Author Topic: Planning for a 125L tank (Read 7463 times) 33 replies

Fishbeard · « **on:** October 25, 2020, 11:01:44 PM »

So, in light of my recent struggles with algae, and my general frustrations with the hobby, I've decided to take a somewhat drastic step and buy a larger tank. My current tank has to go in the conservatory because I don't have any furniture strong enough to take the weight, other than the massive sideboard in the conservatory, which is too big to go in any other room. The tank's also a bit small, which limits what I can keep in it, so I have now bought a Fluval Roma 125L tank to go in the front room, where it will get a lot less sunlight. It's also over double the size of my current tank, and that means... more fish!

My water is 6.64°D (118ppm) and the pH is about 7.6. My tap water has nitrates in the 20-40 region.

I'll close down my current tank and move its inhabitants across once the 125L is up and running. I would assume that I'm going to have to fully cycle the new tank first, and I can't just transfer everything from the old tank across to make life easier?

My current tank contains:
7 panda corydoras
1 cockatoo apisto (m)
10 amano shrimp

I would like to add a clown pleco. I think they're more interesting than the bristlenose from when I've seen them in pet shops, but the community creator here tells me that they're too big to be mixed with the panda corys. It doesn't say the same for the bristlenose plec, even though that grows to be bigger than the clown. Can someone explain what the problem would be with the clown pleco? From the profile descriptions here and elsewhere, I can't see anything that stands out as a reason for it to be problematic.

I would also like a group of shoaling fish to inhabit the upper regions of the tank. Some sort of tetra is the obvious choice, but I went for the rummy nose first and then got told that it's also too small to co-exist with the clown pleco, then my second choice was the glowlight and I got the same message! Again, my question about the clown pleco comes up, are they really so problematic? I like the clown pleco enough that I'd choose other shoaling fish that were compatible, so if anyone's got a good suggestion for a shoal that'd work fine with my tank, I'm all ears.

Then there's the matter of the cockatoo. He was bought with a female mate, but she died and he's been along ever since. He doesn't appear to be unhappy, he's moving around fine, eating well and he's a good colour, so should I bring in another female, or can I leave him on his own?

With my current bunch, a clown plec and a dozen rummy nose tetras, I'm stocked to about 55% so there's still room for more. Does anyone have any suggestions for compatible fish, or should I be looking to make the shoal bigger, and go up to 16-20 fish?

Sue · « **Reply #1 on:** October 26, 2020, 10:58:57 AM »

Quote from: Fishbeard on October 25, 2020, 11:01:44 PM

I'll close down my current tank and move its inhabitants across once the 125L is up and running. I would assume that I'm going to have to fully cycle the new tank first, and I can't just transfer everything from the old tank across to make life easier?

You can do one of two things.
1. Fishless cycle the new tank, then move everything over
2. Move the fish and the filter at the same time - and as much as possible from the old tank.

With option 2, either move the entire old filter and run the old and new filters together for several weeks, or persuade the media from the old filter to fit inside the new filter. With this method, you would need to test ammonia and nitrite every day as you will lose the bacteria on every surface that's not moved over - the tank walls, for example. Moving the substrate (washed with warm dechlorinated water) and all the decor will also help to transfer bacteria.
This is what I did when I upgraded from 125 to 180 litres, though in my case the filter was already rated for over 180 litres so I just used the same one.
With this method, you can't get more fish immediately, you need to wait a couple of weeks until you know that the tank has settled and the water levels are good.

The fish species index says clown plec, but the actual heading is "dwarf plec/Plekoltia" which covers a number of species. It may be that the CC was programmed for the largest of these species. If you look at planetcatfish (the plec experts) they say the clown ~~loach~~ plec can be kept with "a school of small tetras"

I would definitely increase the numbers of panda cories to at least 10 and get at least 10 of the tetra that you want.

Cockatoo cichlids are harem breeders so you could have two females in the new tank. You would need 3 caves (made of whatever you like) spaced evenly on the tank floor - the usual recommendation is one per female plus one extra to give them some choice.

