Re: Fish Stocking Calculators

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Offline Diz1

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Re: fish stocking calculators
« on: December 01, 2014, 02:39:15 PM »
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Afternoon everyone!

I've always used the community creator on this website to calculate stocking levels for my tank.
However, I was nosying around the web today and came across Aqadvisor. I decided to give it a go and was a bit surprised to see that the percentage levels of stocking for my tank (this is actual stock plus a few attempts at adding fish that I like in order to see what the stocking levels would be like for different community scenarios) are much higher on Aqadvisor than they are here. Just typing in a random selection of fish gave me 63% on Aqadvisor compared to 43% here.

I'm very happy to continue using this site to guide my stocking level plans for my tank (especially as the community creator is much more generous than Aqadvisor), but I was wondering why they are so different – 20% could add up to a fair few fish! Obviously, I want to have happy and healthy fish, but was just wondering if anyone could tell me why the 2 sites are so different. ???

Offline Sue

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Re: fish stocking calculators
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2014, 02:55:34 PM »
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The CC on here uses 5 types of filter, and for oversized it must be rated for double the volume of the tank it is in. Aqadvisor requires the brand and model of filter (or at least it did when I looked at it a few years ago) and uses the tank size the manufacturer says it is rated for.
The CC uses the size of the fish but weights it according to the fish shape (torpedo shape had less bioload than plate shaped fish of the same length) and the fish's known 'messiness' ie fish that poo at lot like plecs are rated with a bigger bioload than a fish that doesn't poo much of the same size and shape. But I have no idea what formula aqadvisor uses for the fish side of things. Is there anything on the blurb on that site about how they calculate stocking levels? I've just tried googling the site and get a 'server not found' message  ???


All fish calculators come in for criticism, but aqadvisor comes in for more than any other. One other forum I'm a member of has even banned mention of its name - it is included in the swear filter!
The CC also comes in for criticism for being over generous.

Offline Diz1

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Re: fish stocking calculators
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2014, 02:59:39 PM »
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Thanks Sue,

No, I couldn't find any information on formulae used to calculate stocking levels. Also, it doesn't indicate what levels are acceptable, unlike the traffic light system on the CC.

When you say that the CC has been criticised for being over-generous, is that a criticism you'd accept as being true, or do you think the CC is safe enough to use as a guide providing you stay within the green or amber zones?

Offline Sue

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Re: fish stocking calculators
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2014, 04:21:47 PM »
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For a mature tank, you are probably safe going higher than that, into the red zone. By the time the tank is mature people usually know what they are doing. The danger of calculators is for people just starting out, got their first tank and probably not cycled it, and say oooh I can get all those fish and rush out and get them all at once. And probably don't see the warning in the CC about the lower stocking levels for new tanks.

Basically, I would say if the tank is mature and the owner got some experience under their belt, they can probably stock up to 100%. They know that water changes are important with higher stocking levels and that they do need to make sure their nitrate isn't building up too high.
But for new starters, even those who have fishless cycled, I would say stay in the green for a few months. A fishlessly cycled tank isn't a mature tank. Once the tank has been running at least six months, then go into the orange, then into the red after a year if there have been no problems.


But that would still have the critics screaming noooooo, you must never ever have more than 1 inch per gallon.

Offline Diz1

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Re: fish stocking calculators
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2014, 04:34:20 PM »
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Great, that's just the advice I needed! Once again, thanks for your expertise! ;D

Offline Wild Rover

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Re: fish stocking calculators
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2014, 10:41:47 PM »
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Isn't there a bit of a grey area re oversized Sue. I have a Fluval 306 external (for 300 litre) in a 200 litre tank so presumably the level would be between the external and the oversized external. Hope so as I will be pushing 90% for a standard external.  :o

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Dwarf Rainbowfish (24) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: fish stocking calculators
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2014, 09:06:38 AM »
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The CC does actually state
Quote
An 'oversized' filter means one which is rated for at least twice the tank's volume, such as a 200 litre filter in a 100 litre tank

If your filter is rated for 50% more than the tank rather than 100%, maybe you should halve the extra of oversized compared to standard?

The filter in my main tank is rated for 240 litres. When it was in my old 125 litre, I did class that as oversized even if it wasn't quite. The same filter is now in my 180 litre which is only 25% over so I have to use standard internal now.

