White Cloud Mountain Minnow (WCMM) "resting" On Bottom Of Tank

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Online Littlefish

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Hi Guys,
Got home from work to find everyone fine, except for one white cloud mountain minnow on the bottom of the tank. He has moved twice, if something else comes near him, and swimms away, but only to then "rest" on the bottom of the tank again. He didn't eat anything at feeding time. He isn't on his side, but something is not right.
Any ideas?

Online Littlefish

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Re: WCMM "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2016, 06:42:22 PM »
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I've moved him to another tank, taken a spare filter from the puffers for him, and added an air stone.
I had some Interpet General Tonic so I added some of that to the tank as well.
He occassionally moves a little, but that's it.

Online Littlefish

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Re: WCMM "resting" on bottom of tank - urgent
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2016, 06:44:55 PM »
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A quick water test shows ph around 7.4, ammonia 0, nitrite 0 and nitrates <40, on both tanks, same as usual.

Offline fcmf

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Re: WCMM "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2016, 06:48:35 PM »
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Sorry to read of this, @Littlefish. I've had goldfish suffer from this type of behaviour in the past and I think that at least one of my pygmy cories may have suffered from this last summer. What I tended to do was to have several "lines of treatment" as follows:
* increase amount of veg (eg peas) and live/frozen food in the diet, to clear out any blockages that might be pressing on the swimbladder [and thus eliminate that/constipation as a possible factor]
* aquarium salt treatment, if that didn't work after a couple of days [NB. many species don't tolerate salt, so worth checking up about WCMMs]
* dose with a treatment such as eSHa 2000, Waterlife Myxazin, Interpet No.9 or something which treats bacterial infections, if the previous suggestions hadn't worked OR if the fish shows additional symptoms [it might even be worth moving to this stage within the next 24hrs, if you can isolate him and simultaneously feed with something veg-based to clear out any potential blockages]

Hope this helps. Keep us posted. Best of luck for a speedy recovery for him!


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Online Littlefish

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Re: WCMM "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2016, 06:52:26 PM »
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Thanks @fcmf
He's not eating at the moment, he's barely moving.
He is managing to stay upright, a few times he has rolled onto his side, but managed to right himself.
He's isolated - yesterday I was setting up the 125L tank for the tiger barbs, but hadn't moved them as I hadn't done the planting, but it was the only spare tank I had.

Online Littlefish

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Re: WCMM "resting" On Bottom Of Tank
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2016, 06:54:22 PM »
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Ok, I admit to panic.
He's had Interpet general tonic, which I had in the cupboard.
I'll head to MA first thing tomorrow for other treatments.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Urgent - see my WCMM post - I'm desperate
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2016, 07:06:48 PM »
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That's a natural reaction. I get completely overcome with panic/nerves when something happens to my fish too and I can't think straight.

I've had a look at Interpet's Guide to Fish Health which I have a copy of - great wee booklet. It mentions what products No.5 Liquisil General Tonic can be used simultaneously with but does NOT mention being able to be used in conjunction with other treatment products in the range. I've cross-checked against Interpet's No.9 Anti Internal Bacteria treatment and likewise, it looks as though it can't be used in conjunction with the general tonic.  For that reason, I'd recommend a large water change prior to starting a new treatment.

As for going to MA, they tend to stock the Aquarium Munster range - MediMor would be the one to look out for. Your store may stock additional ranges too such as Interpet, Waterlife or eSHa.

Whichever you go for, probably best to do that water change immediately before dosing.

[Also, while you're there, it may be worth picking up a treatment for Whitespot, in the event of an unexpected outbreak some time down the line, and the need to dose immediately. One less thing to panic about / peace of mind if you have it in the house already.]

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Offline fcmf

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Re: WCMM "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2016, 07:12:11 PM »
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OK - in view of the rolling, then I think it's time to isolate and medicate, which I see you've done (I must have been typing while your message came through) - well done. Fingers crossed for some improvement overnight, and perhaps a water change and starting with one of the other treatments in the morning. Does the No.5 General Tonic state what its ingredients are? That way, it will make it easier for us (most likely @Sue who knows her fish medications better than I do) to work out whether it's fine to stick with the tonic or whether it'd be better to move onto a specific medication like the ones I've suggested - I'd imagine moving onto one of these but we'll know for sure once we know exactly what's in the general tonic.

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Online Littlefish

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Re: WCMM "resting" On Bottom Of Tank
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2016, 07:30:43 PM »
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So rarely use P@H that I forgot about them. Managed to get Interpet No. 9.
Will water change then look at dosing with no. 9.
The little fella is still upright for now.

Offline Sue

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Re: WCMM "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2016, 07:52:55 PM »
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I have combined the two threads and deleted a couple of posts or this thread would read a bit strange.

The Interpet no 5 is better than nothing but the meds fcmf recommends are better.

