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Newbie Hello

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Offline Aquarius Barbara

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #50 on: September 11, 2017, 10:07:00 PM »
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Hi, Matt, I bought 2 none return valves for £3.99 when I was at Maidenhead Aquatics along with a few other bits.

But I did fall in love with some  Endlers Guppies they are beautiful and so tiny so going to look them up to see if it is worth while having them.
Will I be able to have some Malaysian Trumpets snails in my tank, with it just being a small 55lt I don't want to over crowd it.?

I am considering subscribing to PFK mag as they are doing 2 years for the price of 1. at the moment. I have enjoyed reading this one so looks like it might be a go'er.

Online Matt

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #51 on: September 11, 2017, 10:22:28 PM »
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Snails don't add much bioload to a tank. Not something you need to worry about as they will probably do more harm than good  :)

However, Endlers need hard water,as do most livebearing fish I'm afraid...

Offline Aquarius Barbara

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #52 on: September 12, 2017, 09:20:22 AM »
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Sorry Matt I don't understand, the snails do "more harm than good"??  :-\

Offline Sue

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #53 on: September 12, 2017, 10:01:31 AM »
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I think Matt might have written that backwards  ;D

Snails are a useful part of the ecosystem of a tank, as long as they don't multiply out of control. The way to stop that is by not overfeeding the fish once you have them.
Malaysian trumpet snails spend the day in the substrate looking for bits of food, though they do come out in the dark, and they turn stir up sand. They are also a useful early warning system - if you ever see them climbing the tank walls in daylight, test your tank water. Snails don't like ammonia and nitrite so if that appears in the water they try to get away from it by climbing out of the tank.

I have MTS as well as other snails in my tanks. Some I have bought, other's came with live plants.



Once, decades ago, fishkeepers killed every snail they saw. The out of date books I got from the library in the 1990s said snail were bad because they brought diseases into the tank. We now know different. I suppose if we went and collected snails from the local pond, that wouldn't be a good idea, but then using anything else from the local pond is not recommended.

Offline MarquisMirage

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #54 on: September 12, 2017, 10:42:46 AM »
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Have you bought any of the trumpet snails yet?  If you haven't let me hook you up with some for free.  PM me your address and I'll get them out to you.

Offline Aquarius Barbara

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #55 on: September 12, 2017, 11:44:40 AM »
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I have not set tank up yet will be in the next week waiting for the water testing kit to arrive, slight delay due to me ordering wrong kit. But should be here by the end of the week. But I will contact you as soon as I am ready for them if that is still ok. Thank You. Bx

Offline Sue

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #56 on: September 12, 2017, 12:53:36 PM »
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It would be best to wait until the tank has cycled. I know it is said that Malaysian trumpet snails and cockroaches will be only survivors of a nuclear holocaust, but better safe than sorry. The species of snails we buy (nerite snails, apple snails if the EU hadn't banned them, etc ) are more sensitive to ammonia and nitrite than fish, though pest snails seem to be able to survive them.

Offline Aquarius Barbara

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #57 on: September 12, 2017, 03:47:58 PM »
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Yes I was going to wait until I was ready to stock, just watching some you tube videos which are helping a lot as I can see what they are doing and making notes as I go. Thanks.

Offline Aquarius Barbara

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #58 on: September 12, 2017, 06:19:51 PM »
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Progress report:
Bought stand sorting that tonight,
Everything other than fish and plants bought so once all arrives I will be getting started.
Could well be this weekend. Fingers crossed everyone.  :fishy1:

 ::)
Made another mistake I have just bought the interpet internal aquarium power filter PF1. then on reading more it is a pump as well so don't need the air pump I bought unless it does not aerate the water enough, then it will come in handy.

Offline Sue

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #59 on: September 12, 2017, 06:45:29 PM »
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Most filters do aerate the water properly

Gas exchange takes place at the surface of the water. Oxygen dissolves in the water to replace that taken up by the fish. Carbon dioxide which is made by fish respiring leaves the water (live plants do make things more complex, but that's the basic idea). If the water did not move around, the same water would be at the surface all the time so that oxygen would have to diffuse down into the water before more could dissolve and carbon dioxide would have to diffuse to the surface for more to leave. If the water is churned up, carbon dioxide rich water from lower down in the tank is brought to the surface so carbon dioxide can be lost faster than still water; oxygen rich oxygenated waster is pushed down in the tank faster than it can can diffuse down.
Filters churn the water up by 'blowing' water through the tank. With air pumps, the bubbles churn up the water.

But the air pump is not a waste.

There are two occasions when using both a filter and an air pump can be useful, and these are when the water is warmer than usual. The warmer the water the less oxygen it can hold, so the more it is churned up the better. If your fish ever get whitespot part of the treatment is to turn the heater up, so air filters help get more oxygen into the water. And during a heatwave, they also help.

And should you ever develop multiple tank syndrome you may decide to get fish that like less water flow, and for this type of fish a sponge filter powered by an air pump is ideal. This is what I use in my betta's tank.

