New Water, New Challenge, New Beta Fish!

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Offline Nan

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New water, new challenge, new beta fish!
« on: October 26, 2020, 04:44:30 PM »
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Hi Guyz.   :)

Hoping you are all safe over there in the UK! (The news we are getting here from there is scary.)

Our 55 litre tank made it over safe and sound. Our little 5 gallon tank was shattered. (Not pleased about that - I've had it for almost 20 years and it survived countless moves. It was well packed, but apparently was tossed around a lot from what the box looks like! So much for "fragile - glass" stickers all over the box!)  Our new 5.5 gallon tank is due to arrive today and we are going to try to get it started cycling ASAP. 

We are going to get a beta for it once the water is suitable. In a few months, once we know we'll be staying here for the long-term, he will be moved up to the 55 litre tank. (Until that point, the big tank will be in storage.) Then the little tank may have some ghost shrimp in it as they are quite cheap here and interesting to watch.

So once again I'm getting used to dealing with a new water source. I wrote to the local water authority and this is what they said:

"We have different water sources that the Town uses at times and those results are listed in the Annual Water Quality Report. Generally the

ph is 7.70 +/ -
Alkalinity 80 - 120
nitrate 2.26ppm
nitrite<0.01
chlorine 0.20-1.70mg/l
Fluoride 0.70- 1.00mg/l
silicate - none detected
Hardness is 160 - 200. (17.1 grains per gallon)
We do not test for ammonia, phosphate."

Wow, that's so different from Glasgow's water! They say they draw from an open reservoir out in the forest, and also have three deep wells from which they get the water for the system. As the source changes depending on when in the year it is, etc., I'm going to have to watch the water quality like a hawk!

I believe betas prefer soft water in the 6.5-7.0pH range. That would be the easiest thing to fix in all this, I think. That hardness - I need to get it below 25 or 30, right? Looks like I'm going to need to get some bogwood (Mopani?) to help with the pH over time, and maybe mix the local water (after treating it) with distilled water? 

Other suggestions as to how to get this water down to beta-friendly standards? Since it'll be a smaller tank, I'll be changing out  water at least twice a week. (That worked well for us when we were in California with a beta in a similar tank.) We bought some round gravel for the "ground" and have several live plants ready to be put in there as well.
 

Offline Sue

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Re: New water, new challenge, new beta fish!
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2020, 05:02:53 PM »
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Sorry about your tank. I sometimes thing putting a 'fragile' sticker on a box makes them throw it round even more  >:(

Hardness is the most important parameter, but I'm a bit confused by yours.

17.1 grains per gallon = 293 ppm and 16.4 dH. I have no idea where the '160 to 200' comes from. That is a bit too hard for a betta. Their range is 18 to 268 ppm (or 1 to 15 dH) with a pH of 6.0 to 8.0.

The way to reduce hardness is to mix it with some form of pure water. Distilled water is OK for this, as is reverse osmosis (RO) water. If you could reduce it to around 10 dH, that would be OK for a betta. Half tap water and half 'pure' water would reduce the hardness to 8.2 dH, so you'd slightly less than 50% pure water. I would get a GH tester so you could work out how much to use.

Offline fcmf

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Re: New water, new challenge, new beta fish!
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2020, 10:16:35 PM »
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Very disappointing about the little tank, Nan, especially as it's been part of your household for so long.

I'm wondering if your hardness is in fact 160-200 ppm, but the 17.1 grains per (US) gallon refers to the definition (ie 1 gpg = 17.1 ppm, as described in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_per_gallon) rather than what your own gpg is?  If that's the case, then all should be ok for a betta as the mid-point of 180 equates to the 10 dH.


Offline Nan

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Re: New water, new challenge, new beta fish!
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2020, 10:21:03 PM »
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FCMF - Thanks for answering. I have no idea, but will ask them. The guys at the water plant don't seem to get a lot of people asking them about the water - they responded to my email in about 15 minutes!

