Author Topic: Fin Nipping - BNP with torn fins (Read 6700 times) 27 replies

Vanadia · « **on:** December 09, 2019, 07:20:12 AM »

My long fin bristle nosed pleco has really bad torn fins and tail (see attached photo). I suspect that this has been caused by fin-nipping, I have been trying some new dried foods for my pleco recently in preparation for a holiday and the other fish have been trying to get these foods and I have seen them nipping his tail and fins. I have danios and tetras so fin nipping is quite common in my aquarium. I am not sure if the danios and tetras are optimal tank mates for the pleco, but I am not able to get a second aquarium right now as I may be moving in the next few months. I have previously been avoiding fin-nipping by feeding the pleco fresh foods which the other fish have no interest in.

I am worried that it may have developed into fin-rot. I am very reluctant to use any medications for a pleco. There doesn’t appear to be any water quality issues, ammonia and nitrite are 0, and nitrates are less than 20. I last did a water change 2 days ago, and I gave the tank a more thorough clean yesterday with a gravel vacuum to be sure. Is there anything else I can do, or will these just heal?

Sue · « **Reply #1 on:** December 09, 2019, 09:11:14 AM »

For now, do extra water changes and gravel cleans and watch the fins. If they seem to be getting worse, then we'll have to look for a medication that is tolerated by plecs.

Many species of otherwise non-nippy fish just can't help themselves when they share a tank with long finned fish, I'm afraid. But they tend to be less nippy if there is a big group of them. Can I ask, how many of each species of danio and tetra do you have?

Matt · « **Reply #2 on:** December 09, 2019, 01:29:58 PM »

You could also try feeding the pleco at night when the other fish may be less interested

Vanadia · « **Reply #3 on:** December 09, 2019, 06:07:11 PM »

@Sue I have 7 danios (3 leopard and 4 zebra) and 10 neon tetras.

@Matt I have tried that in the past, they still wake up for the food!

Sue · « **Reply #4 on:** December 09, 2019, 06:43:03 PM »

Those number should be OK. Leopard danios are a variant of zebra danio - they are the same species. It is when there are only two or three in a tank that usually non-nippy fish can become aggressive.

jaypeecee · « **Reply #5 on:** December 09, 2019, 07:57:28 PM »

Hi @Sue

What would be your thoughts on using API Melafix as a preventative?

JPC

fcmf · « **Reply #6 on:** December 09, 2019, 09:52:32 PM »

I've used API Melafix in situations similar to this, where I think the situation is relatively mild and would benefit from some assistance but doesn't quite warrant moving the fish for stronger medication treatment in the hospital tank and the associated stress. I can't be certain whether or not it helped but it certainly caused no harm or deterioration to any tank inhabitants (fish or snails). [I also have Easylife Voogle for such scenarios but am not a big fan of it - it seemed to induce a saprologenia-type secondary fungus more than once.]

I know Sue's not a fan of Melafix due to its only ingredient being cajeput/tea-tree oil and due to its smell (which personally I love). Some fish seem to tolerate it less than others. Sue will no doubt elaborate on this later.

Sue · « **Reply #7 on:** December 09, 2019, 10:06:47 PM »

I have had a lot of labyrinth fish over the years which is why I don't like any of the -fix products. But as this tank has no labyrinth fish, it probably won't do any harm.

Having said that, I also once had a serious issue with some Beckford's pencilfish Nannostomus beckfordi. Another fish was looking very odd so I used Melafix and Pimafix as they say they can be used together. Then I went to watch Countdown, which is 45 minutes long. I looked in the tank after it finished and all but one of the pencilfish were dead, the last one was thrashing around and died a few minutes later.

jaypeecee · « **Reply #8 on:** December 10, 2019, 03:55:48 PM »

Quote from: Sue on December 09, 2019, 10:06:47 PM

I have had a lot of labyrinth fish over the years which is why I don't like any of the -fix products. But as this tank has no labyrinth fish, it probably won't do any harm.

Hi @Sue

Yes, labyrinth fish (Anabantids) have special requirements because of their labyrinth organ.

JPC

Sue · « **Reply #9 on:** December 10, 2019, 04:03:07 PM »

it's the aromatic oils in the -fix products that are the problem for anabatids. This includes Bettafix which is Melafix at a dilution which make it easier to dose the small tanks bettas usually live in. This is a product which demonstrates that just because a product is sold for fish it doesn't necessarily mean it's good for them.

Vanadia · « **Reply #10 on:** January 24, 2020, 06:46:41 AM »

My plecos fins seem to be getting worse. He had a single bite mark in his dorsal fin and I have just returned from a 2 week trip and it is now much much worse (see photo). His tail also doesn't seem to have improved at all.

The water quality seemed fine when I got back (nitrates still around 20) which makes me wonder if I underfed the fish! However I have done a water change a couple of days ago and I will do another tomorrow.

I am wondering whether to give Melafix a try (I have used Pimafix in the past in this aquarium with no issues, but can't remember if it was before or after I got the pleco), or if there is anything else I could use?

jaypeecee · « **Reply #11 on:** January 24, 2020, 09:37:17 AM »

Quote from: Vanadia on December 09, 2019, 07:20:12 AM

I am worried that it may have developed into fin-rot. I am very reluctant to use any medications for a pleco.

