Bronze Corys Keep Dying, Bad Stock Or Am I Doing Anything Wrong?

Author Topic: Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?  (Read 8194 times) 38 replies

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Offline Vanadia

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Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?
« on: December 11, 2020, 08:44:29 AM »
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I started keeping bronze corys in my 105 litre aquarium back in September. Every went well for 4 weeks, then one of the corys become increasingly lethargic and died. I got 3 more (as I thought they might be happier in a group of 6), one died within a few days (despite careful acclimatisation) and the LFS replaced it, so I had 6. Then 2 more died within a couple of weeks (same symptoms). At that point I treated the tank with medicine for flukes/parasites. Everything seemed to have calmed down for a few weeks, and then this week I lost another, same lethargy/not eating then dying a few days later.

I am down to 3 now, and unsure if I should get more (perhaps from a different store) or if there is something in my tank that they don't like.

My tank is at 25-26 degrees, small (but not fine) gravel, soft water, plenty of hiding places, lots of plants, 2 airstones, tank mates are rasboras and tetras. I test the water regularly and I have never seem ammonia or nitrite go above 0, and nitrate go above 10 - 20. Is there anything obviously wrong with my tank that might be causing cory deaths (I wonder if the gravel is OK), or is this just bad stock.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2020, 03:52:40 PM »
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Are you able to see whether the remaining 3 fish have full-length barbels? (Compare with pictures of bronze cories' barbels online.) If they don't, then it's likely the gravel is wearing them down and ultimately leading to their demise, in which case I wouldn't get any more cories unless you change the substrate to sand.
A few other possibilities:
* Did you quarantine the new cories for a month or so? I'm reading it that you possibly didn't, in which case their deaths could possibly be accounted for either by the substrate wearing down their barbels or them succumbing to something in the tank.
( Do you know if your water softness is very different from the LFS's water softness? (Might be worth checking out the LFS's postcode on the water supplier website and/or finding out if they harden the water in some of their tanks. It might well be that the recent ones succumbed either to a sudden change in water softness / PH - or possibly just couldn't cope with the stress of transit from wherever > LFS > your home.

I wouldn't get any more bronze cories for now. I also have very soft water but didn't have success with pygmy cories. If I were you, I'd wait for a few months (in the hope that anything in the tank might dissipate), then possibly consider a different type of cory if you're particularly keen on them and prepared to change the substrate to give them a better chance (or buying bronze cories at a different time of year when the stock might be better quality).

Offline Vanadia

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Re: Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2020, 05:04:41 PM »
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I don't think that their barbels are full length based on pictures I have seen online, and some of them didn't seem to have very long barbels when I got them either. I think one of them has very short barbels. They were also being kept in a tank with gravel larger than mine at the LFS.

The LFS is only a 5-10 minute walk from my house, so I don't think that the water should be that different, and the travel time minimal. I also acclimatised them slowly by adding water gradually to the bag for at least 30 minute before adding them to the tank. I didn't quarantine.

I have no plans to change the gravel to sand, I don't mind using sand but gravel changes are alot of stress for the fish, and last time I changed substrate I lost a few fish, so I probably wouldn't get anymore if the gravel is the issue then.

However I do have an existing 80l tank with a sand substrate in it which is only 61% stocked according to AqAdvisor. It contains a bristle nose pleco and some black neons, so that could be an option for the 3 remaining corys if they are ultimately going to die if I leave them in a gravel tank. Can their barbels grow back?


Offline Vanadia

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Re: Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2020, 05:10:06 PM »
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Just to add, one of them did have black barbels after it died (that was the one that died 2 days after purchase). Not sure if that is a sign of an infection or damage.

Offline Matt

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Re: Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2020, 08:14:54 PM »
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can grow their barbells back, the sharpness of the substrate is as if not more important than the size - sharp sand can also cause issues. If the bristlenose is on I would assume the sand is ok, but I would be nervous of moving anything from your Cory tank to the 80l tank given your experiences.. interested to hear others thoughts

Offline Vanadia

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Re: Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2020, 01:05:00 PM »
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Thanks for the replies.

