Cycling The New Tank

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Offline Nan

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Cycling the new tank
« on: January 06, 2023, 12:32:30 AM »
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It's been about five days, which is waaaay too early for the tank to have cycled yet. I used API Quick Start, liberally. (It claims you can add fish immediately, but I'm really leary of that.)  The tank is now planted with mature plants, but not too many.  Gary the snail has been in there since last weekend and seems to be doing ok. There was a residue of algae on the filter case, even though I'd scrubbed it, that we can see his "mow track" in now. There is also existing algae on the plant leaves, which I assume he'll go after if he gets hungry enough. We also put in a sinking wafer for him, but he didn't seem interested and it just disintegrated.

Using the API liquid chemicals test kit, the tank is showing:

.5 ammonia
no nitrites
5.0 nitrates

The pH is at the top end of the pH test colors, so I tried the "high pH" test and it is looking like 7.4. I've added some more cataba leaves, and we have another bit of driftwood to add. It's my understanding that the higher the pH, the more dangerous ammonia is to a fish, so hopefully the cataba and wood will bring it down a little bit.

I'm thinking the tank probably hasn't actually cycled yet, or the ammonia would be lower. It's possible that the nitrates are just generically in the water as it comes out of the tap. (I'll check that - I have a glass of water sitting now that I'm letting degass.) I have not put any Prime in the tank since Sunday (5 days ago).

I put in a dash of Betta food and also some more Quick Start. Other than giving it time, and feeding it a bit every day, there's not a lot else I can be doing, right? It'll cycle when it cycles.

Offline Hampalong

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Re: Cycling the new tank
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2023, 11:24:59 AM »
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It isn’t cycled till ammonia and nitrite are both zero. It’ll take a few weeks.
The wood and leaves will only lower the pH if the water is soft (low KH), but 7.4 will cycle quicker than a lower pH. Also a high temp, up near 80, will help, if the snail’s ok with it.
You could add some bacteria to speed it up, or a bit of mature media. Quick Start is hit and miss, so might not be helping.
Adding ammonia is a lot quicker than adding food.

:)

Offline Nan

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Re: Cycling the new tank
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2023, 12:31:54 PM »
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Thanks.  I'm going to the aquarium shop tomorrow to buy some snail food, so I'll see if they have any ammonia. Have to be careful about the snail, though, with adding ammonia. 

We have no nitrite, just a ammonia and nitrate right now. The fact that there's still ammonia is what makes me think it hasn't cycled.  I might put some Tetra bacteria in there as well - that's worked for us in the past.  The temp is sitting at about 78F right now.

There is no huge hurry, but there is a nice little female betta at the shop that's been there for a couple of weeks now that we'd like to bring home. I'm not about to do it until the tank is cycled, though. Hopefully she'll still be available at that point.

Offline Hampalong

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Re: Cycling the new tank
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2023, 12:39:10 PM »
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Actually I wouldn’t add ammonia with livestock. I wouldn’t add food either because it will become ammonia. At your pH 0.5 ammonia is deadly to fish, and I’d wager pretty damaging for a snail also.
You’re doing an ‘animal-in’ cycle so I would remove that ammonia (water change) and keep it as low as possible.

Offline Nan

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Re: Cycling the new tank
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2023, 12:53:18 PM »
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Oh my. I'll hit it with Prime again (it's been about three days since I did that last). I don't want Gary the snail to be injured.

Offline Hampalong

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Re: Cycling the new tank
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2023, 01:02:21 PM »
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Trouble is, you’re trying to get enough bacteria for a snail and a Betta, but you can’t do that without risking the snail.

If you add no ammonia or excess food, it’ll cycle with enough bacteria for a snail. Then when you add the Betta you’ll need to add more food, which will produce ammonia that won’t go anywhere till the bacteria have caught up, and will probably kill the Betta.

If you add ammonia / food, you’ll get the bacteria you want but the snail is at risk, from ammonia and then possibly nitrite.

If you add bacteria at this point, they’ll end up adjusted down to just enough for the snail.

