New 64l Tank...qus On Filter And Also Plant Substrate With Sand

Hi All,
I'm new here. Ive kept goldfish before but going for my first tropical tank!

I was given a brand new 64L P@H tank.
I have used the Community Creator tool and am happy(ish) with my plans. My questions are;

1) I am going for sand substrate as I hope to keep corys. I think I would like to try live plants as fish seem to appreciate them but knowing that sand is harder for them to their roots to penetrate, should I invest in a layer of plant substrate first?
Not planning on being a plant expert - maybe a combo of real and plastic but nice for foraging in. Thought I should ask as its obviously something I cannot easily go back and add!! lol       or do I just risk without it?

2) It comes with an Interpet CF filter (open topped). I have read a lot about fish becoming trapped in/behind these. We could try to make a DIY cover but could be rather tricky/fiddly.  I also own an Interpet PF1, this would be on its limits of filtration. ideally I think I'd like to replace with a PF2 but tempted to use the PF1 as I have it, and some replacement filters - I have read others have used this but would limit fishy No.s
I'm aware filtration shouldn't be skimped on - water the most important thing but the ££ add up when setting up!

Thanks for any advice/opinions...
Suzie   

Welcome, Suzie

Another former goldfish keeper here, with a huge forever soft spot for them, and who converted over to tropical fishkeeping 2 years ago.

There are a few additional aspects to tropical fishkeeping which it sounds like you've gathered but in a nutshell are:
* type of fish chosen are best done depending on your water hardness ie find out your exact water hardness reading(s) and the unit(s) of measurement by inputting your postcode into your water/utility company's website - that will help work out which fish you can home in line with their requirements [eg in my case, I have very soft water, so wouldn't be able to give a suitable home to guppies, mollies, platies, but can to the species of fish I have - see my signature]
* type of fish chosen are best done in line with your tank dimensions and capacity, as you'll have gathered from this website's Fish Profiles /  Community Creator section; it's worth double-checking this against Seriously Fish as its website is more up-to-date
* some fish are better suited to being in shoals and therefore a minimum number of that particular species [this doesn't mean 6 tetras of various types but 6 of one type of tetra]
* choice of fish need to be compatible with one another.

It sounds as if you've gathered all this but it took me a while to do so, and stupidly, although I browsed the forum, I would have been better joining up first and asking questions or being given this sort of advice rather than only joining up and asking questions later down the line.

Re (1), I think a plant substrate such as soil would be a good idea. I've recently converted over to live plants and have some attached to wood but lots sitting in their pots from the LFS in the tank but wish I'd had a substrate in place so that I could plant them properly and they might fare much better - rather problematic for me to do now but I'd advise you to do it at this stage while you have the chance. You might also find this thread http://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/fish-tank-plant-advice/re-hornwort-ceratophyllum-demersum/ helpful.

Re 2), I have an open-topped filter - Marina i110. The way it works is that it sits high up and the water comes out like a waterfall, but the downside is that it means the waterline is about an inch lower than the black rim at the top of the tank which some folk find unsightly. I did have a fatality with a fish getting trapped behind the filter although I've now got filter wool stuffed in the location where it happened.

I can vouch for the quality of the Fluval U2 which Sue mentioned. However, if you're planning on having very small species of fish such as pygmy cories or that size, I'd be careful and maybe look into the Fluval U1 instead (ie find out if it would be suitable for a 64-litre tank). I had to put 3 pygmy cories in a QT and, rather than take my small second filter out of the main tank, I used my old Fluval U2. The 3 pygmy cories all suffered an unexpectedly sudden demise - even on the gentlest of its 3 settings, they seemed to be tossed around in the tank and I found one stuck/sheltering behind the filter on the filter bracket/sucker; I thought they were just having trouble adjusting to their temporary environment but realised too late that the filter flow must have been too much for them. Admittedly, the tank was a 21-litre tank, so possibly in a tank 3 times that volume/capacity, it would be ok, but I thought I should mention this. Personally, I think my Fluval U2 would be too bulky for my 54-litre tank and so use 2 small filters - the Marina i110 and another one of a similar size (the first one in this pic http://www.aquatics-online.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Clear_Jet_Internal_Power_Filters_225.html which I've had since the turn of the century although this particular filter was out of commission for a few years but resurrected last year.)

Hope this helps.

