RIP "the Little Guy"

Author Topic: RIP "the little guy"  (Read 15612 times) 70 replies

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Offline MarquisMirage

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2016, 09:54:56 PM »
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Sounds like stress to me.  Can you do water tests and let us know the results?  Usually if it's water problems the neons would be the first to go though.  I would recommend antibiotics for treatment but without finding what's causing the issue it'll fix the symptoms but not the cause.

Offline Matt

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2016, 10:08:49 PM »
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Hmmm my conclusion too... Ill keep up with regular water changes and reduce feeding.

Starting to regret not having a testing kit...  :vcross:  they are just so expensive!

Offline Matt

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2016, 10:56:26 PM »
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As mad as it might sound, I've just done another water change - couldn't sleep for thinking "what if"... though I'm not sure the fish really appreciated me interrupting nap time.

Now should be on 60% ish water change in least 2 days, did a normal water change on Saturday of about 20% ish then too.  So that side of things *should* be OK.  I've removed some decaying plant matter I found lodged behaving the filter and permanently have the air stone switched on now. Also raised the temperature slightly and moved heater into better flow... looks ugly but that doesn't matter right now...

Any other suggestions out there? Do you think increasing temperature is the right move?

I'm glad @marquismirage that you were also of the view that medication wasn't the right call at the moment, to be honest I was too but just feeling guilty about things...  thanks for your swift reply

Offline fcmf

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2016, 11:02:44 PM »
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Sorry to read about this. I think anything is possible but whether it's related to the sparkling gourami is difficult to tell.

I would also definitely recommend regular water changes - even just 10-15%, "non-invasive" water changes (just scooped out from the top of the tank in a jug rather than using a syphon and disturbing decor and thereby potentially stressing the fish) can be beneficial and sometimes make a huge difference.
 
PS. Sorry - just realised our messages overlapped. Trying to type this from phone while lying in bed - takes ages!

Offline Matt

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2016, 11:15:52 PM »
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Thanks @fcmf .  Again my views are same as yours -ill continue to do 10-15% "non-invasive" water changes...

Offline Littlefish

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2016, 06:58:41 AM »
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How are things this morning?
I agree with the water changes, they are very important. I also tend to run air stones in these circumstances. I don't know if it does any good, but I figure that it can't do any harm.
Keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Offline Matt

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2016, 07:15:00 AM »
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I think it is stress... I found her lying on some wood near the filter outlet breathing heavily.  Ill do another water change tonight... a big one...

If I take water to MA will they test it reliably for me?

(The temperature seemed low in there this morning so I've ramped up the heater.)

 :vcross:

Offline Littlefish

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2016, 07:28:54 AM »
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MA will test the water, no problem. They are usually more than happy to do this and offer advice.

I know it's easier said than done, but try not to beat yourself up over this. It is difficult when you see your littles ones unwell and can't do anything to immediately fix the problem - I went through it when I had a spate of tiger barbs dying off one every day regardless of my best efforts with water changes, etc. I didn't get to the bottom of the problem, so have no idea what it was. Spoke to the manager at MA and he suggested some medication they give to all new arrivals during quarantine (for internal bacteria), and the problem resolved itself eventually. However, looking at which fish fell ill and which didn't, it was very possible (not easy to tell with standard and green tiger barbs) that the fish that fell ill were the ones I'd had previously, and the ones that survived were the newer ones. No actual proof, just something I thought when looking at the numbers/mix of fish.

Be careful that you don't stress the fish with a very large water change. Again I say this because I know that my water changes pH over 48 hours after coming out of the tap, so I have to be careful with large changes.

Offline fcmf

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2016, 08:31:52 AM »
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If you get your water tested at MA, watch to see if they use the paper-based test strips (like mine does) or liquid-based tests. The former doesn't test for ammonia. Ask specifically if they can test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrates, and ask for the actual results plus the name of the test kit. That way, we can interpret the results for you more if need be. :)

The results will only be valid at the date and time they're done, though, so I do hope Santa brings you a test kit on his visit tomorrow night.  :D

Offline Sue

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2016, 09:01:44 AM »
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Having the temp a bit higher is not a bad thing with rams as they do prefer their water on the warm side.

Fingers crossed for your ram.

Offline MarquisMirage

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2016, 04:38:48 PM »
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I also tend to run air stones in these circumstances.

Although not a necessity in a quarantine/hospital tank many people will use one as extra oxygen in the water can help if the cause of the illness was low oxygen amounts in the water column.  In a planted tank it'll reduce CO2 in the water column so be aware that an air stone will not be good for them.  But fish first is my opinion.

GBR's are so sensitive to water conditions.  Given that you removed some decaying plant matter I'm willing to bet that it caused an ammonia spike.  Hopefully we're getting closer to the root cause.  :)

Offline Matt

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2016, 07:50:24 PM »
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She didn't make it  :'(

I've since changed half the filter sponge (there's a load of bio balls in there too) and it looks to have made quite a difference to the filter flow pattern (open filter) so I'm wondering if this might have been a factor.. at the same time this water quality/stress theory makes absolutely no sense at all because all the other fish seem to be absolutely unaffected.

