Advice Re Change Of Lighting

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Offline fcmf

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Advice re change of lighting
« on: December 31, 2014, 11:55:12 AM »
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Hello,

Our x-ray tetras have 'transferred' their dislike of water changes to a dislike of the lighting, despite me putting on the room lights gradually beforehand and despite 'forewarning' them that I'm about to switch the light on so as it's not sudden. They dart and cower in/behind their cave and plants if the lights are on. It seems that a few days away from home, having left them in the tank with the lights off, has contributed to this dislike of their lighting. We have tried putting taller plants in to provide more coverage and putting plants on the surface to dim the lighting, and have tried to persevere with the lighting kept on, but it's clear that they don't like this and immediately revert to their normal, active selves as soon as the lights are switched off. They are now joined by some pygmy cories which I thought might help calm down their dislike/fear. Although we could leave them without a light, it would be nice to see them a little better - but without distressing them.

We currently have a Sun-Glo 15w bulb. Any recommendations for alternatives? Presumably it would have to be the same/lower wattage. I've seen marine/power/aqua/day-glo options. We don't plan to have live plants.

Thanks in advance for any advice/help.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Advice re change of lighting
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2015, 10:47:27 AM »
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As an update, I tried the Aqua-Glo as an alternative as it seemed the best option from my own reading and helpful advice from the LFS, but unfortunately, after a minute or so of the fish sitting still as though trying to make up their minds whether or not they liked it, it was met with the same reaction as the fish retreated into/around the cave for shelter and remained there, shaking. As soon as the light was switched off, out they came and resumed 'normal' behaviour. These fish seem to have decided quite strongly that they don't want lighting!

Offline Richard W

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Re: Advice re change of lighting
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2015, 11:20:06 AM »
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Most small fish don't like bright lighting, in nature they don't like swimming around in the open where they would be easy prey for larger fish. They usually spend their time among plants or close in to the banks where there is cover from overhanging vegetation. To quote the profile here for X-ray tetras "The fish require areas of vegetation and do not like brightly lit areas so a dark substrate and some cover is appreciated".
You have said that you don't intend to have live plants but also that you have tried putting plants on the surface which is a bit confusing. I would always suggest putting in floating live plants for these small shoaling type of fish. But unless you have a densely planted tank, you are unlikely to ever see the natural behaviour and true colours of these fish. A darkish background on the rear glass of the tank might also help, if you haven't got one already. In my opinion, most people's tanks are far too bare for most small fish.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Advice re change of lighting
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2015, 12:14:37 PM »
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Thanks. There had never been a problem with the lighting until very recently - in fact, putting them off at night had caused the fish to shoal up tightly unlike their more 'relaxed' behaviour during the daytime. However, after a few days of having experienced the lights off during the daytime and therefore a 'taster' of their more natural environment, they clearly decided that this was actually much more preferable.

There is a black background at the rear of the tank, the tank has had several additions of tall, overhanging plants since this picture of a few weeks ago, and I had cut the silk leaves off another fake plant and carefully placed them on the water surface in an attempt to dim the lighting. The fish have been very lively and active since their arrival, swimming throughout the entire tankspace, and so I think curtailing their open swimming space with additional plants any more than I already have done would probably not be a wise move in this case. I had decided against replacing the substrate with a dark one to prevent any disruption/to minimise additional stress and had decided against keeping live plants until my tropical fishkeeping skills were better honed; however, perhaps a thin layer of dark substrate over the top of the existing substrate and branching out into live plantkeeping skills in the tank (at least for the surface) are options.

Thanks again.

Offline Richard W

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Re: Advice re change of lighting
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2015, 08:34:57 AM »
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I know your tank is fairly typical of many, but I think from the perspective of small fish, it's really quite bare without much shelter to make them feel comfortable. If you are worried about going in for live plants, I would suggest  that you start by attaching Java fern to some of the objects in the tank, it may be all that you need.

