01:24:44 PM »
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Thank you so much for the replies, Sue and Donna.

Yes, I believe this is a first-timer mess and the people at Pets@Home were... well, let me put it this way, if you ask 5 people you get 5 different advice's. But me being a bit naive and the misses excitement led to this. I will avoid them from this point on.

Right. About the water hardness; I'm doing Tetra strips tests. By hardy water you mean water's total hardness *dH ? If yes, the strip tests say it's 9*dH (ranging 4*dH and 16*dH). Does this answers the water hardness question? Or do I have to look for the water company?

Getting another tank is not an option I'm afraid, at least for the foreseeable future.

Under the circumstances, what fish should I "loose" and maybe get?
And where will I give them? Sell them on FB market? Is taking them back to Pets@Home an option?
I already have chest pain thinking about this, I tend to get attached to any sort of animals.

About the pleco, I belive it is a Lemon Bristlenose Pleco (not 100% sure, I will take a closer look at him tonight and see if I can identify him) - any tips?

I didn't know that about the betta. But it looks chill and never gets in the way of other fish or never have aggressive behaviour.

Knowing that the fish are not happy keeps me wake at night. :(

// Update : Hi @fcmf - thanks for the tips. I will check out the platies regarding the gender. One thing about that, I do see 90% of the times two of them being together and one kind of left aside. Does that mean the two are male&female?

// English is not my mother language so please ignore if I do mistakes of and express myself correctly :D

Offline fcmf

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Re: My first tank - 64L planted
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2020, 01:52:50 PM »
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About the water hardness; I'm doing Tetra strips tests. By hardy water you mean water's total hardness *dH ? If yes, the strip tests say it's 9*dH (ranging 4*dH and 16*dH). Does this answers the water hardness question? Or do I have to look for the water company?
In my experience, test strips are really unreliable for hardness (and PH) but ok for nitrates, nitrite and chlorine. Check your water company's website, input your postcode, and there ought to be info for CaCO3 and German degress hardness.

And where will I give them? Sell them on FB market?
www.aquarist-classifieds.co.uk is a good option - the best by far, as it maximises the chance of them going to a good home.

Getting another tank is not an option I'm afraid, at least for the foreseeable future.
I tend to get attached to any sort of animals.
I empathise wholeheartedly - me too!



Offline Sue

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Re: My first tank - 64L planted
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2020, 02:02:48 PM »
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Strips tend to give a wide range for hardness rather than a specific number. If your water company gives it, that will be the most accurate.

Regarding units, the two used in fish keeping are ppm (also called mg/l CaCO3, calcium carbonate) and dH (also called german degrees). But I've seen water companies use degrees Clark, mg/l calcium (Ca) and even mg/l calcium oxide (CaO). It's worse than cm/inches  ;)


Water companies also use words which usually make the water sound harder than it really is. Until about 9 months ago, my water company gave a number but now they only give words. The number is soft in fish keeping terms but they call it slightly hard.

Offline Catal1N

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Re: My first tank - 64L planted
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2020, 02:30:49 PM »
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I've checked the water. It's provided by Yorkshire Water.

After I've put the post code I got this:

Water hardness type:
Hard
Water hardness average:
100.4mg/l calcium


Water hardness conversion:
100.4 mg/l as calcium = 17.57 English (Clarke) degrees
100.4 mg/l as calcium = 251 mg/l as calcium carbonate
100.4 mg/l as calcium = 14.056 German degrees

Offline fcmf

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Re: My first tank - 64L planted
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2020, 03:39:15 PM »
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Yes, that is hard water.  In fishkeeping, you'll find that the species profiles for various fish are expressed in ppm (same as CaCO3 / calcium carbonate) or dH (same as German degrees), as Sue has also mentioned above. You can have a look at the various species profiles and their required range, plus other requirements, at https://www.seriouslyfish.com/knowledge-base/

I will check out the platies regarding the gender. One thing about that, I do see 90% of the times two of them being together and one kind of left aside. Does that mean the two are male&female?
Not necessarily. Someone with direct experience of keeping platies may be able to advise better than I can - although the appearance of lots of babies will definitively answer that question!

English is not my mother language so please ignore if I do mistakes of and express myself correctly :D
No problems at all - your English is absolutely excellent, but thanks for letting us know, in the unlikely scenario that something gets lost in translation.


Offline Littlefish

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Re: My first tank - 64L planted
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2020, 04:04:32 PM »
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I've kept v. platies previously. The males are usually smaller than the female, but the more obvious way to tell is the shape of the anal fin - pointed on a male and curved on a female. If you google it you'll find plenty of images that show the difference, and you will probably be able to work it out. Or you could take some pictures and post them here and we'll try to identify them for you.
The males can also be quite persistent/aggressive in the presence of a female.

Offline Sue

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Re: My first tank - 64L planted
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2020, 04:42:13 PM »
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Platies are suitable for your tank water.

Female platies can store sperm and use this to have fry for over a year after being in a tank with a male. So even having all female platies, if they've even been in a tank with a male - at the shop for example - there will still be fry.
Male platies chase females constantly. If you have both males and females, you need more females so each female gets a rest while the males chase other females.

