Tropical Fish Forum
Think Fish Tropical Fish Forum => Introductions and hello's => Topic started by: fjord_fisk on February 07, 2020, 08:49:04 AM
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HI,
So, im living in Stavanger, Norway, for the last 8 years.
Started keeping fish in April last year, with a 54l Eheim starter tank.
Had some livebearers, (guppies and Platies) and a couple of Ancistrus, and later some honey Gouramis.
Made my fair share of mistakes in the beginning, but overall did okay and my wife was happy enough to allow me to upgrade to a bigger tank!
So for xmas Santa Claus gave me a 325l tank, a couple of photos are attached.
So the two ancistrus, the platies (that survived my beginner mistakes) and Gouramis have been moved to the Big Tank with some Cardinal tetras.
Added some Angel fish a couple of weeks ago and a pair has formed and have laid eggs! They did hatch but were mercilessly hunted down and eaten......so I think I will use my 54l tank to move the eggs to next time, would gladly hear any advice from anyone here on this subject!
The tap water here in Stavanger has no Chlorine in it so thats good as can fill directly from the tap without adding any conditioners. It is a relatively high PH of 8 but at the same time soft with a KH and GH of 3. With the Tropica Soil, wood and plants, the PH in the tank seems to settle around 7.
Anyway I have lots of questions and lots to learn but really enjoying the hobby and the kids are into it also.
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You're very welcome here :wave:
Your story is very interesting - I'll reply properly in due course (can't at the moment unfortunately). Having a 54L myself (and coincidentally, a similar PH to you and very soft water like you), I'm very envious of your 325L tank!
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Pictures added
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Welcome to the forum. Nice to know there’s someone even colder than we are. :)
Your big tank looks good. It looks like some of your cardinals are neons?
Who ate the fry, the parents themselves? It can take them a few goes to realise what they’re supposed to do...
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Well spotted Hampalong, there are 3 neons and 8 cardinal tetras. There were 3 lonely neons in the local fish shop so they added them for free when i bought the cardinals, they all school together.
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Pictures added
:cheers: 8)
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Hi there @fjord_fisk and welcome to the forum. :wave:
Great to have someone from Norway join the forum. Thanks for the pictures, your tank looks great. :)
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Hei!
Like the look of your tank and congrats on the angel fish eggs. The group here are very knowledgeable about most topics so I’m sure we can help answer your questions. I seem to have become the local specialist for plants and aquascaping, happy to help with anything if I can :cheers:
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Hi @fjord_fisk
As others have already said, great to have a TF member in Norway. Welcome! :wave:
I once kept Angel Fish but it was such a long time ago that I can't offer much there. But, I suspect that others here can share their knowledge of keeping these elegant fish. As they lay eggs on leaves, that makes things easy for you to move the eggs to another tank for raising fry. I raised German Blue Ram fry about 18 months ago. It was quite a lot of work preparing the live food but it was such a rewarding experience.
Having a particular interest in water chemistry, I was interested to read that "The tap water here in Stavanger has no Chlorine in it so thats good as can fill directly from the tap without adding any conditioners". If there's no chlorine in your water, there is a (high?) probability that your tap water contains chloramine. If that's the case, then you would normally need to use a tap water conditioner. A KH and GH of 3dH is, indeed, very soft water. Plenty of suitable fish to choose from there. And, what about that 325 litre tank? So much potential with a tank that size.
I look forward to hearing more about your future plans.
JPC
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@jaypeecee Knowing your love for a bit of science and a journal paper, you may wish to read up on the Norwegian water supply systems use of no chemical disinfectants, such as here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/40742083_The_Dutch_secret_How_to_provide_safe_drinking_water_without_chlorine_in_the_Netherlands (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/40742083_The_Dutch_secret_How_to_provide_safe_drinking_water_without_chlorine_in_the_Netherlands)
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Thanks for the link @Matt I've only skimmed through for now, but that's amazing.
I'm not showing it to the fish in case they insist on moving to Norway. :rotfl:
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I think mine might insist on moving to the Netherlands, after reading that article. ;)
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@jaypeecee Knowing your love for a bit of science and a journal paper, you may wish to read up on the Norwegian water supply systems use of no chemical disinfectants, such as here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/40742083_The_Dutch_secret_How_to_provide_safe_drinking_water_without_chlorine_in_the_Netherlands (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/40742083_The_Dutch_secret_How_to_provide_safe_drinking_water_without_chlorine_in_the_Netherlands)
Hi @Matt
Many thanks for that. I have just read the paper that you cited which, incidentally, refers to the Dutch way of processing water. It makes for very interesting reading. In a nutshell, this is what they do:
"Treat using physical processes such as sedimentation, filtration and UV-disinfection. If it cannot be avoided also oxidation by means of ozone or peroxide can be used, but chlorine is not used..."
