Tropical Fish Forum
Think Fish Tropical Fish Forum => Introductions and hello's => Topic started by: AndreaCC on September 26, 2016, 10:11:14 AM
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Hi everyone :) my name is Andrea and I'm looking to getting back into fish keeping! At the moment I have a 140L tropical tank which I'm in the process of doing up again. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions as I go along so I'm looking forward to your feedback and hoping to be able to contribute some as well :)
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Hi Andrea, welcome to the forum :wave:
We are a nosey lot here and will expect progress reports and photos..... ;D
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(http://imgur.com/DpYj47y.jpg)
Welcome along @AndreaCC , looking forward to helping and hearing about your progress...
What are your plans for stocking the tank?
Will you be doing a fishless cycle?
See you around :cheers:
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Hello Andrea, and welcome to the forum.
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My 140l is actually running at the moment although I've let it get very sad unfortunately. I've kept up with water changes but haven't bought any fish in about 18 months and have let the plants get really out of control. At this point I have about seven cardinal tetras, 2 black widow tetras from the previous owner, 1 honey gourami from the previous owner and 1 peppermint bristle nose. Plus far more snails than I would like. So I've decided that my first addition should probably be chain loaches for the snails. After that I would like to add some more tetras, some panda cities, lace gouramis and finally some blue Rams. I do however feel like this might be too many fish? If so I wouldn't have a clue which ones to cut :/
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This is a picture of it currently. I took out all my old plants yesterday and replaced them with these. But it's still looking very sparse, so any ideas for aquascaping would be much appreciated :)
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You could enter your fish and wish list into the Community Creator. Click on Fish Profiles at the top, choose any fish and scroll down to the CC. In order to save your entries you have to register separately from the forum - I just use the same password to make it easier to remember :)
Just one word of caution - you do know how much dwarf chain loaches cost? You'd need a shoal of them.
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Nice tank... but, as you say, a bit sparse. There're some free plants on offer in the for sale or give away section of the forum, they may be a good idea to start with. Java fern on bogwood is alway a good addition, too.
If you want to reduce the snail population then assassin snails will do that very effectively (and much more cheaply) than chain loaches.
Did you mean to type 'panda cories' - because they're much happier on a sand substrate as they like to sift through it.
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Thanks Sue, it's an amazing tool! I just did that and it looks like I would definitely be pushing it for space. How many chain loaches would I need? I was thinking 4-5? And how much do they generally cost?
Colin, would assassin snails not breed like these snails do? And I'll knock panda cories off the list if they wouldn't be happy with my substrate :)
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Colin, would assassin snails not breed like these snails do?
Nope - they breed very slowly and always in response to the amount of food they have. You can always sell/give away some of them when your snail problem is under control. Clickety-click (http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/fish/assassin-snail.html).
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The cheapest I've seen dwarf chain loaches in recent years is £7.50 EACH. I've just looked on the website of a not too near shop, and they are currently charging £8.95 each. The recommended shoal size is 5 or 6 minimum. They also prefer a sand substrate as they too like to grub around for food - when I had them is wasn't unusual to see them vertical in the water with their nose in the sand.
A website to give you, if you haven't already found it, is Seriously Fish (http://www.seriouslyfish.com/knowledge-base/) which has more species and more info on each species than the profiles on here.
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I have added two assassin snails to my tank to bring the population of Malaysian trumpet snails under control... And so far the initial signs are good. Several shells have been found and I see the snails heading to the surface a lot more so they are definitely having a positive effect. Can recommend Assassin's for your tank, they do look cool 8)
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Hi Andrea and welcome to the forum. :cheers:
I also have assassin snails in some of my tanks and they are very efficient. :)
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Thank you so much everybody! So chain loaches are also out, not so much for the price but for wanting a sand substrate, and assassin snails are in :) that'll also bring my bio load down substantially. Should I look at getting a different species for the sake of having something hanging out in the bottom level, or will the Rams be enough do you think?
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Are you absolutely set on rams?
The reason I ask is that they do much better in soft acidic water (though I don't know what you have :) ) and a temperature in the higher 20's C. which is warmer than most other fish like.
Alternatives include bolivian rams and apistogrammas.
Both types of rams also like to choose their own mates. Males are territorial and you may have problems with 2 males. There are two ways to get a pair - buy half a dozen juveniles, wait till two pair up then rehome the rest; or study the shop tank for quite a while before making your choice. Once they get used to you staring in at them they'll start behaving normally and you should be able to tell if two are swimming together in harmony, and chasing off all the other fish.
