Is My Water Ok?

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Offline tff_pb

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Is my water ok?
« on: June 22, 2016, 10:43:47 AM »
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I have a 180 litre tank, 150cm L x 40cm H x 30cm D. The tank has artificial plants, a log, a rock feature, a jar and gravel. I intend to add a slate hideaway. Filtration is by 2 x 180 Aquaball internal filters, one of which has one section filled with activated carbon.

I spend most of the first 3 months of each year away from home. My heater failed in Febrauary while I was away and I lost all my fish. When I returned home at the beginning of March, I removed everything from the tank, cleaned, put in a new heater, refilled and added the recommended amount of Fluval Cycle and Water Conditioner. Every month since, I've done a 25% water change and added the recommended amount of Fluval Cycle and Water Conditioner.

I've tested the tank water today, using a Tetra strip:
NO3: 10mg/l
NO2: 0mg/l
GH: 8 degrees
KH: 7.2 degrees
pH: 6.8
Cl: 0mg/l

My water supply is moderately hard, 15.4 Clarke hardness.

I want to start re-stocking the tank, but I don't know if the conditions are ok. If not, what should I do? Also, at what rate should I re-stock? Advice would be much appreciated.
   

Offline ColinB

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Re: Is my water ok?
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2016, 10:55:50 AM »
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Firstly; welcome to the forum.

Secondly and more; d'you intend to spend three months away each year because that sort of precludes keeping fish, unless there's someone else to do the necessary water changes and feeding?

You have no ammonia test showing and it doesn't sound like you've cycled your tank. Taking everything out and cleaning it has probably removed any of the denitrifying bacteria so you will need to cycle and test your tank, which means adding ammonia and monitoring it's progress as it's converted to Nitrite and then on to Nitrate.

This is a 'must read' if your tank isn't cycled: Fishless Cycling.

Once we know about the state of your cycle then we can help.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Panda Cory (7) - Honey Gourami (3) - Ember Tetra (9) - Lemon Tetra (4) - Cherry Barb (1) - Otocinclus (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Littlefish

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Re: Is my water ok?
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2016, 11:00:47 AM »
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Hi there tff_pb and welcome to the forum.  :wave:

Offline tff_pb

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Re: Is my water ok?
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2016, 01:40:31 PM »
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Firstly; welcome to the forum.

Secondly and more; d'you intend to spend three months away each year because that sort of precludes keeping fish, unless there's someone else to do the necessary water changes and feeding?

You have no ammonia test showing and it doesn't sound like you've cycled your tank. Taking everything out and cleaning it has probably removed any of the denitrifying bacteria so you will need to cycle and test your tank, which means adding ammonia and monitoring it's progress as it's converted to Nitrite and then on to Nitrate.

This is a 'must read' if your tank isn't cycled: Fishless Cycling.

Once we know about the state of your cycle then we can help.

Hello ColinB,

Thank you for your prompt reply.

During the first 3 months of the year, my neighbour feeds my fish while I'm away. I return home monthly and do a 25% water change.

I read the "Fishless Cycle" article and that prompted me to write to the Forum, as I hadn't done the fishless cycle. Unfortunately, the Tetra test strips don't include an ammonia test, so I'll need to get a testing kit that does. Can you recommend one?

 

Offline ColinB

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Re: Is my water ok?
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2016, 02:00:45 PM »
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*phew* on the feeding! :)

The standard one that's used is the API Freshwater test kit. The Nitrate Bottle #2 needs a really good shake before use, and the first time you use it smack it on the table a number of times to break up the sediment that will have collected at the bottom of the bottle.


A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Panda Cory (7) - Honey Gourami (3) - Ember Tetra (9) - Lemon Tetra (4) - Cherry Barb (1) - Otocinclus (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Richard W

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Re: Is my water ok?
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2016, 02:39:04 PM »
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You won't be able to do the fishless cycle properly with activated carbon in a filter, it's a waste of space really, and would be unlikely to last 3 months even if you renewed it before going away.
I'd recommend having two heaters instead of one if you are likely to be away in winter, the chances of both failing are pretty remote and they don't use any more electricity than one alone, just heat the water a bit faster. Having two filters is good safety practice, I'd have two heaters as well.