I have the same 64litre tank. The filter is not the best design but interpet (manufacturer of P@H Love Fish branded products, though they are very much a cheaper alternative) also offer an 87 litre aquarium which uses the same filter so it can (in their view) treat higher fish loading than would be possible in the 64 litre.  That said the P@H one does not come with the biomedia cartridge like the true interpret does.  I have added bio balls in a mesh bag (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B007VCHNMS/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1) to both replace but also improve upon the volume of available biological media in the original interpret filter (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Interpet-Internal-Cartridge-Filter-CF2/dp/B00ITQKZIE?th=1).  This fits nicely behind the carbon pad.  I very rarely replace the algaway pad which removes phosphates. This will be useful when you first set up the tank to limit algae growth and by the time the chemical wears out it will become a further biological treatment stage - just squeeze in dirty tank water to refresh it and replace.  Fish getting behind it hasn't been a problem for me, but jumping in has so I'd definitely recommend covering it in some way.  I'd also recommend a black background and heater cover as it nicely hides the equipment in the tank.

Hope that helps !

 

Update:
In the end I have not added a plant substrate (realise I may regret this later). Much of the plant advice and easy to keep plants seem to be the type that don't require rooting in substrate anyway - I can always try a little fertiliser liquid if I need too.
I have set the tank up with an anubias (turned out to be two when removed from pot) and 2 Moss balls.
I am on day 3 of my fishless cycle - ammonia has reduced but not much activity on the nitrite.

I was quite surprised at the vagueness of the API ammonia scale, looking for it <0.75ppm is a bit of a guessing game! (think we might have to take family votes on closest colour on chart!). Being a scientist, I am used to a bit more precision!!
How long do ppl leave it if the ammonia drops but nitrite does not pick up?? Worrying about a stall (I realise ive only just started but excited!)

Hi Suzie,

The anubias and moss balls are a good choice of plant - my two best-surviving plants in my recent venture into attempting to keep live plants... I might even go so far as to say that they're thriving (famous last words, though).

As for the filters, great idea to have two. I have 2 small filters too - you may have lost a little space but it allows a little more stocking capacity, gives peace of mind if one were to malfunction, and allows one to be taken out easily in the event of needing it in a quarantine tank.

Someone else will hopefully be able to help with your fishless cycle questions - many people are more experienced in this than me.

Looking forward to seeing your pics soon.

I was quite surprised at the vagueness of the API ammonia scale, looking for it <0.75ppm is a bit of a guessing game! (think we might have to take family votes on closest colour on chart!). Being a scientist, I am used to a bit more precision!!
How long do ppl leave it if the ammonia drops but nitrite does not pick up?? Worrying about a stall (I realise ive only just started but excited!)

The fishless cycling method I wrote up is mainly for those who don't have plants, but for plants to have a large impact there needs to be a lot of them (think jungle) rather than two anubias and two moss balls.
Since neither filter contains zeolite or something similar to remove ammonia, a fishless cycle should follow more or less the sticky thread.

What I did about 0.75 ammonia when I cycled a sponge filter for my betta earlier this year was to look for a colour that was greener than 0.5 but yellower than 1.0. It is not critical that the level in stage #6 is exactly at or below 0.75; just yellower than 1.0 will do. The thinking behind this method (according to the chap who devised it) is that if the instructions are followed as closely as our test kits allow, neither ammonia nor nitrite can ever get high enough to stall the cycle.

Once ammonia starts to fall you should see nitrite. It is usually when someone seeds the filter with mature media that odd readings can happen, such as going straight from ammonia to nitrate - caused by there being enough nitrite eaters to remove the nitrite as soon as it is produced.
It can take a while for ammonia to start to fall. During my fishless cycle in spring, my ammonia showed no signs of doing anything until day 28.



Out of idle curiosity, what is your science discipline? It is a long time since I worked, but my background is chemistry and I do agree about the testers we have. Nitrate is the worst of the lot! But also having studied biochemistry as my auxiliary subject at least I am familiar with the fact that biological entities never follow nice straight lines 

I also find it handy to use tap water as a control. If you are having trouble reading the ammonia you can compare it to the colour of the test done on the tap water. 

I have also gone down the route of syringes and extra tubes. I've also got myself a 96 test tube rack, which is handy as I have a lot of tanks to test.

Fair point about the allowed limits of stuff in tap water Sue.
My tap water nitrate is 40ppm, which is part of the reason I appreciate my floating plants 

Congratulations