RIP "the Little Guy"

Author Topic: RIP "the little guy"  (Read 15583 times) 70 replies

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Offline Matt

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #40 on: December 25, 2016, 08:21:54 AM »
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I can see now that my diagram was misleading... the bottom section is an open box which feeds water into the bottom of the upper chamber. The water is directed initially towards the back/upwards but then flows back to front. I could easily change the flow direction so it just points up so my idea is to use loose media in the bottom half with sponge on top to stop the loose media overflowing the top with the water.  This is where im unsure... changing the flow direction.... it always seemed like you wouldn't get an even flow of water through the filter but perhaps this is me trying to overcritique it... I currently have loose media then carbon pad then sponge in the direction the filter was designed for... perhaps I should just loose the carbon and sponge and replace with better sponge?

Another dodgy diagram below looking top down on the filter.
Yellow = bio balls
Red = new sponge
Blue =water

Offline Littlefish

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #41 on: December 26, 2016, 09:27:34 AM »
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@Matt I've never replaced anything on those filters, I just rinse everything in old tank water when doing the weekly clean.  :)

Offline Matt

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2017, 09:39:39 PM »
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I lost another gourami last night and if I'd like to describe what I saw and see if it sparks any thoughts for anyone...

The fish was absolutely fine until I saw it literally go absolutely crazy flying round the tank like a mad thing then swim around slowly but uncontrollably, also curving round it's body very heavily... eventually funding a hidy hole to pass away in more peacefully, it was found the next morning in a stiff S shape.  Ive had three fish pass in the same number of months, the two previous to this seemed to pass more slowly not eating for a period first, but it's possible I didn't see the final throws of life with these.

Any ideas?

Offline MarquisMirage

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2017, 11:26:17 PM »
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Poor fishy.  :(  Have you tested the water yet?  What were the results?  Also, do you dose CO2?  Everything points at gas issues to me (either fluctuations in the nitrogen cycle or CO2 dosing).  The hardier fish will survive longer until an organ fails.  Sadly your fish will keep dying until the root cause is found.

Offline fcmf

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2017, 10:35:16 PM »
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Very sorry indeed to read about this - that must have been alarming and traumatic to witness. I'm unable to help re a definitive diagnosis at the moment but it does ring a bell in something I've read before which I will try to dig out - but unsure if it will add anything to what's already been suggested.



Offline Matt

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2017, 10:45:43 PM »
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Water tests were a ok, but you might be onto something with the Co2 side of things as my dosing has been more erratic recently as I dose liquid co2 but this has been done more heavily at the weekends and a LOT less regularly in the week.  Basically my workload at work has doubled... I was thinking some kind of internal parasite but couldn't match up the symptoms to anything... This makes sense now. Horrible feeling that I might have led to their demise, feel better knowing that I may have found the answer though...

Offline Sue

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #46 on: February 14, 2017, 09:27:55 AM »
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Is it just gouramis that are dying?
If it is, the reason is either some disease specific to gouramis or the ones you bought were particularly weak.

I wonder if it does have something to do with your liquid CO2? I know that there are reports of them affecting some shrimps and otos.

Offline MarquisMirage

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #47 on: February 14, 2017, 11:21:28 AM »
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@Sue if I remember rightly Matt unfortunately lost a ram too.  @Matt Have you been using a CO2 drop checker?  They're not too expensive and take the guesswork out of how much CO2 to add to the tank.

Offline Sue

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #48 on: February 14, 2017, 11:36:43 AM »
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Matt says he's using liquid CO2 (eg Seachem Flourish Excel, Easylife EasyCarbo) not a gas from a cylinder/home made generator. Would a drop checker work with those, the active ingredient is glutaraldehyde?

