Author Topic: newly bought (10) selection African Cichlids - one appears 'not normal' (Read 40918 times) 42 replies

Sue · « **Reply #20 on:** July 05, 2019, 11:04:24 AM »

The ammonia tester is well known for looking greener than it should. Even some long time fishkeepers never see the yellow of zero.
The light of the room can affect the colour. The best light is bright daylight but not in direct sunlight. The next best is old fashioned incandescent light bulbs if you still have any. Fluorescent lights, which include compact fluorescent 'energy saving' bulbs are the worst - they give the liquid in the tube a green tinge. In my limited experience, halogen bulbs don't have much effect. LEDs are new and come in different colours from yellow 'soft white' to glaring super white.

If you have any bottled water, you could try testing that for ammonia late evening when it's dark outside and the lights are on, then looking at the colour in every room in the house. The room where it looks yellowest is the best light for testing ammonia in artificial light.
The reason I suggest using bottled water is that there can be ammonia in tap water, particularly if the water company use chloramine instead of chlorine.

Littlefish · « **Reply #21 on:** July 05, 2019, 11:13:52 AM »

That bit about bottled water is useful to know, thanks Sue.

Sue · « **Reply #22 on:** July 05, 2019, 11:19:54 AM »

Actually, I should have added - read the label on the bottle first to check it does not contain ammonia.

Distilled or reverse osmosis water is better but not many of us have that ready to hand (especially those of us with soft water and low nitrate

)

Stripyjoe · « **Reply #23 on:** July 05, 2019, 08:24:08 PM »

Thks agin Sue and Donna - more good info.. but haven't had an entirely 'good' day I'm afraid - good news first - the cichlid tank looks fine and they all lookin' fine with good colours - 'stripeyJoe' seems happy, doing her own thing, grabbing the gravel/pebble substrate and 'rearranging' the layout - she cudn' do that much before with ole Red Parrot chasin' ..

So, bad news, found this morning, in the old 90L , now home since last Saturday for my 30-ish gifted community fish - one of two Denison Barb dead on bottom of tank.. instant panic! So, chkd it straight away and sue enough, Ammonia and Nitrite higher than Cichi tank at 0.5 ppm.. I was so wrapped wi' gettin' the new tank up and running that I neglected the 90L.. so, gave it immediate 50% water change and dosed it to remove ammonia. I'm not convinced it was ammonia poisoning, but on checking - found how possibly 'fragile' the species is.. and the other will now prolly get real timid and lonely.
So, next planned job, to suction clean the Cichi pebbles before 'stripeyJoe' buries all the poo in conjunction wi' 20% or so water change, then consider ammonia fix if level not reduced.. oops! make that 15% change, if I go any further the FX6 will stop..do you advise dosin' the tank right away for ammonia? - then top up wi' clean ( de-chloro ) rather than delay anymore ?

thks in advance...

Littlefish · « **Reply #24 on:** July 05, 2019, 08:40:37 PM »

Sorry to hear about your barb.
I haven't kept those fish, but a quick look at some resources indicates that they need a larger tank, with good water flow and high levels of oxygen. It may be worth considering asking your local fish shop if they would take the remaining one. You may also need to have a look at the fish in the 90L tank, and see if any others may be better off in a bigger tank, or being taken to a fish shop.
I know it's not a nice feeling to get rid of fish, but when you buy a tank that already has inhabitants, or someone gifts you some fish that are unsuitable, it's worth considering the wellbeing of the fish and deciding if it would be better to return it to a shop. Something to think about.

Great news about Stripey Joe, it sounds as if she's getting things just how she likes them.

Sue · « **Reply #25 on:** July 05, 2019, 08:42:05 PM »

When you say the FX6 will stop if you go any further, do you mean the water level will drop below the intake tube? If that is what you mean, turn the filter off. That's what those of us with internal filters do during a water change.

The Denison's barbs (aka red line torpedo barbs) were probably quite stressed. They have been transported from the home of the tank's original owner to your house; they are now in a tank that is - to them- very small; they are in less than perfect water. All these factors add together and can take their toll on more sensitive species.

You can use Seachem Prime as a water conditioner. It 'detoxifies' both ammonia and nitrite though they will still show up in the tests. BUT..... the detoxification effect wears off in about 24 hours and they become toxic again. The way to keep the fish safe is to do a daily water change using Prime for the new water until levels of both ammonia and nitrite stay at zero without water changes.

When you ask about dosing the water for ammonia, do you mean something else?

If you are keeping Rift Lake cichlids, the tank water should be both very hard with a pH much higher than 7. Ammonia is a lot more toxic at high pH.
Ammonia exists in 2 forms - toxic ammonia and less toxic ammonium. The amount of each form in any water depends on temperature and pH. The higher the pH, the more that is in the toxic ammonia form. This is why it is particularly important for you to keep on top of the ammonia level.