Offline MarquisMirage

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #60 on: September 12, 2017, 07:01:09 PM »
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I have a PF1 I've used but is currently a spare.  Replaced by a sponge filter when the shrimp tank was converted to a betta tank.  It has a built in venturi system on the top if you want the extra bubbles. :)  The instructions will tell you how to set it up as I can't recall off the top of my head.

Online Matt

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #61 on: September 12, 2017, 07:20:22 PM »
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I use an air pump primarily after feeding to get rid of any protein scum /oil on the waters surface.

Offline Aquarius Barbara

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #62 on: September 12, 2017, 09:33:28 PM »
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Do you think that filter will be enough to aerate the tank or should I add an air stone in line as well?

I have now set my stand up with the tank on just so I can get the feel of having it in the living room.
hope it does not end up being too noisy as I am deaf on my right side and that is going to be on my left when I sit watching tv. Might have a play tomorrow and just see if it will fit in opposite corner. not sure about space.

Starting to get a little bit anxious and excited together, going to start reading up on the water testing. 

Thanks, All Bxx


Online Matt

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #63 on: September 12, 2017, 09:55:36 PM »
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I agree with Sue that the filter will be enough to aerate the tank on its own

Offline Sue

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #64 on: September 12, 2017, 10:02:44 PM »
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The flow rate of the Interpet PF1 is rated at 380 litres/hour. The minimum usually recommended is 5 times the tank volume per hour so for your 55 litres you need around 275 litres per hour. The PF1 should be plenty.

However, the manual says it has a white foam and a black, carbon impregnated, black foam. The on-line manual appears to have been photocopied from a creased sheet of paper. It ends the bottom of one column with "The foams can be washed in a bucket containing aquarium water. The carbon" and that sentence is supposed to continue at the top of the next column, only it's missing in this poor copy. If it says it should be replaced regularly, don't. Carbon gets full which is why they probably say to replace it, but carbon isn't actually needed. Since this carbon is in a sponge, just treat it like a white foam.

http://www.interpet.co.uk/Media/InterpetUK/Skoo/2201/2201_7.pdf

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #65 on: September 12, 2017, 10:20:31 PM »
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Great to see that you have the tank and stand set up.....and the stand looks as if it could even take a bigger tank, you know, if necessary, in the future.  ;)

Offline MarquisMirage

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #66 on: September 12, 2017, 10:59:40 PM »
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I agree the PF1 alone will be enough.  I see you went with the same aquarium stand as I use for my betta tank and volcano tank. :D  So much störage.

Offline Aquarius Barbara

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #67 on: September 12, 2017, 11:03:10 PM »
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The stand is just an Ikea kallax unit with the cupboard inserts. it states in the blurb that it supposedly only takes a weight of 13 kg but not sure if that is the weight of unit or weight it can take ???. we are going to get 2 baskets for the bottom as I hate seeing all the wires. but I certainly think it looks better than the one that comes with the tank, that one was far to plain for me, a picture below.

Offline Aquarius Barbara

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #68 on: September 12, 2017, 11:07:47 PM »
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Hi Mark,
 I was a bit wary about what to use as a stand, I did not want anything too big or too small. Weight bearing is a problem with some of the high street cupboards/storage unit as they can be rather flimsy I have the larger 6 hole unit in my dining room as a book case so thought this should be ok for my tank which will be 55kg + once fully set up.  What size and approx weight are your tanks if you don't mind me asking.

Offline MarquisMirage

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #69 on: September 12, 2017, 11:25:49 PM »
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The volcano tank is 60 l and the betta tank is 30 l.   I see what you mean about the weight thing on the Ikea website (I hadn't considered it may be an issue) as it says 13 kg per shelf.  I take that to mean the thinner shelves on the inside rather than the top.  The tops seem sturdy enough to me and I don't think it will become a problem.

Online Matt

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #70 on: September 13, 2017, 05:54:20 AM »
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It has been known for me and my wife to both sit on a cupboard to test its weight bearing capacity!  :rotfl:

I wonder if it might be worth changing the carbon sponge for some ordinary filter sponge. I have read about carbon releasing the nasties it's taken in when it becomes full... agree with Sue that it should not be replaced regularly though as you would loose all the beneficial bacteria within it.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #71 on: September 13, 2017, 07:12:24 AM »
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@Aquarius Barbara I like that cabinet.

As for thinks like Ikea cabinets, I have used brackets like those in the link below to reinforce cabinets and bookcases to allow for fish tank storage. I have repurposed/rebuilt a few items, and added extra panels and brackets, to make sure that the units can take the weight.
http://www.diy.com/departments/silver-effect-steel-angle-bracket/243264_BQ.prd

I have also been known to test the load bearing capacity of a unit in much the same way as Matt has described, and so far so good. You would be amazed at what you can do if you are determined to make space for some extra fish tanks (my tv stand houses a Fluval Roma 125).  :)

Offline Aquarius Barbara

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #72 on: September 13, 2017, 09:39:58 AM »
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I have a larger tank that is a meter long it fits great into an alcove opposite corner to the one I showed last night. So I will be looking for something similar to put that on. The cabinet that came with it (second hand) on closer inspection is a bit damaged, we have flat packed it and keeping it for now as we might use it as a template to build a new one ourselves if we can get a similar coloured board or wood.