Re the CC, something occurs to me. Which type of filter came with the new tank, a U series internal or an external? The CC allows more fish if the filter is an external, but this is not really true. We managed to get the extra amount of fish reduced, but in reality the type or size of filter does not affect the number of fish you can have as long as it is adequate for the tank size. Always use 'internal' for filter type in the CC.

Edited for typo

Fishbeard · « **Reply #2 on:** October 26, 2020, 05:35:35 PM »

Hi Sue,

Thanks for your reply!

The tank comes with the U3 internal filter, and I'll use that when playing around with the creatort on here.

It seems like the easiest option is to move the fish, filter, sand, plants and everything else. Might I ask why the sand needs to be washed with warm dechlorinated water first? If it's already in my tank, shouldn't it already be suitable? My only concern was to try to get the fish out before I started churning up the sand, so as not to disturb any nitrogen pockets that may have formed.

It's good news on the clown plec/dwarf plec/plekoltia front, then! I'll increase the cories by a bit (assuming they don't beat me to it) and then think about shoals.

With the cichlids, I presume the caves are purely for breeding - the females won't take up permanent residence in them, will they? If I'm not interested in breeding them, do I still need to provide caves? I've never really thought about it before - the cories are the only fish I've ever bred and that was done without any encouragement or assistance on my part! Do the females need dedicated caves, or will they share with other fish? I've got a fake rock/cave thing that the shrimp live in at present - would that count as one of the three?

Sue · « **Reply #3 on:** October 26, 2020, 08:16:52 PM »

Quote from: Fishbeard on October 26, 2020, 05:35:35 PM

It seems like the easiest option is to move the fish, filter, sand, plants and everything else. Might I ask why the sand needs to be washed with warm dechlorinated water first? If it's already in my tank, shouldn't it already be suitable? My only concern was to try to get the fish out before I started churning up the sand, so as not to disturb any nitrogen pockets that may have formed.

The sand will not be clean. You will be surprised at the amount of muck in it - fine brown particles.
I recently added more sand to my tank, but I wanted the new sand underneath and the old sand, with all its micro-organisms, on top. So I sucked all the old sand out with the siphon tube being very careful not to stir it up too much. The water on top of the sand in the bucket was dark brown and i had to wash it before I could put it back in the tank

Yours may not be as disgusting as mine, but be prepared just in case. I used dechlorinated water to wash it so i didn't kill the micro-organisms and warm water as my tap water is pretty cold.

Sand is easier than gravel because it can be removed by sucking it out rather than scooping it out. My sand had got thin over the years with bits being lost at each water change so I don't think mine was deep enough for gas pockets. But I have read about people with deep sand losing fish when they removed it with fish still in the tank.
But as you'll be taking the fish out of the tank anyway, it is safer to remove the fish then remove the substrate.

Quote

With the cichlids, I presume the caves are purely for breeding - the females won't take up permanent residence in them, will they? If I'm not interested in breeding them, do I still need to provide caves? I've never really thought about it before - the cories are the only fish I've ever bred and that was done without any encouragement or assistance on my part! Do the females need dedicated caves, or will they share with other fish? I've got a fake rock/cave thing that the shrimp live in at present - would that count as one of the three?

Fish that breed in caves expect some sort of cave type things in their environment whether they use them or not, and I like to give fish things they expect. Even if they do breed, between the cories and a plec any eggs won't last long.
Caves can be anything from a piece of wood with a hole in it, to a slate cave to a plastic fake log. Anything that looks vaguely cave shaped.

Fishbeard · « **Reply #4 on:** October 29, 2020, 10:56:57 PM »

So the tank is arriving tomorrow. I'll get it into place and then look at doing the great migration on Saturday when I've got a bit more time.

Are we still fine using children's play sand? I know that's what I used the last time I set up a tank, but things move quickly in this hobby and what was fine a few years ago sometimes isn't fine any more. It's just a LOT cheaper than buying sand from an LFS. Though I'll likely visit one over the weekend to size up some more roots/bogwood and cave-type things.

With regards to introducing new fish, I'm looking at the following new fish:

1x Clown Plec
3x Panda Cory
2x Cockatoo Apisto (F)
10x Unspecified schooling fish

How quickly can I introduce the above without overloading the tank? Is there a formula I can work with? I feel like I would be better off introducing the schooling fish all at the same time, but if I was to add 10 tetra/barbs at the same time, would this be too many?