Offline Sue

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Re: Is my water ok?
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2016, 03:57:23 PM »
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Fluval Cycle is not highly regarded I'm afraid as few people have found it does much to help a cycle.
However, if you managed not to kill the bacteria in the filter media while cleaning, there maybe some left in a dormant state. If there are, it should help with a fishless cycle. You haven't had a source of ammonia in the tank since March, but the filter bacteria don't starve immediately. After a week or two they become dormant, then die after a few months. But the longer they are dormant, the longer it tales them to 'wake up'.

What you need to do is get that test kit that Colin recommended, buy a bottle of ammonia, put a sponge in the aquaball instead of the carbon, and follow the instructions in the fishless cycling method.
Some branches of Homebase sell ammonia in the house cleaning section; my local DIY shop sells Jeyes Kleen Off Household Ammonia; Ebay and Amazon sell ammonia, but make sure it just has ammonia/ammonium hydroxide and water, no perfume, detergent etc.

You just need to be patient. You'll be able to replace your fish in a couple of months. if you do a fishless cecle you'll be able to get most of the fish you want straight away, just leave any sensitive species for another 3 to 4 months.

Offline tff_pb

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Re: Is my water ok?
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2016, 10:05:25 AM »
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*phew* on the feeding! :)

The standard one that's used is the API Freshwater test kit. The Nitrate Bottle #2 needs a really good shake before use, and the first time you use it smack it on the table a number of times to break up the sediment that will have collected at the bottom of the bottle.



Hi Colin,

I've tested the water for ammonia using an API test strip this morning. The result is 0. Please advise further.

Offline tff_pb

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Re: Is my water ok?
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2016, 10:10:00 AM »
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You won't be able to do the fishless cycle properly with activated carbon in a filter, it's a waste of space really, and would be unlikely to last 3 months even if you renewed it before going away.
I'd recommend having two heaters instead of one if you are likely to be away in winter, the chances of both failing are pretty remote and they don't use any more electricity than one alone, just heat the water a bit faster. Having two filters is good safety practice, I'd have two heaters as well.

Hi Richard,

Thanks for your advice. I'll replace the activated carbon with the mesh in that section of the filter. After what happened, a second heater seems a good idea. I'll get one.

Offline tff_pb

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Re: Is my water ok?
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2016, 10:22:18 AM »
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Fluval Cycle is not highly regarded I'm afraid as few people have found it does much to help a cycle.
However, if you managed not to kill the bacteria in the filter media while cleaning, there maybe some left in a dormant state. If there are, it should help with a fishless cycle. You haven't had a source of ammonia in the tank since March, but the filter bacteria don't starve immediately. After a week or two they become dormant, then die after a few months. But the longer they are dormant, the longer it tales them to 'wake up'.

What you need to do is get that test kit that Colin recommended, buy a bottle of ammonia, put a sponge in the aquaball instead of the carbon, and follow the instructions in the fishless cycling method.
Some branches of Homebase sell ammonia in the house cleaning section; my local DIY shop sells Jeyes Kleen Off Household Ammonia; Ebay and Amazon sell ammonia, but make sure it just has ammonia/ammonium hydroxide and water, no perfume, detergent etc.

You just need to be patient. You'll be able to replace your fish in a couple of months. if you do a fishless cecle you'll be able to get most of the fish you want straight away, just leave any sensitive species for another 3 to 4 months.

Hi Sue,

Thanks so much for your reply.

What would you recommend to replace the Fluval Cycle, given what you say about it?
I will replace the activated carbon with the sponge in that section of the filter, as you advise.
I've tested the water for ammonia using an API test strip this morning. The result is 0. Do I follow the instructions in the fishless cycling method now? 

