Water Quality Readings - Confusion!

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Offline MendelJ

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Water quality readings - confusion!
« on: August 04, 2019, 03:01:39 PM »
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Hello everyone,

I am very confused about water quality and how to understand what readings I should use.
My water supplier gives values of 215 mg/l CaCO3, 15 degrees clark, 13 degrees German.

I have just tested the aquarium water using the NT Labs Aquarium lab (all drop tests) and have gotten a KH of 5 and GH of 7. Plus I used a TDS meter that my partner had and it gave a reading of 165 ppm.

I know water values can change with standing, temperature etc. My tank has plant soil covered with black sand, plus bog wood and medium levels of live plants. I currently have 2 honey gouramis and 12 celestial pearl danios. They have been in for a total of two weeks, looking well, have settled and now used to seeing me so that’s good  :D

My aim is to find out what water levels to use when choosing fish?!
And is there a better way to accurately assess your water quality, something the pros rely on and has been proven time and again?

Thanks for all your help - I know this is a common topic but I could quite figure it out, despite scrolling through pages of queries!
 :fishy1: :fishy1: :fishy1: :fishy1: :fishy1:

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Celestial Pearl Danio (2) - Honey Gourami (2) - Japonica Shrimp (9) - Sterbas Cory (9) - Rummy Nose Tetra (8) - Axelrods Rasbora (17) - Bolivian Ram (5) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline fcmf

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Re: Water quality readings - confusion!
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2019, 12:31:23 AM »
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You might find these articles helpful:
https://www.thinkfish.co.uk/calculators/hardness-conversion
https://www.thinkfish.co.uk/article/testing-for-ph-and-hardness-in-an-aquarium

Looking at the up-to-date Seriously Fish website's species profiles for your fish as they refer to definitive numbers, the honey gourami require being in the range of 36-268 ppm / CaCO3, while the CPDs require being in the range 90-268. It's ideal if the reading is in the middle of the range but your 215 is still within that range as is the 13 dGH - plus the somewhat stranger lower readings of your test kit (7 dGH) and TDS meter (165 ppm / CaCO3).

What brand of plant soil and black sand do you have? It's possible that they might be lowering the hardness.
What readings do you get when testing the water from the tap immediately and 24 hours after letting the tap water sit in a container before testing it?

Offline MendelJ

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Re: Water quality readings - confusion!
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2019, 10:16:17 AM »
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Thank you @fcmf

So I testing some water that had been standing for 24h and some tap water....both came out pretty much exactly as the water company said. Then I looked up sand (100% inert) and soil...not so inert! I thought I had bought a “normal” brand but the soil is JBL proScape plant soil and, sure enough, in the information it states that it will make water slightly acidic (I expected this) as well as lower the KH and make the water slightly softer.

So thank you for giving me the tools to solve this! And I’ll put it down to noob errors   ;)

 :isay: Now the question remains...
If it is the soil making the water softer, then should  I keep fish that prefer the actual water conditions of the tank? I think yes?
And considering the effect of the soil, will water changes from my tap water be shocking the fish?

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Celestial Pearl Danio (2) - Honey Gourami (2) - Japonica Shrimp (9) - Sterbas Cory (9) - Rummy Nose Tetra (8) - Axelrods Rasbora (17) - Bolivian Ram (5) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline jaypeecee

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Re: Water quality readings - confusion!
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2019, 10:41:36 AM »
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Hi,

Having just done a quick calculation, I reckon that your TDS meter is giving incorrect results. I don't wish to be rude but is it one of the many, low-cost meters that cost a few quid on ebay? The better, reliable ones are made by companies like Hanna and Extech. Which one do you have? Without going into too much detail, I would be inclined to trust your NT Labs test results; these figures correlate very well with those from your water supplier.

JPC

Offline MendelJ

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Re: Water quality readings - confusion!
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2019, 10:49:59 AM »
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Hi @jaypeecee

It’s a Hanna DiST 1 although it looks like an older one (I found it in my partner’s tools) so may not have been calibrated for a while. The 24 hour standing tap water came out at 213 and fresh tap water at 196 which gave me a bit of reassurance as the water company quote 215 mg/l CaCO3...I was assuming these are the same measurements but not sure what else TDS might measure besides the CaCO3...