I'm going to try and take Littlefish's advice and try not to beat myself up about it over Christmas.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2016, 08:35:06 PM »
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Sorry to hear the sad news @Matt. You tried so hard to keep her going.
Unfortunately things don't seem to make sense when one fish is so ill and the others seem fine, and I'm afraid I can't offer any explanation.
Sometimes I think it would be easier to just keep fish and admire them, but it's impossible not to get attached to them. We are not industrial fish breeders, they are our pets, and feel a bond with them, and responsible for them...and that makes it difficult when one is seriously ill and doesn't make it.
My thoughts are with you and your gang.

Offline fcmf

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2016, 11:12:13 PM »
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Very sorry to read about this, @Matt - when they get to the stage of breathing heavily/fast, it's not usually a good sign, unfortunately. Glad that the other fish seem fine, though.

I really would advise having your own test kit for peace of mind, at least, though. Sometimes, if there's a problem, the weakest / most sensitive fish succumbs first, then the others follow suit. Testing / having your water tested regularly would at least confirm/eliminate that as a potential factor.

As for the filter, there's an interesting thread here that might be of interest: http://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/tank-equipment-reviews/eheim-pick-up-filters/msg31501/?topicseen#new

All the very best for trying not to beat yourself up about this - very, very difficult, if not impossible, as I know from plentiful experience. Take care.



Offline MarquisMirage

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2016, 02:35:41 AM »
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Damn, sorry about your GBR.  :(

Offline Matt

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2016, 07:23:44 AM »
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I've got one of these on the way https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003DHEWQA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&p;sc=1
Hopefully it's accurate enough just to highlight any major problems...

Also had an idea about redesigning the filter... photo below (ok I mean terrible sketch done on tablet) tries to explain.

Basically the water enters at the bottom of an open top box (in black) and currently flows from back to front through:
Yellow = my added bio balls
Blue = carbon within filter floss pad
Red = "algaway pad"

I'm thinking of changing it to flow bottom to top:
Yellow = bio balls
Red = sponge (algaway pad seems to degrade over time)

Just in case that makes no sense at all (quite likely  :yikes: ) its this filter https://www.amazon.co.uk/Interpet-Internal-Cartridge-Filter-CF2/dp/B00ITQKZIE/ref=sr_1_2?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1482564299&sr=1-2&keywords=Cf2 (second image)

Offline Littlefish

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2016, 08:44:48 AM »
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The test strips are accurate enough to keep track of what is happening with your tank. I strated out with the API test strips, but as I got more tanks I found it more cost effective to moce to the API master test kit. Buying from Amazon is cheaper than buying from LFS, and it lasts for ages.
Test strips are very quick and easy to use though, so there are times that I wish I could still use them on my tanks, as it takes me quite a long time to test them all.

I have a couple of the filters you mention. I think they originally came with some of the tanks when I bought them. I was worried that some of my more acrobatic fish my jump into the top, so those filters now reside in my axolotl tanks, and are still going strong.  :)

I don't have enough experience to comment on changing the filter, but I'm sure that the others will be able to give advice.  :)

Offline Matt

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2016, 09:06:49 AM »
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@Littlefish do you use the normal replacement cartridges in yours?

I have had fish jump into the filter in the past, when I first got my harlequins... they soon learnt not to do that again!!

Offline fcmf

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2016, 05:01:43 PM »
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Hi Matt,

This filter looks very similar to the Marina i110 which I have. (I may replace it shortly but put those plans on hold when it decided to start functioning well, typically just after I'd made the decision to replace it!)

The Marina filter which I have contains/contained a plastic grid and a filter cartridge comprising filter wool 'packets' filled with carbon and zeolite. Once the filter wool cartridges became saturated, the flow reduced and the advice on the packaging was that these required replaced at this stage - but that the plastic grid would contain the beneficial bacteria. In essence, the filter cartridges would have required replacing every few weeks.

Following advice on here, I kept the plastic grid part of the filter but dismantled the filter wool cartridges by cutting the filter wool as close to the plastic casing surrounding it (quite tough to do), scraping away all the carbon and zeolite pieces (very messy), and then wrapping the filter wool round some new filter sponge which I cut to size to fit in the space which had previously housed the filter cartridge, so that the filter wool would transfer/multiply the beneficial bacteria on it across/onto to the sponge.

The advantage of this is that the filter cartridges don't need replaced when they become clogged, and, more importantly, they don't need removed if I have to dose medication (due to the carbon being in them). It also means that, theoretically, if I had to set up a quarantine tank, I could just remove some of the sponge from the filter into another filter rather than having to use new, uncycled filter media - as it happens, though, I have two filters in my tank, so would remove one of those filters if I had to set up a QT.

Hope that helps, if indeed your filter is as similar to mine as I think it is.

Offline Andy The Minion

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Re: RIP "the little guy"
« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2016, 11:43:45 PM »
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Matt, I don't know this filter but it looks like the bottom section is an open box which then feeds water up the front and then into three sections of media from front to back? If this is true then the intake box could be filled with an open structured media like bio balls.
Once the water has travel up the front (is it possible to put a thin-ish sheet of very coarse foam in there? passed through a fine foam and then maybe a floss in the second slot. The majority of the suspended solids will have been removed (and the floss replaced weekly) I would have thought ceramic media would be a good final stage either skipping the carbon or a small bag at the top so its easy to replace without disturbing the ceramic media.

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