Offline Richard W

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Re: fish stocking calculators
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2014, 10:30:18 AM »
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i must admit to being sceptical about manufacturer's claims about filters and the size of tank they are suitable for. It seems to be often based entirely on throughput (litres/hour) but I have filters allegedly suited to the same size of tank yet one has as much as four times the amount of media as the other. difficult to believe both are equally efficient.

Mind you (as some of you may have noticed) I'm pretty sceptical about many things, including stocking calculators. Has anyone ever actually done any proper research on this? Everybody seems to start from the "old" one inch per gallon rule, but where did this come from in the first place? A one to one ratio seems very convenient and unlikely and I suspect it was just pulled out of thin air. The Thinkfish article on stocking levels is much more informative than applying a simple formula.

Offline Sue

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Re: fish stocking calculators
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2014, 10:47:02 AM »
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According to that article, the oldest guideline was based on a number of fish for a given surface area. The rule was devised before filters were used and the oxygen level of the water in the tank was limited to the gas exchange at the stationary surface. The surface area guideline was really an oxygen content of the water guideline. And according to the article, the 1 inch per gallon came about after confusing the 1 inch per 12 square inches, and 1 inch per gall of cold water fish. The article claims that it should be 2 inches of tropical fish per gall.


The diehard believers of 1 inch per gall also fail to quote the guideline fully. It should read
"one inch of cylindrical fish that grow no larger than 3 inches per gallon"
The 'rule' never has applied to fish longer than 3 inches or to anything but torpedo shaped fish. But that doesn't stop them using the guideline for angelfish and discus!

In my opinion, the main use of calculators is to stop newcomers going mad and overstocking. A newcomer should stick to the 'green' limit of the CC for several months. Once they get a better feel for the behaviour of their fish and how to monitor the tank, it is safe for them to exceed this.

Offline fishcake76

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Re: fish stocking calculators
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2014, 01:52:28 PM »
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Hi all,

I've been wondering about stocking levels for my 54 litre tank the CC says I am stocked to 170%!!!!!!!!!  :yikes:

I have 9 glow lights, 2 peppered corys, 1 otto and 3 phantoms. I am currently running two filters in the tank as I am trying to keep three filters running until i decide what to do with Stans tank. So i have a 0-100 litre , 340 l/h, 5w, sponge media filter and a 0-25 litre, 176l/h, 3.3w cartridge filter running.

I was hoping to get a couple more ottos and a few more female phantoms as i only have 1 female and 2 males.  They all seem quite happy. The female phantom guards a certain area of the tank and anything new I put in (like bits of greenery for them to munch).

In my opinion I think i could add the ottos and it wouldn't upset the balance too much but I am worried about adding more phantoms, however I am also concerned about my girly being harassed by two males!!!!

What do you all think?

Also, I found this calculator which I thought was good. But I probably don't know what I am talking about!!!  ;D

FC76

Offline Sue

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Re: fish stocking calculators
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2014, 02:39:16 PM »
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I've just entered those fish (3 black phantoms, 9 glowlights, 1 oto and substituting 4 panda cories for the 2 peppered) and that comes to 94% with standard internal filter or 79% with oversized  ???

If you were to part-ex the cories for 3 more otos and 3 more phantoms that would give you just over 100% for standard internal or 89% for oversized. If one of the filters is rated for up to 100 litre tanks, that alone does make the filtration almost oversized (oversized = rated for a tank double the volume).
The reason I suggest rehoming the cories is that peppered are quite big fish and would do better in a bigger tank, and they need to be in a shoal but you don't have room for any more. It would also allow you the extra phantoms.

Offline fishcake76

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Re: fish stocking calculators
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2014, 06:38:48 PM »
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Right I've had a little fiddle with the CC and I have worked out what I did wrong the first time - I put my tank width in where I should have put the volume!!!! ::)

So, I have now worked out that I can keep my corys ( I know they should be in a bigger group and a bigger tank but they do seem perfectly content - put it this way, they are the ONLY fish I've had no problems with!!!!!) , I can keep everyone else and get more ottos and black phantoms if I return 3 of my Glow lights.

This is what I shall do!!!!

Now hit me with all the reasons why I shouldn't!!!!  :D

FC76

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