What calculation are you thinking of? I’m definitely up for learning about what all these figures are and how they relate to each other, so I can go beyond simply knowing the “right” numbers.

Thanks for responding!

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Celestial Pearl Danio (2) - Honey Gourami (2) - Japonica Shrimp (9) - Sterbas Cory (9) - Rummy Nose Tetra (8) - Axelrods Rasbora (17) - Bolivian Ram (5) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline jaypeecee

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Re: Water quality readings - confusion!
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2019, 01:37:26 PM »
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Hi,

I have to confess to having made a mistake. :-[ When I was reading your original post, I thought you were testing your tap water. But you clearly state that it was your aquarium water. Apologies!

FYI, I use a Hanna DiST WP 3.

When you say "I was assuming these are the same measurements but not sure what else TDS might measure besides the CaCO3...", I can help there. TDS meters actually measure electrical conductivity. They don't directly measure TDS (Total Dissolved Solids). My Hanna DiST WP 3 reads out in electrical conductivity units - microSiemens/cm. To convert between conductivity and TDS, see:

http://www.astisensor.com/Conductivity_to_TDS_Conversion_Table.pdf. Use the TDS442 column and see the footnotes on this table.

Aquarium water starts out as tap water, remineralized RO water, rain water, well water, etc. To this, we add a cocktail of fertilizers, substrate material, fish waste, etc. Invariably these increase conductivity/TDS. But these figures could also decrease.

JPC

Offline jaypeecee

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Re: Water quality readings - confusion!
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2019, 02:17:10 PM »
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Now the question remains...
If it is the soil making the water softer, then should  I keep fish that prefer the actual water conditions of the tank? I think yes?
And considering the effect of the soil, will water changes from my tap water be shocking the fish?

Hi,

It is not difficult to adjust water KH and GH independently of each other. A KH of 5dH (German degrees hardness) will provide reasonable buffering against pH changes. A GH of 7dH is considered to be "slightly hard". Refer to https://www.seriouslyfish.com for choices of suitable fish.

JPC

Offline MendelJ

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Re: Water quality readings - confusion!
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2019, 12:36:01 PM »
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@jaypeecee no worries! And thanks for the extra info. I’ve never had any fish before and I’m finding one of the most amazing things in fishkeeping is that it’s not all about the fish...it’s a whole new world of chemistry, botany, biology and more. So cool to be learning like this again! Thanks for your help   ;D

Still a little concerned about the difference in the tap water and aquarium water for when I do water changes. Will this possibly shock the fish? I know temperature and pH do but will a big difference in hardness do the same?!

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Celestial Pearl Danio (2) - Honey Gourami (2) - Japonica Shrimp (9) - Sterbas Cory (9) - Rummy Nose Tetra (8) - Axelrods Rasbora (17) - Bolivian Ram (5) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline jaypeecee

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Re: Water quality readings - confusion!
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2019, 08:41:16 AM »
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@jaypeecee no worries! And thanks for the extra info. I’ve never had any fish before and I’m finding one of the most amazing things in fishkeeping is that it’s not all about the fish...it’s a whole new world of chemistry, botany, biology and more. So cool to be learning like this again! Thanks for your help   ;D

Still a little concerned about the difference in the tap water and aquarium water for when I do water changes. Will this possibly shock the fish? I know temperature and pH do but will a big difference in hardness do the same?!

Hi,

Yes, it's exciting, isn't it? My background is rooted in science but not the life sciences. So I love making new discoveries about the science side of fishkeeping. There is a lot to learn but just go at a pace that suits you.

When doing water changes, it is possible to shock/stress the fish. And, of course, the bigger the water change, the greater the risk of this happening. A fish's osmoregulatory system balances electrolytes between that of the water with that in the fish's body. Examples of electrolytes are - sodium, calcium and magnesium. When conditions disturb the balance of electrolytes, the fish may be under stress. And this may result in an infection. In the first instance, a quick comparison (with an EC/TDS meter) of the tank and tap water is very helpful. Then, follow up with KH and GH measurements.

Could you please summarize the difference in EC/TDS, KH and GH measurements between tap and aquarium water that you are currently using?

JPC

 


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