Look at the fin on the underneath of the fish right in front of the tail. That's the anal fin. It is shaped like a fan in a female and a rod in a male.




Your water is a bit too hard for neon tetras and cories. What happens to soft water fish in hard water is that they get calcium deposits in their kidneys and don't live as long as they should.
But it is OK for bristlenose plecs (if that's what you have), platies and danios but ideally danios do need a bigger tank.



What to do.


I would definitely advertise the yoyo loach and rainbow shark on aquarist classifieds.

I would also try and rehome the danio and the cory as they need more of them and you don't have room. And see if anyone will take the betta. It is not unknown for a betta to seem perfectly docile then one day he decides he's had enough and kills the other fish. And neon tetras have teeth, and they often bite a betta's fins.

I suggest keeping the neons even though the water is a bit too hard for them. They are good for the tank size. You may find they live quite a while. But when they do die of old age, replace them with fish which like hard water.

Offline fcmf

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Re: My first tank - 64L planted
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2020, 06:21:25 PM »
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Should I get them more hiding spots? Those pipe caves?
Do I have too many fish? Too many plants?
I think your tank looks great. You don't have too many plants - that looks perfect.
I don't think there's any need for pipe caves for the fish you have. Sometimes I find that a cave can encourage timid/weak fish to hide in them and they go into decline, rather than being out with their tankmates. However, if you did decide to get any of these or any other decor to hide in, then I'd bear in mind what size your fish grow to and make sure that there's no possibility of any fish getting stuck in there as they grow - I type from experience!

Offline Matt

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Re: My first tank - 64L planted
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2020, 06:28:29 AM »
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I’m posting late here... but just wanted to add that I also think the tank looks great. It I the same as my first tank. I was fortunate to have received better advice from Pets@Home - they are so hit and miss! The filter is not very well designed - do you have the carbon pad, the algae at pad and the biomedia? Are you replacing them all as per instructions or do you know that this is not truly necessary?? I can talk you through what I did if it helps!

Offline Catal1N

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Re: My first tank - 64L planted
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2020, 10:09:00 AM »
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Thank for the replies, much appreciated.

Sorry I couldn't reply faster.. Being an "essential worker" and doing 60 hours a week for the past six months started to take a toll on me.

I managed to re-home the Shark (I've caught the shark on few occasions chasing and nip fining the betta; I can see some of his fins are missing). Arranged with a local pet shop (pets@home won't take them back) to take the Yoyo Loach, the Danio and the Cory.

After these departures I will be left with 6x Cardinal tetras, 1x betta, 3x platies and 1x Pleco. Would this be okay? Would adding 3-4 guppies be okay? I have a friend that has fry and he said I can have some if I want. If not guppies, what species would it be okay to add?

@Matt  - Yes, I do have the carbon pad, algae pad and the biomedia. I do clean them about two times per week and change them roughly once per month (could be 3 weeks, could be 6 weeks). I would use the advice if you are kind enough. Cheers for that!

Have a good day everyone! Pretty hot today!  :cheers:

Offline fcmf

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Re: My first tank - 64L planted
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2020, 01:23:05 PM »
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Thanks for the update, @Catal1N , and well done on managing to get some of your stock rehomed.  :cheers:

I can only answer very briefly but:
* if there are any females among the platies (or the guppies if you opted to take them too), you will absolutely need to have a plan prepared for the almost-certain eventuality of fry, whether that be more tanks (which is not an option for you, you've said) or an agreement with a local pet/fish shop that they will take them;
* betta - similarly, you'll need a back-up plan of a small tank, if/when the betta can no longer live with the others (eg attacks them, killing spree, etc);
* depending on the type of pleco and its eventual ultimate size, you might be able to add another species eg male endler livebearers (which are slightly less likely to need a shoal than some other species such as x-ray tetras or cherry barbs which would be two species ok for your water hardness but which unfortunately your tank wouldn't have the capacity for a shoal of in addition to the existing stock);
* changing the media, and thereby losing the beneficial bacteria that processes the fishes' waste, can lead to a partial/full cycle occurring all over again (depending on if all removed at once); an alternative is to swap the carbon and algae pads (neither necessary) for some sponge/foam which doesn't need changed at all unless it eventually disintegrates - however, best to do a gradual replacement/changeover of this. [As @Matt has the same filter as you, he can advise more specifically on this.]

Hope that helps.



Offline Matt

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Re: My first tank - 64L planted
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2020, 08:08:48 PM »
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My advice is simple - and echos what fcmf has said the carbon pad is not a useful addition to a tank in the long term, the algawatpad ineffective and quickly degrades. I took the whole lot out and replaced it with a simple block of filter foam. This would have to be done gradually if course - I took out the carbon and algaway pad, introduced half the sponge, waited 2 weeks, then went for full sponge. One single block of sponge is all you need and much easier to clean. Cleaning should be done in old tank water or decholrinated tap water - again so as to no kill off any beneficial bacteria.

Hope that helps!

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