I also wonder about the number and type of fish and if more of a similar type of fish would make the X rays more confident. I know you have tried this with the Pygmy cories, but they are a very different type of fish. I bought several used tanks a while ago and some of them came with a few small fish, mainly tetras. At first I put each type into a separate tank, planning to add more of each later. Under these circumstances, some of them were very shy and would hardly ever be visible, in fact in the case of Black neons and Black phantoms I really thought they must have died several times as they were impossible to find. After a while, I decided that more of these were not in my plans and so I put them all in one tank. Within a day or so, the behaviour of all of them changed, they all became much bolder and shoal together, never hiding away. The Black neons went from being total recluses to the boldest fish in the tank. This small 60 litre tank contains mainly tetras, 12 Neons, 2 Black Neons, 4 Cardinals, 2 Black Phantoms and 2 Rummy Nose plus one male guppy. They all shoal and mix together happily, even the guppy. Incidentally, the tank is 120% overstocked according to the calculators but they have been in there for over a year with no problems at all with only a standard filter and minimal water changes, though with lots of, live plants.

What has this to do with the question? I reckon that if you had more similar fish (i.e. more tetras) in the tank, they would all be more confident. These fish all live in large shoals in nature and the more there are, even if not all the same species, the happier they seem to be.

It's possible your fish had spent all their live in bright light e.g. at the fish shop and then you brought them into another brightly lit environment to which they were already accustomed. When the lights were off they had their first taste of the conditions they really like and want more of the same! That may be nonsense, but I can't think of another explanation.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Advice re change of lighting
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2015, 11:32:51 AM »
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Thanks.

I'm not entirely sure if the fish are suffering from a lack of confidence.  Certainly the water changes (until I started wearing disposable gloves to do these), and recently the lighting, resulted in "terrified" (cowering) behaviour, but otherwise they have been very lively and active, swimming throughout the tank as though not lacking in confidence.  Since the inclusion of the additional, tall/overhanging plants at the back, and the pygmy cories, they have moved to the front of the tank while the pygmy cories spend much of their time at the back - it's as though these have disrupted their 'regime' in which they had full reign of the tank and uninterrupted swimming.  Now that they are at the front of the tank, and not swimming about constantly, I'm noticing that what I thought were 2 heavily pregnant females (and possibly the reason why they seemed most perturbed by the lighting) are actually the more dominant fish who are always first for food and consume the most food, and that one of them seems to chase the others out of its way and become involved in 'scuffles' with the others - which is possibly why the pygmy cories have retreated to the back to be out of the way.

On the basis of the above (whether it's a lack of confidence or not), do you think the additional, similar fish might help the situation? Coincidentally, I had also been wondering whether some additional fish might help or whether it might make it worse (eg the dominant fish might see them as competition) - but had wondered whether harlequins might be a plan as it seems as though they might have a calming effect. Since the inclusion of the tall, overhanging plants, the top part of the tank has become unoccupied, and so I'd wondered if harlequins (or even glowlight danios) might be an option generally and might occupy this section rather than potentially overcrowd the bottom half of the tank?

Offline Richard W

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Re: Advice re change of lighting
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2015, 02:22:21 PM »
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I'm not sure how big your tank is, but Glowlight danios, and other danios, need a minimum 80 cms length, preferably more. It's a bit of a myth that they are surface fish and they would probably use all levels of the tank. The only danios I have are Zebras and Pearls and they spend much more time near the tank bottom than the top. Apart from the obvious bottom dwellers, such as most catfish, I think a normal aquarium is too shallow for fish to clearly stratify into top, middle and bottom fish. Very few fish, maybe Hatchet fish (which need big tanks) actually normally stay near the surface. It's a pretty dangerous place in nature, you can be attacked from below by fish and from above by birds! 
Of those you mention I'd go for Harlequins, though I think almost any fish from the tetra or rasbora types would be OK as they tend to have similar temperaments. You only need to avoid the sometimes more aggressive types such as Serpae tetras.
 Fish swimming actively round all parts of the tank is not necessarily a good sign, happy fish will generally be more relaxed. Most of mine have adopted particular areas as their own and spend a lot of their time there.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Advice re change of lighting
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2015, 03:01:55 PM »
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Many thanks. That's all very helpful and good to know. At 60cm length, it seems the danios and hatchet fish would not be options in my tank anyway, so I'll definitely go for either tetras or rasboras (plus a layer of dark substrate and some live Java fern).

Offline Sue

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Re: Advice re change of lighting
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2015, 04:32:12 PM »
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Java fern is the live plant I started with, the only one I couldn't kill. Looking at the photo of your tank, you could attach it to the piece of wood and the rock-like thing on the right. You just need to tie it on with a length of cotton or nylon thread till it clings by itself. I've also heard of elastic bands being used.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Advice re change of lighting
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2015, 05:07:13 PM »
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Thanks for the tip. That does indeed sound like the type of plant I should use ie one that's invincible. :)

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