Sue - Yeah, the tester is on order.  :)  I was just going by what the water guy was saying until it arrives, and his response confused me.  It should be here sometime late this week, and long before it's time to get a fish, so there will be time to tinker with it all.  I have a grocery order to put in next week and am going to add a bunch of distilled water to it if needed (assuming they carry it). Fingers are crossed!

I wonder if there is some sort of little kit I could get to do reverse osmosis water here at the house? That way I would not be so dependent on having to have distilled water sent in. (Assuming it's required, of course!)

The tank did arrive today, and we had bought plants for it yesterday, so we've got it set up now with water running in it, etc. Have added some Tetra safe-start plus, as it came with the tank. Need to get that little bit of bogwood and/or the leaves (Almond leaves? It's been so long since I've had a beta I don't remember, but will look it up!) to add some tannin to the water.

Sadly, there are very few good aquarium stores nearby me here. We don't have a car yet, so I'm relying on public transportation and the internet. The best I've found is a PetCo and a PetsMart, both of which have some supplies but not as many as I would have hoped for. Still, it's a better situation with suppliers than we had in Glasgow.

Offline Nan

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Re: New water, new challenge, new beta fish!
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2020, 02:31:11 PM »
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Aaaand, at 3:00am I woke up to the sound of water splashing to the floor in a relatively steady rate. Yep, the front bottom seal had failed catastrophically!  :yikes:

Phoned the company this morning. They supposedly are shipping us another at no cost, and we are to keep the leaking tank and supplies. (It came with a filter and a hood with light, thermometer, and net.)

Next logical thought - get a tube of aquarium seal and seal the beejeezus out of the tank, and hold the new one back for use in a future emergency situation. Having not sealed an aquarium since the 1970s, I'm sure technology has changed quite a bit. Does it still work to get a tube of aquarium sealant/caulk and run a thick bead on all seams, then force it into the crevices with a tool or a finger? Can it be put on TOO thickly (resulting in future failure)?

Offline Nan

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Re: New water, new challenge, new beta fish!
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2020, 02:56:56 AM »
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Actually, it turned out when I totally drained the tank that the bottom glass was cracked. And the seals had failed.  Had many heated discussions with the shop that sold it to me, and got a refund. It is now being converted to a terrarium. 

Found an Aqueon 5.5 gallon (US) tank and it is now in the first stages of cycling. I got the API test kit for GH/KH. If I did the test correctly tonight the GH was 179 and the KH was around 161.  I tried to do the pH but it was at the top of the scale (7.6). I'm not sure if it was over 7.6, as that's as high as the chart went. I'm going to drain a bit and add some distilled water to see if I can get the GH/KH down very  slightly, and get some bogwood to try to bring the pH down a bit.  Or some Indian almond leaves - it seems easier to find those here.

Once the tank has cycled, we have a particular fish in mind - she's a lovely little Koi betta at a local shop that actually keeps their bettas in individual tanks instead of those horrid plastic cups. There is no chance of having a betta sent to us at this time of year, as it gets bitterly cold at night and I'm not willing to take a chance on a fish being subjected to that. So we're prepping the tank and hoping for the best in making it a welcoming home for the little fish.  Fingers are crossed it doesn't take too long.  :) It looks like things here are going to get locked down a bit in a few weeks if people don't start behaving themselves so I'd like to get the fish home before that happens.

Speaking of which, I hope all of you are safe over there. Our best wishes and hopes for you.

Offline Sue

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Re: New water, new challenge, new beta fish!
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2020, 09:22:52 AM »
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The shop should never have sold that tank, it wasn't fit for purpose. But at least you can find a use for it  :)


GH at 179 ppm (aka 10 dH) is OK for a betta.

API does a high range pH tester which may be useful. Was the pH you tested on tank water or freshly run tap water? For tap water, don't forget you need to test freshly run and a glass of water that's been allowed to stand 24 hours.