I have attached a photo of the sand in the 80l aquarium, and also of the barbels on one of the corys.

I guess I am wondering if the barbels have been damaged by the gravel in my aquarium (I do wonder if some of them died of stress), and if so, would the 80l aquarium be more suitable for them?

My main concerns are potentially introducing contagious diseases into the 80litre, stressing out the corys by moving them, and whether they would get along with a bristlenose pleco.

Offline Vanadia

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Re: Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2020, 01:06:39 PM »
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And the sand picutre.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2020, 09:45:31 PM »
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I have corys in every tank that has plecs and they seem to be ok together. My BNs tend to be quite solitary, and the corys are more outgoing, so they tend to use different parts of the tanks.  All my tanks have sand substrate.

Saying that, if you are planning to move your corys I'd be tempted to quarantine them in another tank before risking them in with your BN.

I think you may have a tricky decision head of you when you consider leaving the corys on gravel or moving them to the other tank. Whatever discussion happen here on the forum regarding the pros & cons of each option, the final decision is yours and we will support and assist however we can.  :)

Offline Vanadia

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Re: Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2020, 11:56:27 AM »
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Thanks

Yes it is a tricky decision! I do think that they would be better on sand in the long run, but I also suspect that corys don't deal with stress well (and moving to a new tank is quite stressful). I also don't want to put my bristle nose pleco at any risk either (he is my favourite fish!)

I find it very difficult to set up small quarantine tanks (around 15 litres). The smaller filters always seem way too strong, even if they are designed for a tank that size, and I have trouble keeping them cycled. Last time I used a small filter which had been in a established tank for 2 months, yet I still had ammonia and nitrite spikes. I am concerned if I put them in a quarantine tank I could end up losing them to either stress or bad water parameters. If anyone has any tips or suggestions on quarantine tanks, I would be interested to hear those.

Could I leave them in the existing tank for a period of time (not adding new fish or changing anything), and move them across if there have been no further deaths and no fish is showing any signs of disease?


Offline Littlefish

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Re: Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2020, 12:25:21 PM »
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I agree that your corys would be better on sand long term.
I still think you may have been unlucky with your corys. The ones I have are generally quite sturdy.
Let's see what the others think and perhaps we can come up with some options for you.  :)

Offline fcmf

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Re: Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2020, 06:36:26 PM »
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A couple of points:
* whether or not the cories would be stressed is hard to tell:
--- some/most of my fish have been very stressed out by a move, others surprisingly not at all; IME, attempts at capture indicate likely ultimate stress in the QT - evading capture suggests they would be stressed, whereas willingly going into the net/jug usually means they'll be unperturbed.
--- sometimes worth experimenting, and then either abandoning capture attempts or moving them back into main tank if problems evident in QT;
* filters for QT - yes, difficult to gauge, and volume turnover doesn't necessarily equate to tolerability by the fish:
--- the tiny filter that came with my ~17L QT is/was far more powerful than Eheim PickUp 45's adaptable flow that I bought for the tank when the aforementioned filter suddenly ceased; I also bought a Dennerle corner nano-filter for 10-40L as I wondered if it might be better, and I use it with its spraybar, but the two are very similar, and even very weak fish seem to cope with them fine. [NB overall preference probably the Eheim one as the Dennerle one required an additional module/media basket to use mature media from main tank in it.]
--- when you put the QT's filter in the main tank as an extra filter, did you ensure mature media was put into it? If not, then it's possible that it didn't actually get colonised by beneficial bacteria, hence the ammonia/nitrite spikes in main tank.

Offline Sue

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Re: Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2020, 08:46:32 PM »
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I've set up my quarantine tank twice in the last 12 months.

The first time I used media from my main tank, and just to make sure i added enough ammonia to get 3 ppm. Next day it was still 3 ppm. A week later it was still 3 ppm. I ended up doing a 7 week fishless cycle before i could get fish. The main tank has a lot of plants, mainly slow growers but the surface is covered with floating plants which were water sprite at the time. Presumable there are very few bacteria in the filter media because of the plants.