Offline MarquisMirage

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #49 on: February 14, 2017, 02:29:28 PM »
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Drop checkers work off the amount of dissolved CO2 in the water so it won't matter how it got in there.  :) 

I'm using the EasyCarbo myself but I purposefully under dose against what it suggests.  1-2 ml per 50 l per day is recommended depending on the amount of plants you have.  So in my 90 l I should go around 1.8 ml following the guide.  However, I have low CO2 requirement plants and believe the Fluval Aquasky lights have (very) low lighting at the bottom of this deep aquarium so extra CO2 is not needed .   On top of that I'm not adding large amounts of ferts right now either.  So I only dose 1 ml a day.

That being said Matts lights may be brighter, and fert additions may be greater, than mine so he may need to add more.  The drop checker will let him know when he hits that sweet spot of 30 ppm.

Offline Sue

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #50 on: February 14, 2017, 02:54:15 PM »
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Since my last post I've googled Seachem Flourish Excel and EasyCarbo and drop checking and found this here
Quote
If you use one of the bottled sources of liquid carbon then you are unable to measure levels. Dose as recommended on the label.

You can't use a drop checker with Seachem Flourish Excel, Easy Life EasyCarbo etc. This is because they do not make CO2, the plant uses the carbon in glutaraldehyde directly.

Offline MarquisMirage

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2017, 04:50:33 PM »
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Everyday is a learning experience.  James has been at it longer than I have so I stand corrected. :D

Offline Matt

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2017, 05:50:32 PM »
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Not sure what I can add to all of this, you are correct on all accounts, I did loose a ram :( I've been dosing to the recommended with easycarbo.  I was thinking about doing a half dose each water change only... how's that sound?

Offline MarquisMirage

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #53 on: February 14, 2017, 09:10:04 PM »
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EasyCarbo needs to be added daily.  Dropping down to half a dose daily sounds good.  If you miss a daily dose don't add extra to compensate on another day.

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2017, 06:39:53 AM »
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I don't think I can do that with my work schedule so will just stop using it all together....
Can you describe how irregular co2 affects the fish? I can't seem to find anything online.

Offline MarquisMirage

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2017, 04:19:36 PM »
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It's not how it's irregular but the amount of CO2 in the water at the time.  The regularity of dosing is purely for the benefit of the plants.

If you overdose CO2 to a high enough level your fish will get poisoned.  There's not one typical behaviour and from what I've read it's just defined as 'stress' which makes it hard to diagnose.  Some say their fish go to the surface and breathe heavily and others that their fish become lethargic at the bottom.  Your last fish seems to have gone euphoric and then paralyzed.  I've seen a paralyzed glass fish from CO2 poisoning on youtube.  It's front part was clenched and it was going mostly in circles but when he tried to go the other way it looked like an s.  What made me look at gas was the euphoria and then clenched up death that has been described in humans with gas poisoning.

The final click for me was when I remembered reading a forum where Tom Barr mentioned that larger fishes were more likely to suffer from excessive CO2 than smaller ones.  This goes full circle to your first post where your little fish haven't been affected at all.

This is the glass catfish:
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp2PFhgTvdo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp2PFhgTvdo</a>

To Barr quote:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/8-general-planted-tank-discussion/109806-common-signs-co2-toxicity-fish-2.html

Offline Sue

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2017, 04:39:46 PM »
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I would also google glutaraldehyde. You'll find a lot of non-aquarium plant uses for it, and reading what else it does besides provide carbon to plants will give you an idea of why I won't use these products, and what is likely to happen if you accidentally use too much.

Offline Matt

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #57 on: February 15, 2017, 06:40:15 PM »
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I only dosed at the recommended level though... does that change anyone's views?

Offline MarquisMirage

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #58 on: February 15, 2017, 06:54:34 PM »
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No.  When adding the liguid CO2 it could hit a fish before it fully dilutes into the aquarium.  Now I know more about this and glutaraldhyde I'm going to have to work out a better distribution system for my aquarium if I'm going to continue to use it myself.

Offline Sue

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #59 on: February 15, 2017, 07:09:19 PM »
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I confess that the main reason I don't use liquid carbon is because of what it might do to my shrimps......

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