Offline Nan

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Re: New water, new challenge, new beta fish!
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2020, 03:14:45 PM »
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Yes, it was a Top Fin 5.5US gallon kit from PetsMart and although they had said they were shipping a replacement, none arrived. There was quite a bit of back-and-forth before I got my money back. Should have known better - I later looked online at reviews of the tank later and this seems to be a very common problem with that particular tank. There were a LOT of complaints about the bottom glass failing. We had used Top Fin in the past, although it had been many years, without incident so were rather surprised at the drop in quality. They've never been top-of-the-line tanks, but they were usable. On the good side, I did not have to return the tank and kit, so I now have a spare "over the back" filter should my little Whisper filter fail, and a spare thermometer and net.  The Aqueon tank is holding well and I think it's going to be ok. It looks good, and I've started trying to cycle it. 

The water I tested came from the tank after it had sat for 24 hours with plants and with the filter running, and after Tetra AquaSafe + was already added to the water.  I had forgotten, but I think my master test kit does have that high-range pH test. Thanks for the memory jog! I had never needed it in Glasgow so I'd forgotten it was in there. I'll give that a go in a bit.  Any water that goes into the tank will always be aged water.  (Unless it's a dire emergency.)

I have been having a little trouble getting the temperature up to where I'd like it, and was a little worried about that. (Our house heating system drops the house temp to 64F at night and keeps it at 68F in the daytime.) I'd forgotten that it takes a while for the larger stones we put in the tank to absorb the heat of the water - now that they have warmed up they'll act as a kind of a buffer reservoir of heat for a little while. The Eheim 25 watt heater is working very well, so now the temp is holding at between 77 and 78. I know bettas like 76-80F, but have had the best luck keeping them at around 77-78.

The plants don't look good, however. When the original tank cracked, I had to put the plants in some glass vases of water and kept them near a growlight in my kitchen. I gave them a tiny bit of hydroponic plant food while they were in the vases, and they have survived, but they are not happy.  With such a small tank I think I probably need to be really careful about how much plant food I put in there. Once there's a fish in there its waste will help feed the plants, but if you know of a good brand of fertilizer to use, that'd be welcome news. I assume I'd add it at a drop or two with every water change, as concentrated as they all seem to be from reading the labels online!

Offline Nan

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Re: New water, new challenge, new beta fish!
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2020, 03:19:00 PM »
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Also, my daughter (who will be selecting the fish) is asking for information about the personalities of female betta fish. We have only had males - and they are great.  She wants an "interactive" fish, not one that hides all the time. We've read that females are not as outgoing as males.  Can anyone give any advice on that? It will be a single fish only, because of the size of the tank. We are not looking for a fish with extremely ornate fins, so a female would be fine as long as the "personality" is there.

Offline Sue

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Re: New water, new challenge, new beta fish!
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2020, 03:42:13 PM »
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Male bettas don't hide all the time - or at least mine never did. It's when they are kept in those tiny tanks which you see sold for bettas, with no decor at all that they just lie on the bottom and do nothing. In a 5 gallon tank with plants (real or silk) and maybe an interesting bit of decor a betta should be active. Having said that, those bettas with enormous tails do tend to be less active as it's tiring lugging those fins around. If you could find a short finned male, he would be quite active - males still tend to be more colourful than males if that's important to your daughter. And of course a female is another option.

Offline Nan

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Re: New water, new challenge, new beta fish!
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2020, 05:27:23 PM »
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Hi. Thanks for your reply.  Yes, we've had males before and they were great. We have never had a female so we're not sure how the personality goes with them. (The caveat, of course, is that they are all individuals and have different "minds".) Daughter read somewhere or someone told her that females tend to be a bit reclusive.  I rather like the Koi female betta, but she is favoring a crimson veil tail male right now.

I just did the "high range" pH test, and of course with these color charts it's not always precise. I'd say it's above 7.8 but not to 8.2. Probably between 7.8 and 8. If the weather holds we're going to do a shopping expedition tomorrow to a different pet store to look for small bits of bogwood and some Indian almond leaves to put in there. They should help with lowering the pH a small amount.

