Author Topic: Green Algae (Read 4200 times) 19 replies

Woodsie · « **on:** July 21, 2020, 11:25:32 AM »

Hi All, I hope your well. I have to say I've enjoyed the fact that the pubs are open again and particularly my rugby club, just a shame there's no rugby in sight.

I've been moving on with my, relatively new tank and was about to get more fish and plants but the green algae has struck. Its all over the plants (I now know one isn't a proper aquarium plant) I have and the ornaments. More detail below but I'm wondering if it's normal at this point or I'm over feeding.

The tank is an Aqua Vogue 245 Litres: Depth: 45.0cm | Width: 120.0cm | Height: 55.0cm.
I took delivery 21/5/20. I put in standard gravel but also 4 shallow plastic take away boxes filled with tetra complete substrate and planted a few plants into these boxes at the back and a few smaller plants directly into the gravel at the front. I left it a while then slowly added the fish over a three week period.

The current stock list is 6 black neon tetra, 1 Platty

, 3 Five striped barbs, 1 black widow tetra, 1 bristle nosed pleco, 1 dwarf chain loach

, 2 three spot Gourami, The community creator tool puts this at 28% stock.
The plan is to make up the shortfall where I have shoaling fish then add a couple of rainbow fish

I have been trying to do water changes weekly of about 40 ltrs. I didn't do this at first but have been for last few weeks. I've had a brown algae attack and this has now gone.
I feed weekly with a plant food. I feed the fish flake food daily and alternate each day with a few dried shrimp pellets plus an algae wafer 1 day and some frozen daphnia the next. Maybe that's to much but, the flake all seems to go quickly and the fish get very active when feeding?

I do regular water tests and my Nitrate level has been slowly growing, its at 40ppm (could be higher) now and I did a pwc yesterday. Everything else is low and PH at a steady 8. The water is hard.

So what I'd like to know, if you have the time is;
Is green algae just normal at this stage?
Am I feeding too much? I appreciate that's difficult to know.
Am I doing the right things?
Should I add more plants now.
Would it be a bad idea to add any fish now?

Thanks.

Sue · « **Reply #1 on:** July 21, 2020, 02:35:58 PM »

A few questions:

What is the nitrate level in your tap water?
We should keep nitrate in our tanks under 20 ppm, but that's not easy when there's more than that in tap water. For those of us lucky enough to have low nitrate (mine's under 5 ppm) it is easy to keep it below 20.

How long are the tank lights on for? And does the light give a K rating?
Algae is natural in all tanks, but when it gets out of control something is not in balance. Three things need to be in balance - light, fertiliser and CO2. In tanks without CO2 injection it comes from fish respiration and the breakdown of organic matter in the substrate, and it is what it is. The other two we can control. Lights can be on too long, which causes algae growth. Too much blue light causes algae. Too much or too little fertiliser can cause algae.
Nitrate is fertiliser so if your level is high it will feed algae.

This brings us back again to nitrate. If your tap water level is lower than 20 ppm, several big water changes will get it down to tap level - unless you are using a fertiliser containing nitrate.
Most of your plants seem to be slow growing plants so they won't take up much ammonia made by the fish, so the filter bacteria will turn the majority of the ammonia into nitrate. Something that will help is floating plants. These take up a lot of ammonia. And they screen the lower down plants from the light, also starving the algae on them from light. The fish you have will also appreciate floating plants. They come from waters with a lot of overhanging vegetation so they are not used to bright light.
I have water sprite, Ceratopteris cornuta, in my main tank. I only have algae in the bit near the filter as the water flow keeps that bit of surface free of floating plants.
I would definitely recommend you get some - as soon as possible. Covid-19 has disrupted supply chains and live plants are disappearing from shops and Ebay/Amazon quite quickly.

Woodsie · « **Reply #2 on:** July 21, 2020, 05:16:03 PM »

Thanks Sue.
I have LED lighting 66w but I am afraid I don't know what the k rating is. I have the white lights on from 3 p.m to 8.30pm then a reddish light until 10 pm. So 7 hours in total

Good idea re the nitrate level of my tap water but bad news for me I think. There's is not a lot of difference between the current level of my tank and the tap water. I've attached a pic showing the results side by side, tap is on right. I'm finding it hard to split them. The tank water is a bit redder but not by much. I hadn't realised this up to now as I was not shaking bottle 2 enough. One of your comments, in reply to somebody elses post alerted me to this. I was shaking the bottle but not for that long.

I'll order some of the plants you suggested, but given the level of Nitrate in my water do I have to buy in some RO water? I must admit I don't like the sound of that, do any of the nitrate lowering media e.g. sponges work? Or maybe any of the treatments on offer e.g. Tetra Nitrate Minus or is that the devils work?

The plant nutrient i'm using has an analysis on and says n .....1.5% not sure if that means nitrate.