What you can do is either add bacteria and a Betta at the same time (with no ammonia). There’s a small degree of risk there, even though Tetra Safe Start does work.
Or you can add some mature media and the Betta at the same time, which is the no-risk option (as long as you don’t kill the new media by shocking it with a mad large change in parameters).

Offline Nan

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Re: Cycling the new tank
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2023, 01:38:59 PM »
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Well, I don't have any mature media, so that's out.

I guess option #3 is move Gary to another tank and try to cycle up the first tank for the Betta.

Alternately, chance the Betta and Safe Start at the same time.  I'll have to consider that carefully - I don't want to kill the betta. (Nor do I want to kill Gary.)

Offline Nan

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Re: Cycling the new tank
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2023, 02:06:13 PM »
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I wish my memory was better. I seem to remember that when I first moved here and set up Donny the Bettafish's tank I was adding distilled water to his water change for some time, slowly dropping the amount of distilled water with each change, at the start.  For the life of me I cannot remember why I did that. Maybe to lower the pH a bit.... I would think that would be beneficial right now. Possibly.

Offline Hampalong

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Re: Cycling the new tank
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2023, 02:40:23 PM »
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Distilled water will soften the water in the tank, which can lower the pH, but if you add too much the pH could crash. You’ll need to monitor the pH and KH if you’re using distilled water.
If you’re cycling I’d wait till that’s finished, because lowering the pH will slow it down.

Offline Nan

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Re: Cycling the new tank
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2023, 03:08:49 PM »
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Probably right. I don't have any at the house right now anyway.

I just did another water test. The ammonia still seems to be about the same, but there is now just the barest trace of color change in the nitrite test.  I had put more bacteria in yesterday.

I'm not sure how much of the ammonia is coming from Gary and what food has been put in there and how much is coming from the Prime dealing with the chloramine....

Just to see that the tap water read (and to make sure nothing was wonky with the test kit) I tested for ammonia and nitrites in the tap water, after it had sat for an hour. No traces.

Offline Hampalong

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Re: Cycling the new tank
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2023, 04:06:20 PM »
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I'm not sure how much of the ammonia is coming from Gary and what food has been put in there and how much is coming from the Prime dealing with the chloramine....


A bit of each I’d say. At least you have movement, and the ammonia munchers are doubling every day, so that should be gone in a few days. And the nitrite munchers are now doubling every day too. You could be cycled in a week or so.

Offline Nan

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Re: Cycling the new tank
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2023, 04:16:58 PM »
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Well that would be good.  My daughter really wants to go get the Betta tomorrow, but I think I'm going to put that off until next week. If it's still available, that's great. If not, I won't have to worry that I caused harm to it by getting it into the tank too early.

Now I just hope that Gary is going to be ok until then.  He's eating well - he's cleared off a leaf of a plant that had been covered with algae.

Offline Nan

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Re: Cycling the new tank
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2023, 07:08:47 PM »
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Ok, I'm impressed with API Quick Start. Last night we had a bit more nitrite than earlier in the day, but my ability to match color is impaired. Definitely were some in there, though.

Today we have ~0~ ammonia ~0~ nitrite 10 nitrate (possibly a bit over - it's hard to tell with a color chart).  I ran the tests twice, same results. Absolutely no color change between start and end of test on either of the ammonia or nitrite. The nitrate started changing color almost immediately.

So that tells me that there are some ammonia-munching bacteria munching away (and that the plants have also been absorbing it), and that the nitrite-munching bacteria are coming on well.

I've never used API QuickStart before, so this is a pleasant surprise.

Slightly off-topic:  I have heard that there are electronic analyzers that will more precisely test these types of water parameters. Can anyone recommend one?

Offline Matt

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Re: Cycling the new tank
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2023, 07:21:01 PM »
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I think it might be these kind of things you are referring to… https://www.hannainstruments.co.uk/aquarium/475-ammonia-low-range-checker-0-00-to-3-00ppm

(Available from jungle themed online retailers too)

Offline Nan

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Re: Cycling the new tank
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2023, 12:41:57 PM »
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Those are nice. Have you any experience with them?

Offline Matt

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Re: Cycling the new tank
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2023, 07:58:25 PM »
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Personally no but I hear good things about them frequently

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