URGENT Very Sick Siamese Fighting Fish

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Offline gerd1986

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URGENT Very sick Siamese fighting fish
« on: July 04, 2016, 07:56:35 PM »
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So I have just started up my tank after a long cycle period. But for 2 weeks now everything has been fine.

Levels:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20

Over the last week the fighting fish has gone from fighting fit to becoming really ill, his gills are inflamed and his colour is going at the bottom of both sides.  He went through a spell of rubbing against things and staying at the bottom but is back swimming around everywhere.

He had a few scraps with my Swordtails when he first got in but that settled down quickly.

My Swordtails had whitespot about the same time this started happening which has now completely cleared up now but the betta is still sick

Medication:

eSHa EXIT
eSHa 2000

50% waterchange done also.

What else could I do?

Offline gerd1986

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Re: URGENT Very sick Siamese fighting fish
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2016, 08:01:07 PM »
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And to add the fish shop told me to put salt in the tank to help cure the whitespot 1g per litre.

Offline Sue

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Re: URGENT Very sick Siamese fighting fish
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2016, 08:21:09 PM »
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Are there any spots on any of the fish at the moment? If they are all clear, how long has it been since you saw the last spot?

Turning the temp up to 29 deg C and adding salt is one way to cure whitespot. But the salt needs to be added at the dose rate of 2g per litre rather than 1g per litre, and leaving it at this strength for 2 weeks.
Heat alone at 32 deg C for 2 weeks can also kill whitespot but not all fish can tolerate this high.

The combination of Exit and 2000 should have killed the whitespot but it is possible that the betta has it in his gills as that's the first point of attack. And rubbing on things is a classic symptom of whitespot.

[I have done a lot of reading about whitespot after losing half my fish to the 'import spot' variant (very nasty) and 2 months of continual medication]

What temperature is the tank? Bettas like it warmer than most fish at around 27 to 28 deg C. If your temp is less than that, it could be affecting the betta.
He might also have had problems with the meds. They are absorbed by the fish and it isn't terribly good for them. Using meds is just the lesser of two evils when to comes to treating disease or infection.


I would also think seriously about keeping a betta in the same tank as a swordtail as both are territorial fish. You may well find the betta improves if you move him to another tank. Clean water and a temp of 27 - 28 deg will help him recover if it is med intolerance, and getting him away from the swordtail will also help. Bettas are not good community fish.

Offline gerd1986

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Re: URGENT Very sick Siamese fighting fish
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2016, 08:32:48 PM »
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2 days since the spots went.

I have changed the temp to 27 now it was at 25.

Damn fish shop said he would be fine in with the swordtails.

So basically I need to just wait and see then,  I have nothing to move the betta too but I will try and pick up a small tank to put him in.

Offline Sue

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Re: URGENT Very sick Siamese fighting fish
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2016, 08:44:36 PM »
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Never, ever believe anything a shop says till you've researched it for yourself.


If you could squeeze in a small, about 20 to 25 litre, tank that would be perfect for a betta. He would need a small filter that has a gentle flow. Until mine started sleeping on top of it and knocking it off the glass, I used this filter. It's a Maidenhead Aquatics own brand if you have a branch near you. It has sponge media with carbon in a hollow inside the sponge, but if you replace that with some media from the tank you have now that would save having to cycle it - or empty the carbon out and put some mature media into the hollow in its place. This filter is fine for bettas as it has a variable flow with the spray bar attachment.



Keep an eye on all the fish to make sure the whitespot really has gone, and re-treat if it hasn't. Exit says to repeat the course and add an extra 2 or 3 doses at the lower dose rate if it proves stubborn. Or try a different med such as Waterlife's Protozin or King British WS3/Whitespot Control (WS3 is more concentrated for bigger tanks).

Offline Littlefish

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Re: URGENT Very sick Siamese fighting fish
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2016, 08:58:12 PM »
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Gerd, sorry to hear that your betta is unwell. Wishing him the best of luck for a full recovery. Please keep us posted on his progress.

Sue, I have the same filter for my betta, and have noticed that he has started to sleep on top of it over the past few weeks.  ;D

Offline gerd1986

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Re: URGENT Very sick Siamese fighting fish
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2016, 08:21:25 AM »
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Another quick question,  does his head look white?  I thought this was fungus hence I treated for that also or is this just me?

Offline Littlefish

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Re: URGENT Very sick Siamese fighting fish
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2016, 08:30:53 AM »
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His head does look a slightly paler colour in the pictures. Is this a recent thing?
I'm not sure if it would be fungus, and I suggest that it would be better to wait for @Sue or one of the other experienced keepers to comment on it.
Sorry I can't be of more help.

Offline Sue

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Re: URGENT Very sick Siamese fighting fish
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2016, 08:55:33 AM »
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In your photos I can see a lighter patch behind and slightly above his eye - to me that looked like the top of his gill cover catching the light. But you can see the fish from all angles, does it look more like a white patch of skin?


If it is fungus (which can be a bacterial infection rather than an actual fungus) the cause could simply be the stress of where he is and the whitespot and the meds you had to use.

Offline Fiona

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Re: URGENT Very sick Siamese fighting fish
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2016, 08:59:28 AM »
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My betta got so stressed continually flaring at a zebra nerite I put in with him that I had to take it out!

Offline Sue

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Re: URGENT Very sick Siamese fighting fish
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2016, 09:08:24 AM »
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Looking again, do you mean his paler throat? Some bettas are just coloured like that. If the skin looks normal but whitish, it is probably his colouring. But if it looks like something on top of his skin, it could be some infection. Though as you have used eSHa 2000, I would have thought that should have got rid of anything.

Offline gerd1986

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Re: URGENT Very sick Siamese fighting fish
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2016, 10:00:06 PM »
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So literally over the last 4 hours my betta has gone gold.

I'm assuming now that he has always had velvet. Although I thought the eSHa exit would have treated this already.

I'm going to keep going with the treatment until this clears up unless anyone else has any ideas?

Offline gerd1986

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Re: URGENT Very sick Siamese fighting fish
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2016, 06:57:33 AM »
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And.....  This morning it's pretty much gone.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: URGENT Very sick Siamese fighting fish
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2016, 08:20:44 AM »
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Great to see your betta looking much better.
I don't know enough about betta to give you any help or explanation of what is going on here, sorry.
One of the others will be along to help and I hope that they will be able to explain what has happened. I have to admit that I am very interested to hear the explanation for what is happening with your betta as I don't think I've seen colour change like that before. Could it have been a stress reaction to something?
The only thing I can say - there is something new to learn every day.

Offline Sue

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Re: URGENT Very sick Siamese fighting fish
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2016, 09:42:58 AM »
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I've never had velvet in 21 years of keeping fish so I don't know what to expect from that. All I know is that the fish takes on a gold sheen, most easily seen by shining a torch on the fish in a dark room. And yes, Exit should have sorted that out.

Bettas can change colour. They often have a different colour underlying the top colour. It is common to see dark blue bettas with red leaking through on their fins. My last betta was bought as a blue and white marble but within a couple of months he was plain blue.

Keep an eye on all the fish in the tank just in case it was velvet. If it's the same as whitespot, it is possible that a bug could have escaped being killed and could start a new infection.

And give some thought to a small (20 to 25 litres) tank for just the betta.

Offline Fiona

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Re: URGENT Very sick Siamese fighting fish
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2016, 08:53:39 AM »
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My threadfins got velvet once and it's quite astonishing to see. I cleared it up with eSHa as I recall.

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