Hello

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Offline Joe Browse

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Hello
« on: September 01, 2014, 05:05:02 PM »
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hello

im not new to fish keeping i have a 300l tank that i bought second hand about 3 years ago but i still class myself as a massive novice. i have been going solely on the advise of my local fish store but unfortunately my fish keep dying :(

i have tested the water many times and the pH, Nitrates and the Ammonia are perfect! i dont know if it is just the quality of the fish or whether the shop is just telling me that the fish i buy can go in with the ones that i already have when actually they cant.

i have joined under recommendation of my partners uncle (also a fellow tropical fish keeper) who said that not only does everyone on here give good advice but also that its nice  to have friendly people who share our much loved passion.

anyway i wont waffle on. my name is joe and i look forward to speaking with you all soon.


Offline Sue

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Re: Hello
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2014, 05:14:18 PM »
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Hi Joe, welcome  :wave:

300 litres is a nice sized tank  ;D

Besides ammonia, nitrate and pH, nitrite needs to be kept an eye on. Also hardness plays its part - you can usually find that somewhere on your water supplier's website.
What fish do you have at the moment, and is it any particular type of fish that have problems?

Offline Joe Browse

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Re: Hello
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2014, 05:22:01 PM »
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Hi Sue

I have neon and cardinal tetras, silver tip tetras, male guppies (i know these are bread for colours and therefore are a very week fish) and 3 algae eaters.

I have had red wag platties, coffee mollies, cherry barbs and Indian gourami's but they all seem to die. the platties went very quickly (within a week) but the others have been fine and then all of them go over a period of a couple of days.

if it is the hardness of the water how do i change that?

Offline ColinB

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Re: Hello
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2014, 05:30:47 PM »
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Hello Joe, and welcome to the forum.

One step at a time.... let's sort out the current water parameters you have before any talk of changing them.

Do you have a water test kit that tests for pH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate? If so, could you tell us the actual readings rather than just 'perfect', please, as actual perfect pH doesn't exist. And as Sue says.... do you know the hardness of your water?

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Panda Cory (7) - Honey Gourami (3) - Ember Tetra (9) - Lemon Tetra (4) - Cherry Barb (1) - Otocinclus (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Joe Browse

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Re: Hello
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2014, 06:08:28 PM »
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unfortunately i dont have a kit but i have ordered one and it will be with me by the weekend. im currently away with work and dont get home until saturday but will be able to get the test underway and come straight back to you with the results.

as for the water i am trying to find it on my water providers website as we speak.

i would like to say thank you to you and sue already as i didnt really believe my partners uncle when he said that everyone on here was so helpful and friendly and you to have proven him right!

thanks
joe

Offline Sue

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Re: Hello
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2014, 07:01:49 PM »
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The main things to test for are ammonia and nitrite since a level of either of these above zero is dangerous for the fish.
Nitrate is only dangerous at levels in excess of 100, but it is good practice to stop the level exceeding the amount in your tap water plus 20, just before a water change. The lowest you can get nitrate by water changes alone is the same as your tap water, and it will go up between one water change and the next. It can be lower if you have a lot of live plants (think jungle) or use RO water or one of the expensive ways of pre-treating the water to remove it.
pH by and large doesn't matter as long as it is stable and not at one extreme or the other. Fluctuating pH levels can harm the fish.
Hardness - there is only one real way to lower this and that's to use RO water (reverse osmosis, water that has had all the minerals removed) either by mixing it with hard tapwater or by using just RO with some minerals added back. Raising it is easier, you just add more minerals.
Hardness is actually more important than pH. Provided hardness is at the right end of the scale for a species, pH can be quite a bit off the 'desired' range. So looking at your fish list - neons and cardinals prefer soft acid water; guppies, mollies and platies prefer hard alkaline water; and silver tips, cherry barbs, and Indian gouramis (aka banded gouramis, Trichogaster fasciata) can tolerate both.

The problem with a lot of shops is that what they mean by good isn't necessarily what we mean by good  ;)

Once we know what your readings and hardness are, we'll be able see better if there is anything wrong.



Is your partner's uncle a member on here?

Offline Joe Browse

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Re: Hello
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2014, 10:32:45 PM »
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thanks sue

yes he is he joined a couple of months ago and has raved about you guys since! i am not sure what his user name is but he is always talking to you guys on here.

straight away i can see why he is raving! the explanation you just gave me made a lot more sense than what i have been told in the past.

i have had a look on southwest waters website and it says that my tap water is soft so this explains why my mollies and guppies etc are probably not living very long. will it become an issue for my cardinals and neons if i harden the water?

Offline chris213

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Re: Hello
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2014, 07:36:52 AM »
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hi joe

not much more i can add to the advice at the moment just a nice big freidly hi  :wave:

Offline ColinB

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Re: Hello
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2014, 08:04:45 AM »
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i have had a look on southwest waters website and it says that my tap water is soft so this explains why my mollies and guppies etc are probably not living very long. will it become an issue for my cardinals and neons if i harden the water?