Stripyjoe · « **Reply #26 on:** July 05, 2019, 10:12:31 PM »

OK thks - I agree, that given the choice, I wud not have 'chosen' the Denison (Torrpedo) Barbs.. I thought to transfer them back to the bigger tank with the FX6 for the current flow, but they appeared too docile and prolly get stressed immediately by the cichlids.. return to shop is prolly my best option.. tho' the survivor right now appears OK and quite active.. the dead one had lost a lot of the black stripe colour over coupla cms about half-way along the body, on one side only - could this be indication of internal or external injury / cause of death?.. uuum.. my quick visit to local PetsatHome - they only had 'I love fish' ammonia remover - so it was take it or leave it time.. supposedly 'removes' ammonia, rather than turning it to ammonium for the filter to reduce.. but I figured mebbe better the 'quick fix' in conjunction with water changes, rather than risk the situation getting worse..
On the compatibility issue, from wot I've read - perhaps the two Clown loach, about same size as the cichlids, together with the two large Angels, circa 6cm long, 9cm high ( or more) cud go in the big tank, and greatly reduce any poo/ammonia issue in the smaller tank - summat to think about next week?..

Sue · « **Reply #27 on:** July 06, 2019, 10:52:47 AM »

You do have some problems looming with your fish.

Clown loaches get HUGE and need very big tanks with a footprint of at least 180 x 60 cm. Goggle 'marge clown loach' and you'll see what I mean. They also need to be kept in a group of at least 6 as they are very social fish. https://www.loaches.com/species-index/clown-loach-chromobotia-macracanthus
They should also not be kept with Malawi cichlids https://www.loaches.com/articles/why-loaches-should-not-be-kept-with-malawi-cichlids
The best thing to do is rehome the loaches.

Angelfish and Rift lake cichlids should not be kept together. Angelfish are from south America, and American and African cichlids should not be kept together. They have evolved on different continents and cannot understand each other's signals, both physical and chemical. They are also all territorial fish, and if they don't understand each other they will come to blows.
They are also incompatible water-wise. Angelfish need soft water while Rift Lake cichlids need very hard water.
Two angelfish also have the potential for problems. Two females should be OK. Two males will fight over territory. A male and female might get on or might not - cichlids have to choose their own mates. If they do get on and spawn, the rest of the fish will be attacked if they go near the eggs. if they don't get on, one will end up dead.

Ammonia removers and ammonia detoxifiers are a sticking plaster solution. It is much better to solve the cause. In this case, that means growing more bacteria. Rather than use one of those, you would be better buying a bottled bacteria. The best one in shops is Tetra Safe Start as this one is known to contain the right species of nitrite eating bacteria. A lot of other brands contain the wrong species.

Stripyjoe · « **Reply #28 on:** July 06, 2019, 07:08:15 PM »

T/U Sue - just showing my ignorance I guess - I believe I mostly concerned myself with the 'size' of the full-grown Clowns and Angels, wi'out appreciating the water hardness differences, and other parameters which you pointed out. Very unlikely that we will invest in a bigger set-up than the 360L, so looks like more re-housing via fish / pet shop is on the horizon. I'm beginning to believe my 'seller' did not do his homework when stocking his tank, perhaps went for 'Community colour', tho' to be fair, they would have been 'comfortable' for longer in the 360L tank, and now I've exacerbated the problem by re-housing them in my smaller tank. Perhaps I'll try to find more 'local' enthusiasts who may 'specialise' in the species I no longer want..
On the 'de-tox' question, I'm not sure if my local PetsatHome' stocks the Safe Start, or I cuda missed it.. their 'love fish' ammonia remover appeared to me to be the only almost appropriate treatment. I hoovered the substrate earlier today, with further 30% water change, so plan to check ammonia, etc later tonight. My local fish supplier stock most Tetra products so will chk on Monday for the Safe Start..

Stripyjoe · « **Reply #29 on:** July 09, 2019, 01:43:19 AM »

Hey Sue and Littlefish - and all you lovely followers - good news I think ( thas why I'm roundin' off the day wi' my Fosters), ..lol So, latest tests reveal ammonia down to 'near zero' in both tanks.. ( I used to be a 'navigator' so was regularly tested for eyesight and colour recognition ) - I wud say the colour closer to the zero than the 0.25.. and wi' regular 'sweeps' and water change, with occasional 'chemical boost' if necessary, I'm hoping I can stay on top of it.. both tanks 'look' squeaky clean, even at night wi' tank lights off, and not bright living room lights, the background wallpapers just jump out at you.. and, of course, all the fish 'look' healthy and 'normal' .
So, to round it off, with existing 'gifted' fish in the 90L tank - I have the space to increase their 'home' to perhaps a 250L at 100 x 50 x 50 if such a footprint is available - wud have to be 2nd-hand on gumtree or such.. at least to give the clown loach and large angels more room.. and keep the smaller species in the 90L..this mainly to 'keep our word' to our seller and try to keep his fish.. and, though another extra expense up front, it will substantially ease my filtration probs in the 90L..
K.. can you 'guys' tell me this cud be a temporary fix?

thks agin ...