I searched this paper within Adobe Reader and the word 'chloramine' doesn't get a mention! Essentially, rather than rely on chemical agents to carry out disinfection, the Dutch system uses ultraviolet light. Using UV-C is such an elegant way of disinfecting water. UV-C is very short wavelength (invisible) 'light' with a wavelength of 253.7nm. The visible spectrum is from 400nm - 700nm.
Does the Norwegian system take the same approach as that adopted by the Dutch system?
JPC
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This whole issue got me intrigued - it seems that different countries use chlorine and chloramination to a greater or lesser degree.
This is quite interesting: https://www.fhi.no/en/op/hin/infectious-diseases/drinking-water-in-Norway/ and this generally https://apps.who.int/iris/handle/10665/272969
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Yes they do, the water pipes are a lot newer and in better condition with less chance of leaks and therefore infiltration of nasties which allows this system to be successful but people must be vigilant of coloured water as this is an indication of ingress to the network and possible contamination. For us it might look bad but it’s probably still safe.
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Yes they do, the water pipes are a lot newer and in better condition with less chance of leaks and therefore infiltration of nasties which allows this system to be successful but people must be vigilant of coloured water as this is an indication of ingress to the network and possible contamination. For us it might look bad but it’s probably still safe.
Hi @Matt
Fascinating indeed. I seem to recall recently some comments you made about energy usage and conservation. Forgive me for asking but is this a field in which you work? You're obviously very knowledgeable about these topics.
JPC
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I used to work for a water company. I have also studied environmental management at masters level. It’s definitely an interest of mine!
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Hi, interesting discussion!
In addition to oil and gas Norway has an abundance of fresh water, it rains a LOT, lots of mountains and very little population density. The source water they use is in effect perfectly drinkable without any filtering/cleaning. However from their website;
'The methods used are UV and chlorine treatment which inactivates microorganisms, precipitation with iron chloride and membrane filtration which removes particles and organic matter as well as marble filtration which both removes particles and increases the pH of the water.
So it appears they do use chlorine but a very minimal amount, and in any case the aquarium shops here have said that I can use the water straight from the tap without conditioning, have tested and doesn't contain any measurable amount, and basically have been doing weekly 30%ish water changes for a almost a year on my tanks straight from the tap. If my fish start all dying though....... ;)
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Hi @fjord_fisk
Very interesting information - thank you! It's really useful to compare tap water between different countries. In the UK, we can get a comprehensive yearly Water Report. It lists a whole range of elements, compounds, herbicides, insecticides, etc. So, things of interest to we aquarists would be hardness, pH, nitrates and the heavy metals, for example. For my water supply in 2017, here are some mean figures:
Nitrate: 29.05 mg/l
Iron: 12.52 micrograms/l
Magnesium: 4.30 mg/l
Copper: 0.08 mg/l
Arsenic: 0.55 micrograms/l
I suspect that your nitrate figure is close to zero but you may prove me wrong.
JPC
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I suspect that chlorine is used at the same levels it is here, it just depends on the specific water treatment works and supply network feeding the property in question. Chlorine would not be effective at low levels. Equally the list of treatment methods won’t all be used everywhere, it depends on the trade meant plant in question etc. Some will be older plants some newer and the age of the plants will dictate what technology is used dependant on what was the most suitable at the time of installation and the raw water source e.g. Membrane plants are very effective but very costly and useful when raw water TDS is low.
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Nitrate levels are indeed negligible.
As to the chlorine question, been on the Norwegian Aquarium forums and on the water company website again and basically they use UV filtration as standard, but have the ability to use chlorine but only when absolutely necessary, which is rarely if ever. The water source is from the mountain freshwater lakes which are continuously replenished and delicious!
So most people here, including myself, connect a garden hose from the kitchen sink, adjust the temperature to what you need, then fill directly into the aquarium.
To siphon the water out I use a gravel vacc connected to a garden hose, which goes out the window into the drain in the garden, so no buckets used and takes me about half an hour to do a 30% water change on the 325l tank.
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Wow, sounds great. :afro
When I was in Cambridge the nitrate were 40ppm from the tap. :o
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Hi,
here is the latest image of the tank.
Have added 7 Zebra Loaches, they are really active and fun and caused quite a stir when added.
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anotehr image as that came in cropped, for some reason it doesnt want to uplaod the .jpg files so have to print as pdf...
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Great tank - thanks for sharing the photos. :cheers:
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Your tank looks amazing @fjord_fisk :afro
We love seeing pics of tanks ;D
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Loving your tank - keep up the good work!!