Sue · « **Reply #5 on:** October 30, 2020, 09:24:42 AM »

Play sand is still fine

You currently have 7 panda cories, 1 apisto male and shrimps. You are correct that it is important to add the whole shoal at the same time, but that would be more than doubling the bioload. However.....

Do you plan on live plants in the new tank? Even if you don't want plants rooted in the substrate, the fish you have and want appreciate cover over their heads so can I suggest you get some floating plants as soon as possible and once they start growing well, then get your new fish. Salvinia or water sprite or Amazon frogbit or water lettuce or even floating stems of elodea or hornwort will take up a lot of ammonia made by fish. I recently quarantined 12 kuhli loaches in a 25 litre tank with no mature media, just 2 bunches of elodea and 2 large water sprite plants from my main tank and saw no trace of ammonia or nitrite.
But be careful. You have shrimps. Since 2012 all plants imported from outside the EU have to be treated with snail killer and these kill shrimps too. Make sure any plants you buy are shrimp safe. Sites such as ProShrimp sell shrimp safe plants, as does k2aqua on Ebay. Read the small print

Fishbeard · « **Reply #6 on:** October 30, 2020, 12:18:10 PM »

I've already got two java ferns, two anubias plants, three bunches (approx. 10 stalks each) of elodea and some amazon frogbit, along with about half a dozen moss balls from the 54L tank that I'm closing and replacing with this tank.

I'll look to get some more floating plants as I'm going to the LFS to get some more bits anyway. I'll make sure their plants are shrimp-friendly.

Good news on the play sand. I can get a 15kg bag from Argos for £5 which is more than I'll ever need!

Sue · « **Reply #7 on:** October 30, 2020, 01:51:29 PM »

You are off to a good start with all those plants

A few more floating plants will help - because they are on the surface they are near the lights and can get CO2 from the air so they are fast growing and can take up a lot of ammonia.

Fishbeard · « **Reply #8 on:** October 31, 2020, 11:00:54 AM »

So the cabinet is built (when I moved a couple of months back I swore I wouldn't touch flat pack furniture until 2021 at least... how wrong I was!) and in the living room. The tank's been given a quick wipe and is sat on top of it. I didn't get to the LFS yesterday, so I'll be braving the wind and the rain this morning for floating plants, backing paper, more wood and a cave. Then I can get on with everything this afternoon.

The tank came with a Fluval U3 internal filter. It's got three sections, two with sponges and carbon filters, and a middle section that holds the Fluval Biomax, and empty space for a "Clearmax" pad. I don't have one, but my current tank just has a sponge filter - if I can fit that into the gap for the Clearmax pad, with the Biomax chunks above it, similarly to the picture below, would this be good enough? Rather than running my old filter and the U3, could I just run the U3 in this way?

Sue · « **Reply #9 on:** October 31, 2020, 11:10:48 AM »

If you can get all the old media in there, that's fine. As you don't need the clearmax pad, using the space for the old sponge is perfect. I would leave it in there permanently.

You don't need the poly-carbon pads either. The carbon will get full and stop working - but you don't actually need carbon either. As you are just setting the tank up, I would replace the poly carbon pads with plain filter wool. They will get clogged and need replacing, but it is reasonably cheap to buy a length of filter wool from a fish shop/Amazon/Ebay and use one of the pads as a template to cut it to size.

Fishbeard · « **Reply #10 on:** October 31, 2020, 11:17:29 AM »

Thanks for the quick response Sue, I'll add filter wool to the shopping list!

Am I right in thinking that carbon's the one you add to draw medicines out of the water after a course of treatment?

Sue · « **Reply #11 on:** October 31, 2020, 11:25:42 AM »

Yes it is. That's just about the only use for carbon. If you keep a couple of the pads in the cupboard so that should you need them they'll be there ready. (Don't forget to replace them if you ever do need to use them

)

Sue · « **Reply #12 on:** October 31, 2020, 11:51:39 AM »

Something I forgot to mention.

