Author Topic: Is my water ok? (Read 18761 times) 57 replies

tff_pb · « **Reply #20 on:** July 03, 2016, 10:52:14 AM »

Quote from: Sue on July 02, 2016, 12:25:20 PM

Another thought occurs to me. Do you have zeolite in your filter? Or anything else designed to absorb ammonia?

Hello Sue,

I only have artificial plant. The filters only contain sponges, except for one section of one filter. That contains activated carbon but I intend to replace it with a sponge on the advice of Richard W on 22 June.

Results of the tests you asked me to do.
-Each test has been done twice.
-NH3/NH4 test done using API test strips.
-All other tests done using Tetra 6in1 test strips.

Test 1: Tap water, 02 July:
NO3: 0 mg/l
NO2: 0 mg/l
GH: 16 degrees
KH: 6.0 degrees
pH: 7.6
Cl2: 0.8
NH3/NH4: 0 mg/l

Test 2: Tank, 02 July:
NH3/NH4: 1 mg/l

Test 3: Tank, 02 July, 30 mins. after adding 5.7ml of Kleen Off Household Ammonia:
NH3/NH4: 3+ (probably 4) mg/l

Test 4: Tank after 24 hours, 03 July:
NO3: 0 mg/l
NO2: 0 mg/l
GH: 16 degrees
KH: 3.0-6.0 degrees
pH: 6.8-7.2
Cl2: 0
NH3/NH4: 3+ (probably 4) mg/l

Algae grew rapidly after I refilled the tank following the heater failure. The tank became covered in almost black algae but this has declined over the months following monthly tank cleans. Now, the gravel is full of algae, maybe as a result of scrapping it of the tank glass. I have tried to dredge up the algae at each tank clean but could not dredge up most of it.

I look forward to your further advice.

Sue · « **Reply #21 on:** July 03, 2016, 01:55:44 PM »

Thank you for doing the tests.

Your ammonia readings confirm that adding 5.7 ml ammonia adds 3 ppm. So when it dropped to 1 ppm, 2 ppm of the amount you added have gone somewhere.
You may not have live plants but you do have algae. So I should say that you do have live plants in the form of algae. I wonder if that's where the ammonia is going.

Your nitrite, nitrate and GH are the same, so the ammonia hasn't been turned into nitrite and on to nitrate. And having zero nitrate in your tap water means that any rise in tank nitrate is due to the nitrogen cycle making it from ammonia.

Both your KH and pH are lower in the tank than tap water. Natural processes in the tank tend to make acids, and these will use up KH and allow the pH to fall.

I think you need to get rid of the algae. Is it loose or growing on the gravel? If it is loose, the answer might be to scoop out all the gravel and wash it, and siphon up anything on the bottom of the tank before putting the cleaned gravel back.
If it's attached to the gravel it won't be as easy. Since you have no fish and no live pants other than algae, leave the lights off as they'll only help the algae to grow. Maybe do a good clean and gravel siphon very soon to get rid of as much loose algae as possible.
A few days after this big clean, scoop some water from the tank and gently clean the filter. The media will probably be full of bits of algae.

Once all or most of the algae has gone you can cycle the tank. I do think getting rid of the algae is the first priority - you won't want it once you have fish again and it is easier to get rid of it when there are no fish in the tank.
Don't have the lights on again until you are about to get fish.

tff_pb · « **Reply #22 on:** July 04, 2016, 11:54:20 AM »

Quote from: Sue on July 03, 2016, 01:55:44 PM

Thank you for doing the tests.

Your ammonia readings confirm that adding 5.7 ml ammonia adds 3 ppm. So when it dropped to 1 ppm, 2 ppm of the amount you added have gone somewhere.
You may not have live plants but you do have algae. So I should say that you do have live plants in the form of algae. I wonder if that's where the ammonia is going.

Your nitrite, nitrate and GH are the same, so the ammonia hasn't been turned into nitrite and on to nitrate. And having zero nitrate in your tap water means that any rise in tank nitrate is due to the nitrogen cycle making it from ammonia.

Both your KH and pH are lower in the tank than tap water. Natural processes in the tank tend to make acids, and these will use up KH and allow the pH to fall.

I think you need to get rid of the algae. Is it loose or growing on the gravel? If it is loose, the answer might be to scoop out all the gravel and wash it, and siphon up anything on the bottom of the tank before putting the cleaned gravel back.
If it's attached to the gravel it won't be as easy. Since you have no fish and no live pants other than algae, leave the lights off as they'll only help the algae to grow. Maybe do a good clean and gravel siphon very soon to get rid of as much loose algae as possible.
A few days after this big clean, scoop some water from the tank and gently clean the filter. The media will probably be full of bits of algae.