The common apistos are harem breeders, and 1 male, 2 females should be OK in your tank, with 3 caves (1 per female and 1 spare) spaced evenly over the tank floor.
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Welcome, Andrea. :wave:
Your best bet, unless your existing fish are very old, is to increase the size of existing shoals in the first instance - shoaling fish such as tetras do best in groups of 6+ of their own kind (ie black widow tetras being one kind, cardinal tetras another) but the more, the better, as they'll display more natural and interesting behaviour. For example, unless your black widow tetras are quite old, you could increase their shoal size to 6+.
Once you've decided whether and by how much to increase the shoal sizes of each of your black widow tetras and cardinal tetras, then you can focus in more on what other type of fish from your wish-list to get. It's best to get fish that suit your water type - put your postcode into your water/utility company website and find out and let us know what the various readings for hardness are (eg in degrees Clark, German or French measurements), and we'll be able to advise further on what would work best ie thrive best in your aquarium. Seriously Fish, which Sue refers to, gives specific details on suitable water hardness levels - but you may need to translate your unit of measurement into the ones used there.
Hope this is helpful. It's all very exciting for us to read about your tank resurrection and get involved in helping you transform it into a work of wonder. :)
:fishy1:
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I absolutely love dwarf cichlids and I thought Rams would do well in my tank, but actually I would be just as happy with apistos if they'd be easier :)
I don't think I'd replace the black widows because I don't actually like them very much. But they came with the tank and the seller said if I didn't want them then he'd chuck them into the garden so I took them. I'm considering getting more cardinals but need to think about which tetras I really like. I'm thinking of having two different types with 10 of each? I really like zebra danios as well but feel like they'd need a bigger tank?
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I've just had a look at the water parameters for my area. It says that the alkalinity is 5, the hardness is 5 and the pH is 7.5. Not sure if the alkalinity is relevant lol
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I've just had a look at the water parameters for my area. It says that the alkalinity is 5, the hardness is 5 and the pH is 7.5. Not sure if the alkalinity is relevant lol
Can you tell us the units for Alkalinity and Hardness, please. It'll probably be dGH or Clark. They're similar enough to be able to say you have reasonably soft water with 5 - best not to keep specific hard water fish like platties, mollies, guppies etc. Any medium to soft water fish will be fine.
The alkalinity is a measure of the buffering capacity of your water, and this tells you how stable the pH will be. If you have very low alkalinity then you can get a pH crash where your tank water turns acidic very quickly (i.e. overnight) and kills your fish. An alkalinity of 5 will be OK as long as you do weekly partial water changes.
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Sounds like the rams are a goer :)
:fishy1:
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All it says for the alkalinity is that it's CaCO3 in mg per litre and for hardness it just says mg/L. Does this help? Or should I give them a call?
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All it says for the alkalinity is that it's CaCO3 in mg per litre and for hardness it just says mg/L. Does this help? Or should I give them a call?
OK, so they're both in mg/l and 17.85 mg/l = 1 dGH (German Hardness)
So your hardness is less than 1 dGH, which means your water is super, super soft.
Without wishing to be rude, could you post a link to the water quality report for your postcode please, 'cos if that is the hardness and alkalinity then remedial action will be necessary to get stable water conditions.
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Lol that's not rude, and my chemistry is terrible so I'd appreciate if you checked what I'm saying! https://www.watercorporation.com.au/-/media/files/about-us/our-performance/drinking-water-quality/dwq-annual-report-perth-aesthetic-tables.pdf
I'm in the Kenwick area, which is the eighth line from the bottom :)
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Do you mean South Perth/Kewdale? That's the 8th from the bottom.
There are several units used to measure hardness, but only two of them are used in fishkeeping - german degrees (aka dH), and ppm (aka mg/l). Those are the two you will see in fish profiles in websites. Your table gives them in mg/l, the same as ppm, so I'll convert them to german degrees for you.
Water companies take several samples and they give the values for the highest, the lowest and the mean. I usually go by the mean value.
The mean alkalinity (fishkeepers call this KH, for carbonate hardness) is 87 ppm, or 4.9 german deg
The mean hardness (fishkeepers call this GH or just hardness) is 80 ppm or 4.5 german deg.
The mean pH is 7.73
In other words, your water is similar to mine - I have 5 degrees GH, 3 degrees KH and pH 7.5-ish.
You will find in fish profiles that a species likes soft acid water or hard alkaline water. We have soft alkaline water just to be awkward. Fish can cope with a pH outside their preferred range better than a hardness outside the normal range. Go for soft water fish, but avoid those than must have a low pH.
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...and similar to mine, too, in mid-Wales.