Offline Sue

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Re: Is my water ok?
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2016, 10:42:30 AM »
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You have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and 10 nitrate according to what you have posted.
It is likely that 10 ppm nitrate is in your tap water - check your tap water for nitrate.

The reason both ammonia and nitrite are zero is because there is no source of ammonia in the tank. You may or may not have any ammonia eating and nitrite eating bacteria left from when there were fish, and possibly some ammonia eaters from the Fluval Cycle (which contains the wrong species of nitrite eaters, the main reason it doesn't seem to work). But you won't know if there are any bacteria until you add a source of ammonia form either a bottle or fish.

You have a choice.
Either you get get a few fish and be prepared to do daily water changes if either ammonia or nitrite ever show a reading above zero. This will mean doing a fish-in cycle
Or get a bottle of ammonia and add some of that. If you have zero ammonia and zero nitrite after 24 hours, it is safe to get fish. if you don't then you know you need to do a fishless cycle

Fishless is much easier.


You have a 180 litre tank. If you buy a bottle of 9.5% ammonia, you will need to add 5.7 ml of that to get a level of 3 ppm in the tank water. Kleen Off Household Ammonia is 9.5%, that's what I've got. If the bottle gives a different strength, post it here and I'll tell you the amount to add.
Adding a dose of ammonia will tell you after a day if your tank is ready for fish, and if it's not, you can make the decision whether to continue adding ammonia or do a fish-in cycle.

If you want to try a different bottled bacteria, get Tetra Safe Start. This one does have the right species of nitrite eaters. But it is not guaranteed to work. If it has not been stored correctly at any time between the factory and your tank the bacteria inside will be dead, and this has been known to happen. But again, it does need a source of ammonia in the tank. The bottle will say to use fish to make the ammonia but it is much safer for the fish to use a bottle of ammonia.

Offline tff_pb

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Re: Is my water ok?
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2016, 09:58:14 AM »
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You have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and 10 nitrate according to what you have posted.
It is likely that 10 ppm nitrate is in your tap water - check your tap water for nitrate.

The reason both ammonia and nitrite are zero is because there is no source of ammonia in the tank. You may or may not have any ammonia eating and nitrite eating bacteria left from when there were fish, and possibly some ammonia eaters from the Fluval Cycle (which contains the wrong species of nitrite eaters, the main reason it doesn't seem to work). But you won't know if there are any bacteria until you add a source of ammonia form either a bottle or fish.

You have a choice.
Either you get get a few fish and be prepared to do daily water changes if either ammonia or nitrite ever show a reading above zero. This will mean doing a fish-in cycle
Or get a bottle of ammonia and add some of that. If you have zero ammonia and zero nitrite after 24 hours, it is safe to get fish. if you don't then you know you need to do a fishless cycle

Fishless is much easier.


You have a 180 litre tank. If you buy a bottle of 9.5% ammonia, you will need to add 5.7 ml of that to get a level of 3 ppm in the tank water. Kleen Off Household Ammonia is 9.5%, that's what I've got. If the bottle gives a different strength, post it here and I'll tell you the amount to add.
Adding a dose of ammonia will tell you after a day if your tank is ready for fish, and if it's not, you can make the decision whether to continue adding ammonia or do a fish-in cycle.

If you want to try a different bottled bacteria, get Tetra Safe Start. This one does have the right species of nitrite eaters. But it is not guaranteed to work. If it has not been stored correctly at any time between the factory and your tank the bacteria inside will be dead, and this has been known to happen. But again, it does need a source of ammonia in the tank. The bottle will say to use fish to make the ammonia but it is much safer for the fish to use a bottle of ammonia.

Hello Sue,

Many thanks again for your advice.

My water supplier states that the nitrate level of my tap water is 4.78mg NO3/l.

I will get a bottle of Kleen Off Household Ammonia and add 5.7ml to the tank as you recommend. I will test the ammonia level after one day and let you know the result.

You say that its much safer for the fish to use a bottle of ammonia than to rely on the fish to produce it. I test the water one day after I do the water change, so in future, I will test for ammonia as well. Do I adjust to 3ppm if necessary?   