Hi @Vanadia

Why are you very reluctant to use medications for a pleco? Perhaps you are right to be very reluctant but is there a specific reason for plecos? Diagnosing and treating fish disease is a bit of a lottery, isn't it? But this certainly looks like fin rot to me. If your pleco is being harrassed by your other fish, then s/he may have succumbed to fin rot brought on by stress. As I understand it, fin rot is a bacterial infection. There are many off-the-shelf treatments for this. Here is just one example:

https://www.ntlabs.co.uk/browse-products/indoor/aquariums/anti-ulcer-finrot/

The following is taken from NT Labs' website:

"This product will colour the water yellow. It will also stain skin and clothing, but is harmless to the filter bacteria and all species of fish and plants".

JPC

Hampalong · « **Reply #12 on:** January 24, 2020, 11:12:49 AM »

Well, nothing will work as long as the nippers are still there... and if you remove the nippers all you should need is good water quality and the fins will grow back.
You’ll only need a treatment if an infection sets in, and if the fish is unstressed (good water, nippers gone) that won’t happen.

I seriously doubt it’s the danios, but tetras have teeth like a miniature piranha, and yes a lot of them can’t resist the temptation of excess finnage (whether they’re well fed or not). It’s a natural part of the diet of some...

A few questions...
Have you seen them do it?
Does the BN have a place where the others can’t get to it?
Does the BN get stressed (mottled colour pattern, erratic behaviour, hiding a lot...)

jaypeecee · « **Reply #13 on:** January 24, 2020, 11:28:33 AM »

Hi @Vanadia

@Hampalong is correct, of course. If the fin-nippers are still nipping, then that's the source of the original problem. But, as he says 'Have you seen them do it?'. My concern is that fin-rot may now be an additional problem that would need to be addressed.

JPC

Hampalong · « **Reply #14 on:** January 24, 2020, 11:48:15 AM »

Good work @fishtales...

So we know the neons are nipping, and we know the BN is stressed. Stress causes (or rather allows) diseases. If the fin edges are greyish, that’s finrot. If they’re clear/normal colour, you’re safe, for now. But prolonged stress only has one result.... and to treat it successfully you’ll need to separate the BN and neons first to remove the stress.

Great excuse for another tank?

Vanadia · « **Reply #15 on:** January 24, 2020, 12:10:43 PM »

Thanks, I think I will give ParaGuard a go first and try lower doses initially as suggested in the article to check for signs of stress.

I think that feeding the pleco fresh foods does reduce the fin nipping as the other fish have no interest in courgette. Although I did experiment with some dried foods again recently (as I was worried about leaving him without food for 2 weeks whilst on holiday) and the same thing happened as with the algae wafer so ended up not using these. He must have been fine with just the algae in the tank and driftwood as he had a full belly when I returned.

I did notice that his tail was frequently sticking out of a cave he was using (and there was a danio looking quite mesmerised by it and constantly swimming around it) so I bought him a bigger cave a few weeks ago that he could fit his whole body in and he has been using it alot. Whether or not that will solve the problem I don't know and difficult to tell until it has healed.

I am moving house in a few months so I could get a new tank then as I should have more space. The only thing I can think of doing if it got really bad in the meantime is possibly using a tank divider.

jaypeecee · « **Reply #16 on:** January 24, 2020, 01:09:51 PM »

Hi Folks,

Yes, ParaGuard does seem like the best choice. Particularly relevant is Seachem's statement that:

"Fins appear shredded, frayed, or decaying. Fin Rot is frequently mistaken for damage from fin-nipping fish".

JPC

Vanadia · « **Reply #17 on:** January 29, 2020, 09:49:54 AM »

I have been using ParaGuard for a few days now and haven't had any issues with it so far. All the fish seem to be tolerating it well.

However the other day I did notice a white cloud mountain minnow swimming up to the pleco and biting his fin whilst he was just hanging from the filter. It happened several times within 10 minutes. I got a video of it but I can't seem to share it on here.

It looks like I am going to have to separate the pleco from the other fish. I am going to attempt to use a tank divider in the meantime until I am in a position to get a second aquarium. What would be a suitable tankmate for the pleco which wouldn't bite his fins? A 125 litre tank is rather large for just one fish!

fcmf · « **Reply #18 on:** January 29, 2020, 02:20:23 PM »

Quote from: Vanadia on January 29, 2020, 09:49:54 AM

It looks like I am going to have to separate the pleco from the other fish. I am going to attempt to use a tank divider in the meantime until I am in a position to get a second aquarium.

@Vanadia - do you have a tank divider? What is the dimension of your tank from one side to the other internally? The reason I'm asking is because your post reminded me that I bought a tank divider approx 15 yrs ago which I've actually never used (and likely never will) - or might have put it in for a day, then removed it. I'm happy to send it on to you if you'd like - just PM me your address if so. It's a Penn-Plax tank divider - approx 30cm width; would that be of any use to you or would it be too narrow?

Vanadia · « **Reply #19 on:** January 29, 2020, 02:26:45 PM »

@fcmf I have bought a tank divider now, but it would have been too narrow as I need 35cm by 40cm for my tank. Thanks anyway!

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Fin Nipping - BNP With Torn Fins

Fin Nipping - BNP With Torn Fins

Author Topic: Fin Nipping - BNP with torn fins (Read 6700 times) 27 replies

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