Offline Ian1962

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #73 on: September 17, 2017, 07:15:14 AM »
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Hi Barbara
Sorry for this late reply. If you like Aquarium snails, you might consider Nitre snails. There are a few different types, with different colours and markings. Also another advantage with them, is they can't breed in freshwater. They need salt water to breed, but live happily in fresh water. I have subscribed to Practical Fish Keeping for many years. It an excellent magazine, full of information and articals. If you subscribe by direct debit, you can get freebies when your renewal is due. We all love a freebie don't we. I've had free filters, fish food, over the years. It's a no loose situation. I hope you find this useful.
     :fishy1:

[Nerite snails - just fixing the spelling to allay any potential confusion.  :) Moderator  C:-).]

Online Matt

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #74 on: September 17, 2017, 09:00:48 AM »
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Which version do you get Ian? Print or digital?

Online Matt

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #75 on: September 17, 2017, 09:11:18 AM »
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Just read through the diploma stuff... I'm getting confused by something...

To set the scene, it states that "water movement is vital in bringing deoxygenated water from the bottom of the tank to the top of the tank, where it can be replenished with oxygen."
This all makes sense.
But I'm struggling with "Increasing the surface area through water movement will increase the rate at which gas can be absorbed or released."
Whilst I can't deny that a less smooth water surface will have a greater surface area than a perfectly flat surface area... but surely it is the water movement around the tank (as in the first quote) that is the overriding factor??

Thoughts please!!...

Offline Sue

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #76 on: September 17, 2017, 10:30:34 AM »
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My understanding is that with no water movement, the same bit of water stays at the top all the time. But moving that top layer down and the bottom layer up effectively creates a larger water surface because it is not the same bit of water at the surface all the time.

I could be wrong though  ;D

Online Matt

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #77 on: September 17, 2017, 11:44:48 AM »
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effectively creates

I think this is the key word!!

Offline Ian1962

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #78 on: September 17, 2017, 03:44:25 PM »
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Hi Matt
I get the print version of Practical Fish keeping. It's my understanding that it's both the surface aggertation and the water movement, around the whole tank that helps with the re oxygenation of the water. I hope that make sense. :)

Offline MarquisMirage

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #79 on: September 17, 2017, 06:40:02 PM »
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Yay science!  At 25 degrees Celsius and 1 bar of pressure oxygen solubility is at 40 mg/L water.  With normal air composition oxygen partial pressure is 0.2 standard atmospheres.  Dissolution equals 40 x 0.2 = 8 mg O (subscript) 2/L in water that comes in contact with air.

So they meant surface contact instead of 'surface area'.  Which is what everyone else has said already.  So...  er...  yeah.

Offline Aquarius Barbara

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #80 on: September 17, 2017, 11:22:18 PM »
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You lot are frightening me I haven't even started yet and I am pulling my hair out.   :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:

Offline MarquisMirage

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #81 on: September 18, 2017, 08:26:31 PM »
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lol, we made it far more complicated than it needs to be.

Offline Sue

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #82 on: September 18, 2017, 09:06:01 PM »
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The good thing about this hobby is that you can learn what to do without knowing why. Then if you are interested in why you can research that at your leisure. Some of us like to learn about water chemistry (as I have a chemistry degree I do find the chemistry to be interesting). Others are more interested in growing plants so learn a lot about that. Or breeding fish. Starting out is a steep learning curve. There is plenty time for further reading once you have the basics right  :)

Offline Aquarius Barbara

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #83 on: September 18, 2017, 10:50:12 PM »
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Fingers crossed should be starting the setup by end of the week just waiting for a couple of things to come, then I will nip out and get some plants. and I will be good to go. B x

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #84 on: September 19, 2017, 08:27:48 AM »
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I cannot emphasize enough how steep the initial learning curve is. It's steeeeeeeeeeeeep.
Even with reading up on as many topics as you can, when you have responsibility for the welfare of live animals it is very different. Fish are a little different to most pets because of their environment.
Any problems can cause a lot of panic, so please use the resources around you. We are here to help, those of us with less experience can provide moral support, while those with more experience can provide answers and advice.
It's also worth getting to know the staff at your LFS, although their job is to sell stuff, most of them are passionate about fish and can also provide useful information.
Finally a warning. You will find yourself interested in the "why" and start researching, whether it be the chemistry, plants, whatever, and then a whole, huge, watery world of wonder will become apparent. At that point you'll find that it has all become very addictive, and you will need huge reserves of willpower not to immediately start planning your next tank.  :-[   :)

Offline Sue

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #85 on: September 19, 2017, 08:53:48 AM »
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you will need huge reserves of willpower not to immediately start planning your next tank.

So that's your problem, Littlefish, lack of willpower  ;D

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Newbie Hello
« Reply #86 on: September 19, 2017, 12:18:03 PM »
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you will need huge reserves of willpower not to immediately start planning your next tank.

So that's your problem, Littlefish, lack of willpower  ;D

Absolutely Sue.
I'm almost as bad when I see new plants for the garden.  ::)  ;D

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