Offline Nan

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Re: New water, new challenge, new beta fish!
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2020, 05:57:54 PM »
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Ok, I think we're good to go on the tank. I used Tetra Safe Start bacteria back when setting up the replacement tank.  I've got no ammonia, no nitrites, between 0 and .5 Nitrates. The water hardness is still coming in  as KH 107.4 and GH 196.9. The pH I think is around 7.8.  Temperature in the tank is stable at 77F, and the large rocks will have been in there long enough to serve as a "heat sink" to help keep it steady in case of fluctuations in the room temp that the heater can't manage. We added a few more plants, and some water lettuce, and gave the tank a few drops of "Flourish" a week ago. We also added a small amount of Mopani wood that I boiled on the stove for half an hour first. Plus an Indian Almond leaf.

I think we're ready to bring home a betta. Will take over a sample of the water and let the shop test it as well, just to make sure. If all is "good" we'll be hopefully bringing someone home this afternoon. :fishy1:

Offline Littlefish

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Re: New water, new challenge, new beta fish!
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2020, 09:18:38 AM »
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Exciting news.  :)

Offline Sue

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Re: New water, new challenge, new beta fish!
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2020, 10:04:57 AM »
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Don't forget the photos  ;)

Offline Nan

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Re: New water, new challenge, new beta fish!
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2020, 02:33:01 PM »
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As soon as he'll hold still long enough to get a clear shot!  He's all over the tank this morning. (He came home yesterday evening.) Definitely a predator, he's been "hunting" along the rocks and looking under the leaves, etc., quite a bit.  Seems a curious little guy, very personable.  We need to get more light for the tank, though. We bought some more water lettuce to float to give him more cover and the little light that came with the tank hood is just not going to provide enough lumens to keep all the plants going as things are now. (Thank goodness for Amazon prime!)

The daughter was choosing between him (a black/blue crowntail) or an absolutely lovely big pale champagne-colored rose tail. I think she really wanted the latter, but the crowntail (who I once swore I'd never buy one of) was dancing around and doing everything it could to be obvious to us, and is really a pretty little guy, so I voted for him. The champagne fish really was stunning, but those fins were just freakishly huge. All I could imagine was them getting torn up or stuck onto the filter. (I do have the filter running at just a trickle, but it's still drawing water in at the bottom.)  So this guy is mostly black but with some variations of blue on his tale and some red, too.  I think he's quite a handsome little guy. Now to find a name....

Offline Nan

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Re: New water, new challenge, new beta fish!
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2020, 12:24:09 AM »
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The attached photos really don't do him justice. He's inky blue-black on his body (so far) and when the light hits his tail and top fin they are various shades of blue into almost a metallic sky blue. He has crimson red on his ventral fins, and his pectoral fins are almost clear.  We think he may still be a bit of a juvenile, as in some light you can see vague spots on him still.  The light in this tank is not strong enough to manage all the plants, but we have a replacement arriving tomorrow. If it makes a difference in how he looks I'll try for more photos for you.

He seems to be happy. He spends a lot of his day hunting along the bottom rocks and under the plant leaves.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: New water, new challenge, new beta fish!
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2020, 08:30:07 AM »
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He's a lovely looking fish.  :)

Offline Sue

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Re: New water, new challenge, new beta fish!
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2020, 09:41:41 AM »
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He's gorgeous  :)

Offline fcmf

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Re: New water, new challenge, new beta fish!
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2020, 02:15:08 PM »
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Oh wow - beautiful colours.  8) :afro 8) :fishy1:

Offline Nan

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Re: New water, new challenge, new beta fish!
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2020, 08:48:05 PM »
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Thanks. Yes, he is striking. His color is lightening and brightening up a bit since we go him home. We do think he's at most an adolescent, so there's no telling what his "true" colors will end up being for a bit.  He's already learned where the feeding port is.  :)

We named him "Donny".

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