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Thanks Sue :) sorry yes on that graph I fall into the south Perth area. Okay that makes sense :) so are there any species you can recommend that would do particularly well?
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Virtually all fish from South America (I'm thinking tetras and dwarf cichlids) would be fine, just check on Seriously Fish that a particular species can cope with a high-ish pH as some species do need a low pH as well as soft water. And there are plenty of Asian fish that would fit the bill as well.
The main problem you might encounter is where you live - Australia. I know from other websites that Australia does not allow some fish that other countries have access to, so make sure you can get the fish you want before planning a tank round a particular species.
If you look at my signature you'll see the fish I currently have, which are fine for soft alkaline water. In the past I've had honey gouramis, golden pencilfish, dwarf chain loaches (I have sand!), ember tetras, emperor tetras, dwarf rainbowfish, aptisogrammas to name a few.
The simplest thing might be to check out a few shops and see what you can source locally. Then come back with a list of fish you liked the looks of. There are just so many fish out there........
Talking of alkalinity in water companies' data, it is worth an explanation.
This is not the same thing as having a pH above 7, which is more correctly called basic. Water companies use this term because of their test method. They take a sample of water and add an acid until the pH drops to a certain value (I think it is 4.5 in the UK). The amount of acid this takes is what they mean by alkalinity. Since the naturally occurring chemical in the water that resists the acid (meaning more acid must be added to drop the pH) is carbonate, the other term for it is carbonate hardness which is what fishkeepers use. It is called KH simply because the German for carbonate starts with a K.
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Thank you Sue, that's really helpful :) I actually did like the dwarf rainbows a lot, and I might get them instead of the pearl gouramis if they would be a better fit :) creating a proper bio type aquarium could be quite cool, although I'll probably fail on the plants lol the area I live in has a few really good fish shops, and there's an online store which is very good so I'm not too worried about not being able to find a good range of species :) I've certainly seen everything you've mentioned so far apart from the assassin snails
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This is a very exciting part of tank set up - researching fish. ;D
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It is indeed! Okay so for a provisional stocking list I'm thinking
3 pearl gouramis 1m 2f
3 apistogrammas 1m 2f
1 peppermint bristle nose
2 assassin snails if I can find them
10 Cardinal tetras
10 zebra danios
I'll also add more plants and two additional caves for the apistos. Does that sound good?
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That sounds OK to me.
In the UK, the most common apistos are A. cacatuoides (cockatoo cichlids) and A. agassizii. Some shops stock A. borellii (umbrella cichlid). The first two come in a few different colour forms, while the third had a couple, including yellow head and opal. If Australia has these three available, they will all do fine at your pH. All three are in the fish profiles on here.
Be careful with cockatoos. In a tank with a lot of fish (ie a shop tank) there will be a dominant male and several subordinate males. These subordinate males often take on the appearance of females to escape being bullied by the dominant male. I once bought a pair from a breeder which turned out to be 2 males. And I later had a group of fry bred in my tank. One subordinate male even took on the yellow colour of a female in breeding condition before suddenly growing his fin extensions :o
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About ten minutes from me is a fabulous cichlid specialist, so I think I'll start there :) thank you so much for your help everyone, I'll keep you updated on how I go!
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I'd keep an eye on the temperatures... zebra danios prefer cooler water than gouramis or apistogrammas and are a good fish for an unheated tank. There's a very narrow overlap at 24ºC. The danios are also very active and could stress out the gourami. However; I've never kept either species so I could be talking tosh!
Harlequin rasboras might be a good alternative to the danios. Colourful, shoaling, but more laid back.
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Colin is quite right, danios do prefer cooler temps but are do-able if you are very careful about the tank temp.
Having just bought some hengel's rasboras, which are very similar to harlequins, I can say that they are indeed colourful, less zoomy fish and won't nip at the gourami's feelers.
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I can confirm that zebra danios are very active fish and can be quite dominant at feeding time. I have mine in an unheated tank which also contains leopard danios, variatus platies, peppered cories and amano shrimp. They are all very active.
Rasboras are beautiful. Unfortunately I haven't got any as my water is very hard.
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Okay cool :) in Perth it gets really hot and while I can keep control of the tank temperature to a degree, I do need to know that an increase of a couple of degrees won't be detrimental. I like the harlequin rasboras so I'll get those instead :)
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I like the harlequin rasboras so I'll get those instead :)
Excellent choice of fish. I have them too. :)
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I like the harlequin rasboras so I'll get those instead :)
Excellent choice of fish. I have them too. :)
+1, I love my harlequins 8)