Littlefish · « **Reply #30 on:** July 10, 2019, 07:26:47 AM »

I sounds as if your hard work is paying off. You thoroughly deserved the Fosters

Keep up the good work with the water changes, regular testing, etc. and it's great to hear that your fish are all looking health.

It's also great to hear that you are looking to get another/larger tank for some of the fish currently in the 90L. I've not been in the position where I've had to sell of a tank & fish, though I should imagine that it is quite an emotional decision. I admire the fact that you gave your word to the seller to try and keep his fish, and are prepared to get another tank to do so. Yes, it will give the larger fish some more space, and ease the pressure on the filtration in the 90L. I'm sure that the original seller would be over the moon to know that you are so committed to taking care of his fish.

Stripyjoe · « **Reply #31 on:** July 11, 2019, 05:46:49 PM »

Hey, thks Donna - had to chk there 'wot I'd posted & when ?' .. lol so, another strata sweep and 30-ish % water change yes'day in the big cichi tank. thought it a good time to chk out the 'guts' of the FX6.. quite impressed - the manual looks good - but can't compare wi' feeling the weight of it, full of water and the three baskets full of rocks and rings - I rinsed out the sponge filters, but thought not to wash the bio for risk of reducing the bacteria.. in hindsight I shuda emptied the water and cleaned out the filter drum. so, all back together, water topped up - and earlier today chkd chemos: ammonia 'near zero, nitrite defo zero, nitrate 20ppm ( down from 40ppm a few days back ).. hope the 90L tank will gimme sim'lar results tomorrow..
- related subject (in the same cichlid tank ) - about a week back, as we were about to 'lose' our Strawberry Peacock, I bought the 'replacement' Strawberry, and a second Livingstones - just the two - but since then that strawberry appears to have suffered some bullying

- 'she's' only now venturing out from her hiding place behind the U3 filter - I've even been trying to sneakily feed her in hiding, while feeding others at other end of the tank - sorta works - so, bottom line, I'd forgotten that - especially as these are 'boisterous' bordering
'aggro' species - adding one or two fish is a no-no - so, plan to add perhaps 3 'yellow Labs' wi' one 'Sulphur Head' if available mebbe at weekend.. and hope the filter can keep up..

Littlefish · « **Reply #32 on:** July 12, 2019, 08:17:12 AM »

Cleaning and water changes will be much appreciated by your fish. I takes a lot of time and effort, but at this point it's necessary. As you tank matures, and the water test results show that everything is fine, it will get easier.

The FX6 filters are beasts, and can handle a lot of waste. When I clean mine I hold the red baskets in a bucket of tank waster and just give them a bit of a shake. For cleaning the larger part, I bought a plastic stack box which is large/deep enough to hold the grey baskets, to give them a gentle shake in tank water (after removing the sponge). When cleaning the filter drum, again just pour our about 2/3 of the water, and swirl the drum around to pick up any bits in the water, then pour out. No need to wipe or scrub anything, so no loss of bacteria. There is also enough space to put extra ceramic media into the baskets, which is easily purchased in packs, so it might be worth doing that too.

Sorry to hear that the replacement strawberry is being bullied. I agree with considering fish numbers when dealing with boisterous/aggressive species, to spread the hassle around. Good luck with the additional fish, and keep us posted.

Stripyjoe · « **Reply #33 on:** July 13, 2019, 01:54:33 AM »

thks - I'll follow your procedure next time I 'clean' the filter.. first time was as much a 'learnin' curve' - how to get the beast outa the cabinet wi'out too much spillage, just to get the lid off.. lol..
So, visited my local fish-guy Rob today ( Friday ) and picked up 3 'Yellow Labs' - they are one of the 'iffy' Mbuna cichlids, ( possibly ) more aggressive than the Peacocks, but a slightly smaller species - in the shop they selling at about 5cm compared to the Peacocks and Haps at 7cm.. presumably sim'lar age.. and two of some 'Hap' species that I hadn' seen before - but striking deep red body - wi' dark blue to black head and fins - I forgot to write down the species name.. doh.. and, touch wood - they all seem to have settled in right away - the smaller Yellow Labs are not afraid of the larger Peacocks, but are also not bullied - it's as if the Peacocks know not to mess with them,

lol..
Just to round it off, I added two more calci rocks, and found my water ( with my 'new' hardness test kit ) gone from our native 'soft' to 'moderately hard'.. so that's on the right track, given that it's gonna 'fluctuate' back towards soft wi' my water changes.. I'm gonna call that a 'fix'.. lol

Littlefish · « **Reply #34 on:** July 13, 2019, 08:43:24 AM »

I feel your pain when it comes to getting FX filters out of a cabinet for maintenance.