Once all or most of the algae has gone you can cycle the tank. I do think getting rid of the algae is the first priority - you won't want it once you have fish again and it is easier to get rid of it when there are no fish in the tank.
Don't have the lights on again until you are about to get fish.

Hello Sue,

Many thank for your advice.

The algae is largely loose in the gravel, so I'll do you suggest to remove the algae and clean the filters this week. I'll let you know when its done.

tff_pb · « **Reply #23 on:** July 08, 2016, 02:56:06 PM »

Quote from: Sue on July 03, 2016, 01:55:44 PM

Thank you for doing the tests.

Your ammonia readings confirm that adding 5.7 ml ammonia adds 3 ppm. So when it dropped to 1 ppm, 2 ppm of the amount you added have gone somewhere.
You may not have live plants but you do have algae. So I should say that you do have live plants in the form of algae. I wonder if that's where the ammonia is going.

Your nitrite, nitrate and GH are the same, so the ammonia hasn't been turned into nitrite and on to nitrate. And having zero nitrate in your tap water means that any rise in tank nitrate is due to the nitrogen cycle making it from ammonia.

Both your KH and pH are lower in the tank than tap water. Natural processes in the tank tend to make acids, and these will use up KH and allow the pH to fall.

I think you need to get rid of the algae. Is it loose or growing on the gravel? If it is loose, the answer might be to scoop out all the gravel and wash it, and siphon up anything on the bottom of the tank before putting the cleaned gravel back.
If it's attached to the gravel it won't be as easy. Since you have no fish and no live pants other than algae, leave the lights off as they'll only help the algae to grow. Maybe do a good clean and gravel siphon very soon to get rid of as much loose algae as possible.
A few days after this big clean, scoop some water from the tank and gently clean the filter. The media will probably be full of bits of algae.

Once all or most of the algae has gone you can cycle the tank. I do think getting rid of the algae is the first priority - you won't want it once you have fish again and it is easier to get rid of it when there are no fish in the tank.
Don't have the lights on again until you are about to get fish.

Hi Sue,

I've switched off all the services to the tank.

I've tried dredging and also scooping up the gravel. Both result in a lot of loose algae floating around the tank which eventually settles. Also, some of the gravel has a partial algae coating.

Should I empty the tank of water, remove the gravel into a large, plastic tray, soak the gravel in diluted bleach to remove the algae, then wash the gravel in tap water?

Sue · « **Reply #24 on:** July 08, 2016, 05:09:45 PM »

That could be the easiest way, though refill the tank with enough dechlorinated water to keep the filter running just in case you do have bacteria alive in there.

For bleach use either cheap supermarket basic range bleach (the stuff that costs a few p a bottle) as that is just bleach, no perfume, surfactant, detergent etc. Or baby bottle sterilising solution, again supermarket own brand as that is cheaper than Milton. For basic range bleach use 1 part bleach to 9 parts water (making a 1 in 10 solution), and for baby bottle steriliser, make up as per the instructions.

Then rinse, rinse and rinse again, then soak for an hour in water overdosed with dechlorinator. Bleach is just a source of chlorine.

tff_pb · « **Reply #25 on:** July 14, 2016, 09:54:47 AM »

Quote from: Sue on July 08, 2016, 05:09:45 PM

That could be the easiest way, though refill the tank with enough dechlorinated water to keep the filter running just in case you do have bacteria alive in there.

For bleach use either cheap supermarket basic range bleach (the stuff that costs a few p a bottle) as that is just bleach, no perfume, surfactant, detergent etc. Or baby bottle sterilising solution, again supermarket own brand as that is cheaper than Milton. For basic range bleach use 1 part bleach to 9 parts water (making a 1 in 10 solution), and for baby bottle steriliser, make up as per the instructions.

Then rinse, rinse and rinse again, then soak for an hour in water overdosed with dechlorinator. Bleach is just a source of chlorine.

Hello Sue,

Thank you again for your advice. I'll do what you say and get back to you when I've done it.

tff_pb · « **Reply #26 on:** August 03, 2016, 02:56:35 PM »

Quote from: tff_pb on July 14, 2016, 09:54:47 AM

Quote from: Sue on July 08, 2016, 05:09:45 PM
That could be the easiest way, though refill the tank with enough dechlorinated water to keep the filter running just in case you do have bacteria alive in there.