Sue · « **Reply #3 on:** July 21, 2020, 08:36:18 PM »

You are unlucky in having high tap water nitrate. There are things you can do, but they don't come cheap. Pozzani nitrate filters can be used to prefilter water change water.
RO water can be used to dilute the nitrate level - but it will also dilute the hardness and you may need to add remineralisation salts.
Some people keep a large tub full of floating live plants and allow the water to stand for several days in the tub. The theory is that in the absence of ammonia (no fish so no ammonia) the plants will take up nitrate from the water leaving water with lower nitrate for water changes. But this means having a container full of water hanging round and it will need lighting as well.

I wouldn't bother with Nitrate Minus.

But for the algae issue, 5 1/2 hours light is not too much. I think floating plants will help a lot, they have certainly helped me get rid of algae. The plant leaves that have algae on them probably won't lose the algae but the new leaves growing should not have nearly as much. Then you can clip off the algae-ridden leaves.

Woodsie · « **Reply #4 on:** July 22, 2020, 01:31:12 PM »

Thanks Sue,
I'll get on and order some plants for a start. How many would you recommend for my 245ltr
Also I'm finding a lot more water sprite, Ceratopteris thalictroides would they do as good a job?

Sue · « **Reply #5 on:** July 22, 2020, 03:34:08 PM »

I think thalictroides is OK. I was recommended to get cornuta but a lot of sites say they are the same thing.

I don't have many plants, apart from the water sprite they are all the type grown attached to decor - anubias, java fern, bucephalandra - so I'm not well informed on plants that grow rooted in the substrate.
With water sprite I bought just one pack and it now covers the surface of my tank.

fcmf · « **Reply #6 on:** July 22, 2020, 04:06:07 PM »

Quote from: Woodsie on July 22, 2020, 01:31:12 PM

I'll get on and order some plants for a start. How many would you recommend for my 245ltr?

Personally, I find plants don't do very well when they overlap and so prefer to have just a few dotted here and there, and, even at that, some can be divided to form several plants albeit all of the same time. Some are smaller and some larger than envisaged when I bought them online, so maybe best just to buy a few to start with, then get more later. For context/size, I'm attaching a photo of my 54L/60x30cm tank's plants - the 3* fish-feeding rings contain 1 pot of Amazonian frogbit floating plants, the two long-stalked plants at the back are from 1 hygrophila guanensis, the large plant in the middle is 1 Java Fern (https://www.pro-shrimp.co.uk/aquarium-plants/2740-microsorum-pteropus-java-fern-aquafleur-8715897272479.html) and the one at the front left is 1 crypt 'broad leaves' (https://www.pro-shrimp.co.uk/aquarium-plants/2825-cryptocoryne-undulata-broad-leaves-tropica-5703249110107.html). [As the floating plants were covering some of the plants beneath, I moved a couple of ailing plants into the quarantine tank, where I'm bulking up their root tabs to enhance their growth without worry about copper overdose for my aquarium snails in the main tank.]
[* I've had to chop the 3rd one out of the photo in order to shrink the size of the photo to get it to attach.]
Other online plant-sellers, besides Pro-Shrimp, are Aqua Essentials and Aquarium Gardens. All 3 have a good reputation, and there are no doubt others too.

Woodsie · « **Reply #7 on:** July 22, 2020, 09:30:42 PM »

OK, thanks both. I've ordered 5 water sprite, Ceratopteris cornuta from Pro Shrimp. They were the only ones that had that actual plant and 5 was min order. I'll Try that and see how it goes.
If they get too mcuh I can plant a couple.
The Nitrate Minus has loads of good reviews on Amazon so I might have to try it if the plants don't work.
Thanks again, I really appreciate it.

Sue · « **Reply #8 on:** July 23, 2020, 10:21:12 AM »

Bear in mind that the fewer chemicals we add to a tank the better. Everything that goes into a tank ends up inside the fish.
The general opinion of most fishkeepers is that it cannot work as they claim. There are micro-organisms that break down nitrate but they need anaerobic conditions - that is, no oxygen. Virtually every area in our tanks is full of oxygen.

I don't have high nitrate in my tap water (it's between 0 and 5 pp and nearer the 0 colour) but I have heard good reports about API Nitra-Zorb. I have read of someone who has filled an old API Tap Water Filter cartridge with Nitra-Zorb and uses it to prefilter water for a water change. It can be recharged with salt. I would give that a try before NitrateMinus.

Woodsie · « **Reply #9 on:** July 27, 2020, 10:48:43 AM »

Thanks all. My plants should arrive tomorrow so i will give them a chance to have an effect before I try anything else.
I do have a spare pump and filter so I could try the API Nitra-Zorb option if the plants don't get me low enough.
Is it still worth doing weekly water changes when my tap water is so high in nitrates? I guess it is.

Woodsie · « **Reply #10 on:** July 27, 2020, 01:40:54 PM »

I've been thinking about my high nitrate tap water problem. Moving house is a consideration but the other half is not keen. So for now I shall be trying the suggestions you have kindly given me.

It has occured to me that I may be getting an artificially high reading. I say this as the first 5 ir so tests I did gave an acceptable nitrate reading. I then saw a tip from Sue, in another post about how important it was to really give bottle 2 a good shake, and not just the quick one I had been giving it.
I started doing this and low and behold the numbers went up. But, now i'm wondering if the bottle is safe. i.e. by using it without properly mixing all the ingredients first will I have altered the balance of ingredients so I have an excess of whatever it is that needs a good shake.
Does that make any sense to you?
I'm thinking I'll get some nitrate test strips to get another opinion, does that sound sensible?