Can you give us a number in relation to your hardness? i.e. In my Thames Water region they give it as...

mgl CaCO3 (ppm) 296.0

Us fishkeepers tend to divide that ppm number by 17.9 to turn it into degrees hardness...

...so my water is 16.5º

I keep one tank with guppies and a platy in this tap water, and my main tank I mix 50/50 with either rain water or RO water to bring the hardness down to 8º for my barbs and tetras.

Just 'soft' is too vague, really. (Especially for us scientists - we like numbers! :) )

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Panda Cory (7) - Honey Gourami (3) - Ember Tetra (9) - Lemon Tetra (4) - Cherry Barb (1) - Otocinclus (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Joe Browse

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Re: Hello
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2014, 07:57:43 PM »
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hi joe

not much more i can add to the advice at the moment just a nice big freidly hi  :wave:

Hi Chris213

i have had a look on southwest waters website and it says that my tap water is soft so this explains why my mollies and guppies etc are probably not living very long. will it become an issue for my cardinals and neons if i harden the water?

Can you give us a number in relation to your hardness? i.e. In my Thames Water region they give it as...

mgl CaCO3 (ppm) 296.0

Us fishkeepers tend to divide that ppm number by 17.9 to turn it into degrees hardness...

...so my water is 16.5º

I keep one tank with guppies and a platy in this tap water, and my main tank I mix 50/50 with either rain water or RO water to bring the hardness down to 8º for my barbs and tetras.

Just 'soft' is too vague, really. (Especially for us scientists - we like numbers! :) )

I didn't know I had to be so accurate :) I have had a look on southwest waters website and I need to call the to get exact figures. All it gives me on the website is whether it is hard or soft.

I'm glad that you guys are a fountain of knowledge as I've always wanted to give breeding a go but with my lack of knowledge and experience I never tried but once I've got my tank running smoothly I think with a bit of guidance I could give it a bash

Offline Joe Browse

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Re: Hello
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2014, 08:45:56 PM »
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Just another quick one. Is there a classifieds section as I'm always scanning round for new tanks/fish/ornaments etc

Offline Sue

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Re: Hello
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2014, 08:51:52 PM »
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No, there isn't I'm afraid. There used to be on the old forum a couple of years ago but it disappeared when the site moved hosts.

You could always try aquarist classifieds or sites like freecycle and gumtree. Or even ebay.

Offline Joe Browse

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Re: Hello
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2014, 08:57:13 PM »
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It's ok I'm always keeping an eye out on eBay and gumtree just thought I'd ask. I quite like the circular biorb tanks with the flat facias. My office just needs a small injection of life

Offline ColinB

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Re: Hello
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2014, 07:59:40 AM »
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BioOrbs have a bit of a bad rep amongst fishkeepers - they certainly look good, but they're difficult to stock and keep. It's like Fluval Edge tanks - look great, but very restricting!

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Panda Cory (7) - Honey Gourami (3) - Ember Tetra (9) - Lemon Tetra (4) - Cherry Barb (1) - Otocinclus (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Joe Browse

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Re: Hello
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2014, 05:08:04 PM »
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BioOrbs have a bit of a bad rep amongst fishkeepers - they certainly look good, but they're difficult to stock and keep. It's like Fluval Edge tanks - look great, but very restricting!

Oh do they?? I've not heard this. Maybe I will give it a miss then and try to get a bigger tank for the office

Offline Sue

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Re: Hello
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2014, 07:01:29 PM »
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It's not so much the size as the small opening on all the shapes and the filter does leave a bit to be desired. They have undergravel filters with the rocks on the bottom being the biological media. This restricts the plants and bottom dwelling fish you can have - plants because you can't root them in the substrate and bottom dwellers because the rocks are too rough.
There are plenty small, cube shaped aquaria the same volume but a much better shape and better filters.

Offline Joe Browse

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Re: Hello
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2014, 07:28:46 PM »
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Ah ok I just wanted a 20-30 litre tank as my office is only small. What would you say is a decent small tank?

Offline Puffin

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Re: Hello
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2014, 07:33:04 PM »
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Which biorb do you mean? The cylindrical one?

Offline Joe Browse

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Re: Hello
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2014, 08:42:24 PM »
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Yeah I think so I have attached an image I just found online

Offline Sue

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Re: Hello
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2014, 09:06:30 PM »
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That pic clearly shows the disadvantages  ;D Small opening at the top, small area at the bottom, the chunky rocks that you can't change because they are the filter media etc etc

A few people on here have aqua nano tanks by aqua one. Because they are cubes they do fit into a small space. They do have a smaller footprint than a rectangular tank of the same volume but a lot more than all the biorb shapes. The smallest aqua nano at 22 litres is a bit small to do much with but the next one up, with a footprint of 40 x 40cm, is a much better sized 50 litre tank (though it probably isn't 50 litres; I have an aqua one aqua space tank and that includes the glass and frame in its volume  :( )



And be very careful of taking too much notice of the on-line photos of tanks. Manufacturers have a nasty habit of 'shrinking' fish to make the tank look bigger. The guppies in your pic have definitely been shrunk.

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