For bleach use either cheap supermarket basic range bleach (the stuff that costs a few p a bottle) as that is just bleach, no perfume, surfactant, detergent etc. Or baby bottle sterilising solution, again supermarket own brand as that is cheaper than Milton. For basic range bleach use 1 part bleach to 9 parts water (making a 1 in 10 solution), and for baby bottle steriliser, make up as per the instructions.

Then rinse, rinse and rinse again, then soak for an hour in water overdosed with dechlorinator. Bleach is just a source of chlorine.

Hello Sue,

Thank you again for your advice. I'll do what you say and get back to you when I've done it.

Hi Sue,

I removed the gravel together with most of the algae from the tank using a small shovel, put the gravel into a large plastic box and soaked in a 1:10 bleach solution for 5 days, stirring the gravel each day. I didn't remove the tank water. Removing the gravel caused the algae to float about the tank, but it settled on the bottom so I was able to dredge most of it up. I cleaned the filters and plants etc., and put the filters back in the tank with the water heater on, but no lighting. My aquarium supplier recommended covering the tank completely to kill any remaining algae. The tank has been completely covered for 5 days too.

To clean the gravel, I placed some in a large plastic tray with drain holes and ran tap water through it while stirring, and repeated until all the gravel was thoroughly washed.

Today, I've dredged the remaining [brown] algae from the tank and put the gravel in. I've topped up the tank with tap water and added water conditioner. The two filters are running at maximum flow and the water heater is on at 30degC. The lighting is off.

Should I add the biological enhancer now or wait?

Should I cover the tank again?

Do I start cycling the tank after 24 hours?

Sue · « **Reply #27 on:** August 03, 2016, 07:17:14 PM »

Which product do you mean by biological enhancer? If it is one that does often work, it is better to add it at the same time you add ammonia so that any live bacteria in the bottle have something to feed on.

Covering the tank will help prevent algae growing again during cycling, though just leaving the lights off will help.

I would wait overnight before starting the cycle.

tff_pb · « **Reply #28 on:** August 04, 2016, 08:00:06 AM »

Quote from: Sue on August 03, 2016, 07:17:14 PM

Which product do you mean by biological enhancer? If it is one that does often work, it is better to add it at the same time you add ammonia so that any live bacteria in the bottle have something to feed on.

Covering the tank will help prevent algae growing again during cycling, though just leaving the lights off will help.

I would wait overnight before starting the cycle.

Hi Sue,

I use Fluval Cycle. My tank capacity = 180L. I added 50L yesterday.

The instructions on the bottle are:
New aquarium: Day1 - 25ml/40L, Day2 - 10ml/40L, Day3 - 10ml/40L, then dose weekly 5ml/40L.
After water changes: 5ml/40L

Which dose do you recommend?

Sue · « **Reply #29 on:** August 04, 2016, 10:40:35 AM »

Unfortunately that one is not highly regarded. It is unlikely to do much. Maybe it'll help with the ammonia eaters but it contains the wrong species of nitrite eaters. But use it by all means, even speeding up the first part - growing the ammonia eaters - will help.
Use at the new tank dosage, and once the tank is cycled don't bother with it. Please don't believe any hype that says it is safe to add fish at the same time. It isn't. Even if it worked perfectly it would still take a week or two before it was safe for fish. Using these bacterial supplements to boost a fishless cycle is the best way, then you know for sure that there are enough bacteria for a tankful of fish.

tff_pb · « **Reply #30 on:** August 04, 2016, 11:02:17 AM »

Quote from: Sue on August 04, 2016, 10:40:35 AM

Unfortunately that one is not highly regarded. It is unlikely to do much. Maybe it'll help with the ammonia eaters but it contains the wrong species of nitrite eaters. But use it by all means, even speeding up the first part - growing the ammonia eaters - will help.
Use at the new tank dosage, and once the tank is cycled don't bother with it. Please don't believe any hype that says it is safe to add fish at the same time. It isn't. Even if it worked perfectly it would still take a week or two before it was safe for fish. Using these bacterial supplements to boost a fishless cycle is the best way, then you know for sure that there are enough bacteria for a tankful of fish.

Hi Sue,

Thanks so much for your advice. I normally add Fluval Cycle after monthly 25% water changes. Should I stop doing this after the tank is cycled, or should I use another brand instead?

Sue · « **Reply #31 on:** August 04, 2016, 11:05:54 AM »

There are two points arising from your post.