Offline Sue

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Re: Is my water ok?
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2016, 12:15:19 PM »
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Once you've added the ammonia and tested after 24 hours, you'll find one of two things.

Both ammonia and nitrite might be zero. In this case, do a small water change (you will only have added 1 dose of ammonia so you won't need to do a big one) and go out and buy fish. If you can't go for a few days, add one third of the amount of ammonia every couple of days till you can go, but leave the water change until the day before shopping. Make sure there is no ammonia or nitrite before you get fish in this  case.

Or you may have a reading above zero for either ammonia or nitrite or both. In this case the tank is not cycled and you need to wait before getting fish until it is cycled.
Because there may be some bacteria you probably won't be right at the beginning of the cycle. Post the numbers and we'll see if we can work out which stage to start at in the method in the Cycling section.

Offline tff_pb

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Re: Is my water ok?
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2016, 11:59:14 AM »
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Once you've added the ammonia and tested after 24 hours, you'll find one of two things.

Both ammonia and nitrite might be zero. In this case, do a small water change (you will only have added 1 dose of ammonia so you won't need to do a big one) and go out and buy fish. If you can't go for a few days, add one third of the amount of ammonia every couple of days till you can go, but leave the water change until the day before shopping. Make sure there is no ammonia or nitrite before you get fish in this  case.

Or you may have a reading above zero for either ammonia or nitrite or both. In this case the tank is not cycled and you need to wait before getting fish until it is cycled.
Because there may be some bacteria you probably won't be right at the beginning of the cycle. Post the numbers and we'll see if we can work out which stage to start at in the method in the Cycling section.

Hello Sue,

I added 5.7ml of Kleen Off Household Ammonia to the tank water, as you recommend, yesterday morning using a graduated syringe. I've tested the water after 24 hours.

The results I reported on 22 June, using a Tetra 6in1 strip:
NO3: 10mg/l
NO2: 0mg/l
GH: 8 degrees
KH: 7.2 degrees
pH: 6.8
Cl: 0mg/l

The results today, using a Tetra 6in1 strip:
NO3: 0mg/l
NO2: 0mg/l
GH: 16 degrees
KH: 3 degrees
pH: 6.8
Cl: 0mg/l

The result I reported on 25 June, using an API test strip:
0 mg/l

The result today, using an API test strip:
1.0mg/l

Please advise further.

Offline Sue

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Re: Is my water ok?
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2016, 02:50:35 PM »
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The 0 ammonia on 25 June, was that before you added ammonia? And today it is 1.0. Did you add the ammonia yesterday? If you did, it has dropped from what should have been 3.0 to 1.0 in 24 hours, which is good.

But nitrite was 0 on both days and nitrate has dropped from 10 to 0.
And I see that GH has has doubled and KH has halved  ???

Unless you have something in the tank made of calcium (eg the substrate or shell or a piece of limestone rock) there is no way that GH can double. Even with those things in the tank, GH would not have increased by that much in just over a week.

And if the ammonia has dropped it must have gone somewhere. In a tank it is either used by live plants as plant food or it is converted to nitrite. If there enough nitrite eaters, that nitrite is converted to nitrate.
But in your case, you've lost 2ppm ammonia, not seen any nitrite and lost 10ppm nitrate.

Unless your tank is planted like a jungle, your readings don't make sense  :-\





Can you use your strips to test your tap water please. The pH results will most likely be different from the tank so ignore pH.

Then test the ammonia of the tank, add another 5.7 ml ammonia and test the tank for ammonia again 30 minutes after adding it (30 mins to allow the dose to mix in thoroughly). This is to check that the 5.7 ml do contain 3 ppm ammonia. The 'after 30 mins' result should be 3 ppm higher than the test immediately before adding the ammonia.
And test everything again after 24 hours.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Is my water ok?
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2016, 09:41:04 PM »
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And I see that GH has has doubled and KH has halved  ???
Unless you have something in the tank made of calcium (eg the substrate or shell or a piece of limestone rock) there is no way that GH can double. Even with those things in the tank, GH would not have increased by that much in just over a week.
I agree completely with this, as someone who has limestone rock in my own tank. I do find the test strips unreliable for KH and GH (can often give a high reading when actually both my KH and GH are low), and they tend to give a lower-than-expected reading for PH, but all the other readings are usually very accurate.