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Online Littlefish

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Re: WCMM "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2016, 08:15:26 PM »
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I've done a water change and dosed with the Interpet No. 9.
The WCMM has moved to the back of the tank and is still upright on the bottom.
I will try to get the other meds at MA tomorrow, but I guess it's a matter of waiting now.

Apologies for the panic.

Online Littlefish

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Re: WCMM "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2016, 06:34:26 AM »
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Not moving much, just the occassional waggle of tail, but still upright and still alive.
Should I continue with the Interpet no. 9? or should I get something from MA? or should I order the eSHa from the internet and continue with the Interpet until it arrives?

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Re: WCMM "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2016, 07:31:14 AM »
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I would continue with it - it's a two-part treatment from recollection, is that correct?

It wouldn't do any harm to order in the eSHa 2000 - broad-spectrum treatment which also covers other conditions such as finrot as well as bacterial infections. The advantage of eSHa 2000 over MA's MediMor is that you don't have a week's wait between doses - it's 3 successive days, so you can then make a swifter decision about what to do next rather than waiting to see if it works.

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Online Littlefish

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Re: WCMM "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2016, 08:49:52 AM »
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You are correct, it's a 2 dose treatment.
I'll order in the eSHa and keep and eye on the little fella to see what happens.
Not feeling awfully hopeful at the moment though.

Offline ColinB

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Re: WCMM "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2016, 09:52:54 AM »
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I can't offer any different advice... just sympathy.

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Re: WCMM "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2016, 11:36:36 AM »
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Thanks Colin.
The little one is still upright.

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Re: WCMM "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2016, 09:47:18 PM »
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Keeping my fingers tightly crossed for some sign of improvement overnight.

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Re: WCMM "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2016, 08:04:14 AM »
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This morning he is still hanging on.
No sign of improvement though.

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Re: WCMM "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2016, 09:20:10 AM »
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When is the second dose due?  Are you waiting for the arrival of eSHa 2000 and when is it due for arrival?  (Just trying to work out what might be the best course of action next ie whether to swap to it...)

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Re: WCMM "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2016, 10:11:45 AM »
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Next dose is due Sunday.
eSHa is due Monday/Tuesday.

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Re: White cloud mountain minnow (WCMM) "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2016, 11:07:04 AM »
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In that case, I would administer the second dose. When the eSHa 2000 arrives, probably best to do a large water change at that stage, then dose the eSHa 2000.

Still keeping fingers tightly crossed.

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Online Littlefish

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Re: White cloud mountain minnow (WCMM) "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2016, 11:50:46 AM »
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Thanks, I will dose tomorrow, keep an eye on the little fella, then big water change before dosing with the new stuff. I'm hoping that he hangs on for long enough for the medication to work.

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Re: White cloud mountain minnow (WCMM) "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2016, 05:38:11 PM »
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Unfortunately he didn't make it.

I have emptied as much of the water from the 180L tank as I can. I have removed the log, airstone and filter. The planting substrate & gravel are still in the tank. Is there anything else that I need to do with the tank to ensure that the tiger barbs don't pick up anything nasty when they move into the tank?

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Re: White cloud mountain minnow (WCMM) "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2016, 10:39:40 PM »
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Aw - very sorry to read about this. :'(  Hope it's of some consolation that you did everything you could possibly have done and gave him every chance for a 'turnaround' (which can often happen but sadly didn't in this case).

From what you've described, it sounds something along the lines of what my pygmy cories died of and I don't think that there's anything nasty/infectious going on, otherwise the other WCMMs/tankmates would be displaying signs of this by now. If you've siphoned the substrate in much the same way as you do in a normal water change, I'd say that should suffice. The log, airstone and filter could perhaps be soaked in over-dechlorinated water as an extra precaution, although I don't think it's necessary.

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Offline Sue

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Re: White cloud mountain minnow (WCMM) "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2016, 08:46:46 AM »
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I'm sorry to hear that Donna; you did everything you could for the fish. I sometimes wonder if fish intensively bred on farms suffer more from internal deformations than wild fish.

I agree with fcmf about the tank. With no obvious symptoms, and no other affected fish, the tank should be OK. If it was some nasty infection, its previous tankmates would be showing the same symptoms by now. The fact that they aren't suggests something about this one fish itself.

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Offline Fiona

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Re: White cloud mountain minnow (WCMM) "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2016, 02:52:09 PM »
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Sorry the little guy didnt make it Donna, sometimes besides our best efforts we lose fish and it's always saddening :(

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Offline ColinB

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Re: White cloud mountain minnow (WCMM) "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2016, 03:16:06 PM »
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Indeed - you did what you could for the little chap.

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Re: White cloud mountain minnow (WCMM) "resting" on bottom of tank
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2016, 10:11:02 PM »
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Thanks all.

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