The second time, I didn't bother with mature media. Instead, I moved 2 large water sprite floating plants and bought 2 bunches of elodea when I went fish shopping. Daily tests showed no trace of ammonia or nitrite in a 25 litre tank with 12 kuhli loaches.

Offline Vanadia

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Re: Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2020, 09:54:32 PM »
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@Littlefish The filter I did add to my quarantine tank did still have all the mature filter media in it. Thanks for the filter suggestions. I was using the Interpet PF Mini, which is supposed to be for 5 - 40 litres.

@Sue I hadn't thought of trying to use live plants in a quarantine tank before, but as mature filter media doesn't seem to work, it is something I will try next time. I have plenty of elodea and floating plants in my existing aquariums which might contain some bacteria.

Offline Matt

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Re: Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2020, 04:19:53 AM »
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Rather than the plants containing bacteria it is more that their photosynthesis utilises the ammonia excreted by the fish. As such it is important to ensure the quarantine tank is lighted if you go down this route as the plant will need the light to convert the ammonia from the fish into energy for their growth.

 I do think that many underestimate the power of plants for filtration.  Whilst flow is still needed in a health tank, I do sometimes wonder if my plants might not actually grow better if I removed my filter media from my filter as they prefer ammonia over the nitrate added in plant fertilisers.

Offline Sue

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Re: Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2020, 03:03:57 PM »
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I should have added that my QT does have a light over it (which lives in the cupboard when not in use). I also used an old, cheap filter just to move the water round, the only media was some filter wool to remove any bits floating in the water.

As Matt explained, plants use ammonia as their source of nitrogen and they don't turn it into nitrite or nitrate, they turn it into protein instead. Ammonia is the preferred source of nitrogen with most aquatic plants simply because if they take up nitrate they have to turn it into ammonia to make protein, so it takes less energy to take up ammonia.

Offline Vanadia

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Re: Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2020, 07:20:31 PM »
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That's good to know that plants can remove ammonia, without converting it to nitrite.  The nitrite stage of the cycle always seems to take the longest!


Offline Sue

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Re: Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2020, 08:48:13 PM »
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The faster growing the plant, the faster it takes up ammonia. Slow growers like java fern and anubias don't take up much; and at the other end of the scale are floating plants which take up more than other plants because they are very near the lights and can get CO2 from the air. Stem plants like elodea are also good at taking up ammonia, which is why I got some for the QT when I got the fish - and elodea is cheap.

Offline jaypeecee

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Re: Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2020, 09:11:22 PM »
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I do sometimes wonder if my plants might not actually grow better if I removed my filter media from my filter as they prefer ammonia over the nitrate added in plant fertilisers.

Hi @Matt

I did an experiment recently to check this out. And I hope to repeat the experiment soon. In short, I found that the plants (your plants, in fact) did not appear to take up the ammonium. Instead, nitrifying bacteria seemed to beat them to it - even with no filter! If you're interested, you can read more on t'other forum. You'll know the one I mean.

John

Offline Vanadia

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Re: Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2020, 01:19:55 PM »
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Unfortunately I lost another cory today, down to 2 now. It died suddenly, it was eating this morning and I found it stuck to the filter a few hours later. I also had a neon tetra (which I had had quite a few years) die yesterday as well. Unsure if it is a coincidence or if there is something going around my tank. Water parameters are all fine.

Offline Hampalong

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Re: Bronze Corys keep dying, bad stock or am I doing anything wrong?
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2021, 01:08:56 PM »
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I would guess the problem is the gravel. Gravel of any kind is never ok for Corys. It wears away the skin on the barbels causing sites for bacterial attack.

Also ime a substrate change is not very stressful for fish if done carefully while the fish are in the tank. Scoop it out with a margarine container, replace with a margarine container. Start at one end and work your way across. The fish are usually very interested in what’s going on....

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