Offline tff_pb

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Re: Is my water ok?
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2016, 11:33:05 PM »
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The 0 ammonia on 25 June, was that before you added ammonia? And today it is 1.0. Did you add the ammonia yesterday? If you did, it has dropped from what should have been 3.0 to 1.0 in 24 hours, which is good.

But nitrite was 0 on both days and nitrate has dropped from 10 to 0.
And I see that GH has has doubled and KH has halved  ???

Unless you have something in the tank made of calcium (eg the substrate or shell or a piece of limestone rock) there is no way that GH can double. Even with those things in the tank, GH would not have increased by that much in just over a week.

And if the ammonia has dropped it must have gone somewhere. In a tank it is either used by live plants as plant food or it is converted to nitrite. If there enough nitrite eaters, that nitrite is converted to nitrate.
But in your case, you've lost 2ppm ammonia, not seen any nitrite and lost 10ppm nitrate.

Unless your tank is planted like a jungle, your readings don't make sense  :-\





Can you use your strips to test your tap water please. The pH results will most likely be different from the tank so ignore pH.

Then test the ammonia of the tank, add another 5.7 ml ammonia and test the tank for ammonia again 30 minutes after adding it (30 mins to allow the dose to mix in thoroughly). This is to check that the 5.7 ml do contain 3 ppm ammonia. The 'after 30 mins' result should be 3 ppm higher than the test immediately before adding the ammonia.
And test everything again after 24 hours.

Hello Sue,

My tank has artificial plants but isn't planted like a jungle. It has a large rock which may be limestone. It is pale buff in colour. There is also a log and a jar with holes. All have been bought from aquarium suppliers.

The ammonia test ammonia on 25 June was 0. I added the 5.7ml of Kleen Off Household Ammonia on 30 June and tested 1.0 after 24 hours.

I'll carry out the tests your advise and let you know the results. 

Offline tff_pb

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Re: Is my water ok?
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2016, 11:37:48 PM »
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And I see that GH has has doubled and KH has halved  ???
Unless you have something in the tank made of calcium (eg the substrate or shell or a piece of limestone rock) there is no way that GH can double. Even with those things in the tank, GH would not have increased by that much in just over a week.
I agree completely with this, as someone who has limestone rock in my own tank. I do find the test strips unreliable for KH and GH (can often give a high reading when actually both my KH and GH are low), and they tend to give a lower-than-expected reading for PH, but all the other readings are usually very accurate.

Thank you for your information. My tank does have a large rock and it may well be limestone. It is light buff in colour.

Offline Sue

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Re: Is my water ok?
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2016, 12:22:56 PM »
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This is what I'd do next -
test the ammonia level in the tank.
add 5.7 ml ammonia
after 30 minutes test ammonia again. The 30 minutes is to allow the ammonia to mix in thoroughly.

In theory the test 30 minutes after adding ammonia should be the level before you add ammonia plus 3 ppm. If it's not, then your bottle of ammonia is not full strength. Using an on-line calculator, 5.7ml of 9.5% ammonia added to 180 litres of water should give 3 ppm. If for some reason your bottle is less than 9.5% it will give less than 3 ppm.

Doing this (test, add ammonia, test again) will eliminate the possibility that the strength of the ammonia bottle is the problem - or it may confirm that it is the problem.




If you have only artificial plants, they cannot affect the ammonia level. Only real plants do this as they absorb ammonia and use it as fertiliser.

Offline Sue

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Re: Is my water ok?
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2016, 12:25:20 PM »
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Another thought occurs to me. Do you have zeolite in your filter? Or anything else designed to absorb ammonia?

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