1. Once a tank is cycled, you do not need to add any biological enhancer. You already have all the bacteria you need.

2. Your water changes should be weekly not monthly. Nitrate and other things we can't test for (eg other waste products, fish hormones etc) will build up quite a lot in a month.

tff_pb · « **Reply #32 on:** August 18, 2016, 10:39:02 AM »

Quote from: Sue on August 04, 2016, 11:05:54 AM

There are two points arising from your post.

1. Once a tank is cycled, you do not need to add any biological enhancer. You already have all the bacteria you need.

2. Your water changes should be weekly not monthly. Nitrate and other things we can't test for (eg other waste products, fish hormones etc) will build up quite a lot in a month.

Hello Sue,

I added 35ml to my 180 lite tank at the start of the cycle. The tank water wasn't completely changed and some of the water contained some ammonia from the tests I'd done. Attached are the test results to date.

I've reached the point in the cycle where I need to more ammonia but I'm unsure whether to add 35ml or less. Please advise.

Sue · « **Reply #33 on:** August 18, 2016, 11:20:50 AM »

Looking at your results, I think the thing to do first is a big water change. Why? Your nitrate is very high (250) which can also stall the cycle, and your pH has dropped significantly due to all that nitrate. With a high KH it takes a lot to do that.
By big, I mean change nearly all the water. And I do realise that will take ages as I have a tank the same size.

The problem is the amount of ammonia you added. I am currently adding 3 ppm ammonia to my 180 litre tank every third day to keep the bacteria fed till the shop gets my fish in. I am adding just 5.7 ml of 9.5% ammonia. You added 35 ml which is just about 6 times more than I'm adding, ie 18 ppm which is way too much. You need to add just enough ammonia to get 3 ppm not >6 as you had.

Once you've emptied virtually all the water, add ammonia to give a reading of 3 ppm half an hour after adding it (to allow it to mix in). What is the % of your ammonia? If it's 9.5% you need 5.7 ml not 35. I have Kleen Off Household Ammonia which doesn't say on the bottle but is 9.5%.
Then go to step #7 in the method in the Filtration and Cycling section and carry on from there. Test for both ammonia and nitrite every second day, and as soon as you get two zero readings for ammonia, you'll be at stage 10. This means zero ammonia on the 2nd and 4th day after adding the ammonia, or the 4th and 6th, or the 6th and 8th etc, however long it takes.

tff_pb · « **Reply #34 on:** December 03, 2016, 09:31:55 AM »

Quote from: Sue on August 18, 2016, 11:20:50 AM

Looking at your results, I think the thing to do first is a big water change. Why? Your nitrate is very high (250) which can also stall the cycle, and your pH has dropped significantly due to all that nitrate. With a high KH it takes a lot to do that.
By big, I mean change nearly all the water. And I do realise that will take ages as I have a tank the same size.

The problem is the amount of ammonia you added. I am currently adding 3 ppm ammonia to my 180 litre tank every third day to keep the bacteria fed till the shop gets my fish in. I am adding just 5.7 ml of 9.5% ammonia. You added 35 ml which is just about 6 times more than I'm adding, ie 18 ppm which is way too much. You need to add just enough ammonia to get 3 ppm not >6 as you had.

Once you've emptied virtually all the water, add ammonia to give a reading of 3 ppm half an hour after adding it (to allow it to mix in). What is the % of your ammonia? If it's 9.5% you need 5.7 ml not 35. I have Kleen Off Household Ammonia which doesn't say on the bottle but is 9.5%.
Then go to step #7 in the method in the Filtration and Cycling section and carry on from there. Test for both ammonia and nitrite every second day, and as soon as you get two zero readings for ammonia, you'll be at stage 10. This means zero ammonia on the 2nd and 4th day after adding the ammonia, or the 4th and 6th, or the 6th and 8th etc, however long it takes.

Hello Sue,

After some long delay, I finally followed your instructions and cycled my tank without any issues and have started re-stocking with the first batch of fish. I have turned my attention to water changes and your flow chart. My water quality is 16dGH and I use plastic plants. I am about to do a water change in preparation for the next batch of fish.

Formally I did a 50% water change every 4 weeks by dredging the gravel and removing the rock, jar, plastic plants and granite stones and soaking these in a very mild bleach solution to remove algae. Now, I am going to adopt your more regular 10% or 20% water change regime according to your flow chart:
1. Do I need to dredge and clean these items each time?
2. Do I test for ammonia and nitrates each time?
3. What nitrate removing media do you recommend?