Feed the fish less food than usual the day before the move, and nothing on move day. Again, feed less than usual for several days afterwards, then slowly increase back to the usual amount. Reducing the amount of food means less ammonia so the bacteria you will lose (tank walls etc) can increase without too much ammonia going into the water.

Fishbeard · « **Reply #13 on:** October 31, 2020, 08:41:43 PM »

Thanks for confirming on the carbon pads. I was able to get a big piece of filter wool, so I've added that in to the side compartments and squished my old filter sponge in with the Biomax in the middle compartment so that's sorted. I also picked up some kind of pinky-red plant (I could have sworn he called it a "salvinia", which is a plant name I recognise, but when I Googled to check, what comes up looks nothing like what I have so I have no idea now) and a few more pieces of Amazon Frogbit.

I had forgotten how long it takes to clean sand (and how tedious it is too), but it's in the tank, with decor and fih and heaters and so on. I've been feeding them less all week in anticipation, and no food today, I've also not bothered with the lights either. The sand is still settling, so I can onyl see a few bits at the front of the tank and the occasional cory darting around. I'll have a proper look in the morning and see just how bad a job I've done with positioning items!

fcmf · « **Reply #14 on:** October 31, 2020, 09:34:40 PM »

Reading your developments with interest.

I can only be brief tonight but wondering if your red plant is a red 'ludwigia' ('w' pronounced like a 'v')? If not, can only think of some form of alternanthera, some of which end in 'ia' (eg 'rosaefolia')...

Fishbeard · « **Reply #15 on:** October 31, 2020, 09:54:28 PM »

I think it might be a lidwigia, but I've not seen the plant since it went in (the sand is still clearing and the lights are off) so I'll check it over in the morning when hopefully I can see inside!

Fishbeard · « **Reply #16 on:** November 01, 2020, 05:43:07 PM »

So the mystery plant is an alternanthera reineckii, for anyone keeping tabs! The water's still a bit cloudy, and the tank's a bit of a mess to be quite frank. I doubt the fish mind, but I'll leave it until next weekend when I do the water change to tidy up when the dust has cleared. The new bits of Amazon Frogbit I picked up yesterday have huge roots that look like tendrils, it's almost like having jellyfish floating around.

@Matt

I believe you have the Aquasky light in your 220L tank. What settings would you recommend? For now I've just played with the auto settings to try it out and set the following schedule:

Sunrise: 1430-1530 (default)
Day: 1530-1930 (70B/70R/70G/55W)
Sunset: 1930-2030 (default)
Night: 2030-2130 (10B)

Despite the reviews, I didn't find the app all that hard to use, but I'm well out of my depth in regard to what makes a good schedule for growing healthy plants. My old tank was just an LED strip light with two modes - on and off!

Sue · « **Reply #17 on:** November 01, 2020, 07:02:15 PM »

Quote from: Fishbeard on November 01, 2020, 05:43:07 PM

The water's still a bit cloudy, and the tank's a bit of a mess to be quite frank.

When I added more sand to my tank, I put an extra small filter filled with filter wool in the tank which helped to clear the water. I had to replace the filter wool after 24 hours as it was so messy.

Fishbeard · « **Reply #18 on:** November 01, 2020, 08:10:01 PM »

Quote from: Sue on November 01, 2020, 07:02:15 PM

When I added more sand to my tank, I put an extra small filter filled with filter wool in the tank which helped to clear the water. I had to replace the filter wool after 24 hours as it was so messy.

The cloudiness is clearing, but I will bear that in mind.

When I said the tank was a mess, I meant more my layout and positioning of decor. I'm not aquascaper, but even I know a state when I see one! The water was quite murky yesterday, and whilst I've got most things in the right position, there's a bit of tweaking to be done, to say the least!

Sue · « **Reply #19 on:** November 01, 2020, 08:20:22 PM »

I do know what you mean. My tank was so cloudy I had to put things where I thought they should be - all of my plants at the time were either attached to decor or floating. When I could finally see into the tank I realised I had a sort of hill of sand in the middle of the tank and hardly any at the edges

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Planning For A 125L Tank

Planning For A 125L Tank

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