Littlefish · « **Reply #11 on:** July 27, 2020, 02:42:34 PM »

In general the test strips aren't as accurate as the liquid tests.
There are liquid tests available just for nitrate, so you might want to look at getting one of those if you are concerned that you may have caused problems with your master test kit reagents.

If it's any consolation I also have high nitrates in my tap water 15.2dH, which is slightly better than when I was in Cambridge (17dH). I ended up using Pozzani filters. It takes a bit of time to run the water, and I go through quite a few filters due to the number & size of tanks, but it does get the nitrates down to 0.

fcmf · « **Reply #12 on:** July 27, 2020, 03:38:57 PM »

I wouldn't get nitrate test strips for use on their own. However, I have actually found them quite accurate*, albeit they have large gaps between each level. Therefore, I have found them useful for the purposes of cross-checking with a liquid-based test kit. On that basis, it might be worth your while buying some (JBL or Tetra are much easier to read than ITS Europe) to see how they compare with your existing liquid-based test kit, to see if there's commonality in the readings. If there is, then you could continue to use both of them.
[* the 5-/6-in-1 test strips accurate for nitrite, nitrate and chlorine; much less accurate for PH, GH and KH]

If it turns out, on the basis of the above, that you think your liquid-based test kit is actually awry, then I'd purchase a new liquid-based test kit, and continue to use the test strips and it to cross-check against one another. I'm really pleased with my JBL liquid-based test kit - I find it very easy to read (certainly in comparison with the previous Waterlife ones I had).

Woodsie · « **Reply #13 on:** July 28, 2020, 07:19:27 PM »

Right, time for an update, if you can bear it.
I got some strips and they support the bottle test so that little ray of hope has gone. I have high Nitrate tap water and therefore tank water.

So, I've added a few shrimp and a couple of snails to eat some of the algae and the Ceratopteris-cornuta came today.
I've attached one to a root so it floats from half way up the tank to the top and let two just float. I expected them to float vertically i.e. with the roots down and the leaves at the top but they just lie flat. Is that how they should be?
I've added a little weight to one so it does float vertically, Is that OK?
I'm going to plant the last one in the substrate and see how they all go.
Do tell me if I'm doing anything wrong though.
If this doesn't work I. looking at filters, which sounds a bit of a faff. It has occured to me that I've always had green algae but not tot his ectent so tio may still be settling down.,

Sue · « **Reply #14 on:** July 28, 2020, 07:30:35 PM »

My ceratopteris leaves float flat on the water surface with the roots hanging down under the leaves. But yours is new and presumably squashed in packaging of some sort so it may take a little while before they regain there normal shape.

Littlefish · « **Reply #15 on:** July 28, 2020, 07:37:52 PM »

My tap water nitrates are around 35mg/L, and I've always struggled with those levels. I found that lots of plants helped, but not enough to shift the levels down even to the next colour/reading on the master test kit chart.
Something more effective is probably required, whether that's a pre-filter or something for your tank.
I've only really used Pozzani filters when running mains water for my tanks, but I'm sure that there are other options.

Woodsie · « **Reply #16 on:** July 28, 2020, 08:08:38 PM »

I did start looking into a pozzani filter to filter my water changes as it looked a bit less faff than some other options. I'm not at all sure though.
Is there any value in considering collecting rain water. Presumably that wont have the same Nitrate Value and we already have a butt connected to a down pipe.

Littlefish · « **Reply #17 on:** July 28, 2020, 08:42:06 PM »

I have heard of people collecting rain water, but I wouldn't be comfortable with the rain water in this area as I don't know if the amount of traffic might cause pollution issues.
I think rain water is also very soft, so you'd probably be adjusting the water hardness & pH too.
Perhaps one of the others has more experience with this and can help.

Matt · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2020, 09:29:40 PM »

Afraid I can’t help re rain water BUT looking at your lighting schedule I suspect that the long period of red only light may not be helping re algae. Plants are a more complex organism than algae and need stronger and natural colour light ( not just one part of the spectrum) to grow properly. Algae can easily take advantage of lighting levels are low or just one colour is present. I’d recommend keeping the same duration but using the main white lights throughout.

jaypeecee · « **Reply #19 on:** August 04, 2020, 07:43:07 PM »

Quote from: Sue on July 21, 2020, 02:35:58 PM

Something that will help is floating plants. These take up a lot of ammonia.

Excellent suggestion! As floating plants have access to atmospheric CO2, their growth rate is not limited by a source of carbon - often a problem with submerged plants unless CO2 is injected via a diffuser into the tank water. Floating plants should greatly reduce nitrate in the water.

BTW, folks, I'm just looking around before my membership expires sometime in September. Hope you are all well.

JPC

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Green Algae

Green Algae

Author Topic: Green Algae (Read 4200 times) 19 replies

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