Sue · « **Reply #35 on:** December 03, 2016, 09:58:56 AM »

First of all, for a well stocked tank and no live plants, I would change at least 30% a week. With live plants it can be less because the plants will use some nitrate as fertiliser. But a lot of nitrate is not good for fish, and in the absence of live plants, water changes are the best way to remove the nitrate made by the nitrogen cycle.
As a rough guide, you should keep your nitrate level less than the amount in your tap water plus 20. It will be highest just before a water change, so this is the time to check your reading.

I have never used nitrate removing media so I'm afraid I can't help with that. I am lucky that my tap water has under 5 ppm nitrate so it is easy for me to keep my nitrate low.

When I had gravel, at every water change I used the gravel siphon to suck the debris out of the gravel. I moved decor to one side to 'hoover' under it. With no plants growing in the substrate, the muck (fish poo, uneaten food) will just sit there unless you suck it out.

I never bleach any decor. The simplest way to remove algae is to buy a cheap toothbrush and just scrub the rock or whatever in old tank water.
However, you can try to stop the algae growing in the first place. Keeping your nitrate level low will help, as will not having the lights on very long. How long are they on for at the moment?
Another way to help with algae is by having live plants. You don't need to get a jungle, but some floating plants would help enormously. These float - obviously - and are near the lights so they don't need anything fancy. They are on the surface so they can absorb carbon dioxide from the air so you don't need to add that. And fish like to have a shaded area in the tank. Look at Salvinia for small plants or water lettuce and Amazon frogbit for larger plants. Even duckweed would help.

As for checking levels in the tank, maybe check ammonia and nitrite after each water change for a few weeks to be sure they stay at zero, then test whenever you feel like it.
I would test nitrate before and half an hour after each water change for a while. And test your tap water so you know what the nitrate in the new water is.
The amount in the tap water will give you a base line to work from. If the tank nitrate just before a water change is more than 20 higher than the tap reading, you need to do a big (and I mean big) water change. If the after water change nitrate is still 10 or more above tap water level, you need to do another water change because in a week it will get higher still, probably back over tap + 20.

Littlefish · « **Reply #36 on:** December 03, 2016, 10:31:38 AM »

I have a lot of nitrate (40) in my tap water, and am now a BIG fan of floating plants. They have helped me to keep nitrates at a level lower than that found in the tap water, even just before a water change. I have to move them between tanks because the fish in my temperate tanks (platies, I'm talking about you) nibble on the roots, so I move the plants to other tanks to recover.
As for a toothbrush for the fish tanks, a piece of advice I read on this forum, and it has turned out to be one of the cheapest and most effective cleaning tools ever.

Andy The Minion · « **Reply #37 on:** December 04, 2016, 09:21:19 AM »

For the Nerds out there you (I) can calculate how much water needs to be changed if you want. You just need to know three things. The Nitrates in tap water, Tank water volume (the actual volume less all the substrate, decorations and the air at the top) and Nitrate in the tank water, then....

Water volume change = (Target Nitrate (20ppm) in Sue's advice minus Tank Nitrate ppm) Divided by (Tap Nitrates ppm minus Tank Nitrates ppm) and multiple the answer by the Tank Water Volume.
I keep a water log in Excel so it does it for me, I also get it to calculate the number of cm of water I need to take out while syphoning. BTW before you write in, I know I'm sad

The only other thing is the target Nitrate levels, Sue and I work to 20ppm because I think we are both Fish with Plants tanks but a Plants with Fish person might suggest something a bit higher to bias towards plant growth.

Sue · « **Reply #38 on:** December 04, 2016, 09:38:44 AM »

I only got into live plants in the last couple of years, before that I had silk plants, and before they were plastic. So most of what I say is aimed at a tank that has no live plants or maybe a few slow growing ones. I leave heavily planted tanks to those who have them

There are some tanks that are planted like jungles with few fish. With this type of tank the owner often has to add nitrate as the plants use it up faster than the fish can make the ammonia - plants will use ammonia before the filter bacteria can turn it into nitrate. Obviously with jungle tanks you can't use nitrate as a water change guide.

adenann · « **Reply #39 on:** December 04, 2016, 02:13:53 PM »

@Andy the minion
When you say "Target Nitrate (20ppm)", do you mean actually 20ppm or 20ppm above Tap Nitrate?
If it's the former, with my Tap level at 40ppm I don't see how even a 100 percent change could ever get me to 20ppm as I would always be starting from a level higher than Target.
I must have missed something in your post.

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Is My Water Ok?

Is My Water Ok?

Author Topic: Is my water ok? (Read 18761 times) 57 replies

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