I spent most of yesterday in a cabinet, poking hoses up the back of the tank, and fitting an FX6 and 2 FX4s. The tank only has just over 400L of water, but needs a lot of flow, so I find the external filters really useful.
Glad to hear that your new fish are settling in. Has this addition helped your strawberry as well? Or is it too early to tell yet?
Good news with the additional rocks and water hardness too.

Littlefish · « **Reply #35 on:** July 13, 2019, 09:25:35 AM »

I forgot to mention the tray!

Trust me on this, it will change your life, or at least that part of it spent performing FX6 maintenance.

Buy a cheap plastic tray to put under your FX6. I purchased several of these recently for the 3 filters I set up yesterday. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kristallon-Foodservice-350X450mm-Serving-Platter/dp/B009A5VS1Q/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=plastic+tray&qid=1563005958&s=gateway&sr=8-5

As FX filters have rubber feet it can be difficult to slide them out of a cabinet, especially with the FX6 as it's so big. Place the filter on the tray and it's much easier to slide the tray forwards and lift the filter out of a cabinet.

It's also great for catching the occasional minor water spill (a very regular even for me), and keeping the bottom of your cabinet dry.

Matt · « **Reply #36 on:** July 13, 2019, 09:20:27 PM »

Good tip @Littlefish

I have my filter in a plastic tote to catch any spills and whilst it slides ok, the high sides make it hard to get the filter out of. This is a much more elegant solution.

Stripyjoe · « **Reply #37 on:** July 14, 2019, 02:38:28 AM »

Hey, thks Matt and Donna,
another sweep and water change here in the cichi tank.. and tomorra ( sunday ) sweep and water change in the 90L.. gotta fit all this in wi'out interferin' wi' UK Gran Prix.. 'cos Lorri a big Hamilton supporter, ..doh..

so, hopefully chemo chk today will tell me I got big Cichi tank under control.. it's difficult to believe it's only 2 weeks since I kicked off this cichlid tank.. but really happy with the way it looks - much of that is down to yous' guys, and the great advice you've given me..

Littlefish · « **Reply #38 on:** July 14, 2019, 07:05:25 AM »

Tank maintenance grinds to a halt here as soon as F1 races are on.

I hope your water tests show good results, and it's great to hear that you're happy with the way it looks. Your hard work is paying off.

Stripyjoe · « **Reply #39 on:** July 16, 2019, 09:42:56 PM »

Happy weekend ppl - Hamilton nailed Silverstone GP.. all good stuff - followed by a quiet Monday - lucky me.. so today my boy Jamie drove me ( in my C-Max ) 40 miles round trip to Newquay to pick up my 'overflow tank' .. it's a Red Sea 250 Max.. we lowered the back seats but didn' fold them up to the back of the front seats.. this gave us about an extra foot of available length.. the height was OK with the aquarium laid on its' back on top of the seats.. then the cabinet had to fit lengthways on its' side ( 3 feet long ) pushed up to the tank.. the boot lid had to be tied down about 6 inches short of full shut, but at least we made it in one trip.. all good stuff, then my eldest grandson Rhys arrived to help Jamie carry the tank in.. bit heavy fer ole granpa, lol.. so - then I found seller Mike had removed all the sponge and bio from the filter - prolly moved it to his 'upgraded' 400L reef set-up.. ( it looked stunning ).. so I cut up 3 whole pces of fine, med, coarse sponge and made to fit( hopefully) the right places in the back filter arrangement - seller had the CD for all tank info / setup, and I forgot to grab it, doh.. then I put a large bag of sorta absorbent bio in..so, with gravel / substrate and water, shud be good to go.. gotta study this 'quickstart' filter stuff agin, 'cos need this tank asap..

now gettin' to the nitty-gritty - 'cos - ammonia is low, but not zero in the 90L.. but nitrate seem to be goin' up - over 40 now.. so thinkin' I need to get some of them bigger fish outa there, in order to give the rest a chance.. any short-cuts anyone can advise me?.. I plan to 'rinse' my gravel - sittin' for 2 weeks now since my 350 tank deal, then kick off the tank with water and monitor the chems.. I've got some 'Absolute Pearls' to treat it later when I get some appropriate readings -.. thks for any advice...

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Newly Bought (10) Selection African Cichlids - One Appears 'not Normal'

Newly Bought (10) Selection African Cichlids - One Appears 'not Normal'

Author Topic: newly bought (10) selection African Cichlids - one appears 'not normal' (Read 40918 times) 42 replies

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