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Hello...From Mike.

Author Topic: Hello...From Mike.  (Read 1572 times)

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Offline Dangerzone1976

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Hello...From Mike.
« on: August 24, 2018, 08:38:02 PM »
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Hi all,

I have set-up a 120 Litre Juwel Lido tank. I have had it set-up for a week now, just doing the cycle process.

I have yet to decide what fish to stock in it, keep changing my mind Haha.

Any suggestions welcome.

Cheers Mike.

Offline Sue

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2018, 09:36:51 PM »
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Hi Mike, welcome to the forum  :wave:

Since you are cycling yet you do have a while to finalise your wish list.
The first thing to do is look on your water company's website to find the hardness of your tap water. Ignore any vague words and look for numbers and the units. They could use any of half a dozen different units, while fish keeping uses just 2 of them so you may need to convert the numbers.

Once you have your hardness, you will know if you need to look at soft water fish or hard water fish. While it is possible to change the hardness of the water it is far easier to go with fish that like your water.

The Lido tank is a tall, narrow tank, almost a cube. You will need to avoid fast swimming fish, and choose fish that like to pootle around. Fast swimming fish need a long tank.


During cycling, take a trip to all your nearby shops and look at fish. Make a note of the ones that catch your eye, with the Latin name if they give them, but do not allow your self to be persuaded by the shop workers to get fish!! If you tell them you are doing a cycle they'll look at you as if you are mad and will try to sell you a miracle product that will instantly cycle the tank.  ;D None of these products instantly cycle a tank ready for a full load of fish.
When you get home, sit down with your list and post them on here, or look them up on http://www.seriouslyfish.com/knowledge-base/ You need to take note of the hardness the fish like - is it the same as your tap water - and the minimum tank size they need - is your tank suitable for them.


Then post your ideas here. We have members who will probably have experience with all the fish on the list.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2018, 10:38:33 PM »
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Hi Mike  :wave:

Although cycling a tank can take a while, it's a great time to look at fish and get a list of suitable stock.

We're looking forward to hearing about your water conditions and preferences for fish.  :)

Offline Dangerzone1976

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2018, 11:33:12 PM »
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Hi Sue, Littlefish,

Thanks for your advice, my water is hard in my area.

I have a list of fish in mind:

Harlequinn Rasboras.
Clown Pleco.
Dwarf Gourami.
Cory Panda.
Swordtail.
Guppys preferably Male.
Neon Tetra.
Siamese fighter fish.
Redtail black shark (might get to big for tank).

I can imagine all these fish will not go with one and each other.

Thanks Mike.

Offline Rustle

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2018, 06:32:11 AM »
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Hi Mike and welcome to the forum, I been keeping fish for a year now and have learn't so much from the members and mods on this forum they will advise you well  :)


Fish Community Creator Tanks - Assess Tankmate Suitability Tool
Cherry Barb (6) - Neon Tetra (7) - Harlequin Rasbora (11) - Honey Gourami (2) - Guppy (male) (3) - Otocinclus (5) - Japonica Shrimp (8) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Matt

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2018, 07:38:04 AM »
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Welcome @Dangerzone1976:wave:

From your list I would rule out the pleco, swordtail, shark (all get too big) and betta (you can only have one Betta and no other fish).

If you take a look on the seriously fish website you can check out the detail in terms of compatibility of the others but I suspect they will all be ok.

It's so exciting choosing new fish etc.! Do you have any plans for how you want the tank to look / aquascaping?

Offline Sue

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2018, 09:22:34 AM »
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How hard is hard?

Unfortunately, most of the fish on your list are soft water fish. Depending just how hard, some soft water fish may be able to cope.
Guppies and swordtails are hard water fish but as Matt says, swordtails get too big for this tank. Platies are similar but smaller - in fact most swordtails are actually swordtail platy crosses.
I would also be wary about cories in this tank. The footprint is only big enough for the smaller species like the pandas  you mention, but they may have trouble with the height of the tank. Cories need to gulp air at the surface and small cories may have trouble swimming to the surface in a tall tank.

Red tail black sharks, besides needing a 120 cm long tank, can be territorial, aggressive fish.

Dwarf gouramis are iffy fish. Most of the specimens imported from the far east are already infected with an incurable disease by the time they reach the shops. If you could find some bred locally, they should be OK otherwise I would avoid this species.


Sorry, Matt and I have just demolished your list  :-\


We do have members with hard water, @Littlefish is one, and they will be able to suggest other hard water fish.



For people who don't know the Lido tank, it has a 61 x 41 cm footprint with a height of 58 cm. Almost a 60 cm cube. It is a 120 litre tank with a swimming length of most 60 litre tanks.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2018, 12:33:11 PM »
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My water is 17dH.
All is not lost, have a read of this...
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwhardness.htm

If you are quite set on fish from your list, I'll say that I've had a fighter with a group of panda cory in a tank. The only reason I don't at the moment is because the fighter is poorly and in a hospital tank, but I've not had any problems with that combination of fish, and it does make for a nice combination of colour and movement.

Another alternative is a shoal of white cloud mountain minnows in a planted tank. Their colours come up really well.

If you are looking for something adorably cute that will rush to the front of the tank to greet you, and beg for food, I'd suggest a small group of dwarf puffers.
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/carinotetraodon-travancoricus/

Hard water makes for a very stable water parameters, which is a massive bonus. Ok, you may not be able to keep all the fish you've fallen for so far, but there are lots of fish that are suitable. The ones Ive mentioned should be fine with the size of your tank as well. :)

Offline TopCookie

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2018, 11:41:06 AM »
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Greetings Mike...  and welcome to the forum...  :)

Offline Dangerzone1976

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2018, 12:26:52 PM »
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Hi all,

Thanks so far for advice...

About hardness of water:

Hardness Clarke: 20.23.  Residual Chlorine-Total: 0.63.
Aluminium <11.5.           Residual Chlorine Free: 0.59.
Calcium 77.9.

Hope this helps.

As for decoration, I have a mix of slate, rocks, plants, driftwood and bog wood and a centre piece ornament.

It's going to be a good think about what fish.

Once thanks for your input.

Cheers Mike.

Offline Fishbeard

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2018, 02:00:57 PM »
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Hi Mike,

Welcome to the forums!

The bit there that's of interest is the Hardness Clarke (sometimes also called "English" hardness). There are plenty of online converters for hardness, and this equates to 16.3dH (also called "German" hardness) and 229ppm.

Fish profiles on here or Seriously Fish will use either the dH or the ppm measurement, and will give a range. You're in the right range for a lot of livebearers - guppies, mollies, swordtails - but as I have very soft water, I'll let someone on here with more experience of hard water make some recommendations!

Offline Dangerzone1976

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2018, 02:28:31 PM »
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Hi again,

I have come up with a combination, hopefully they are ok.

Combo 1:

Platy.       
Panda Corydora.
Siamese Fighter.
Harlequin Rasbora.

Combo 2:

Guppy.
Panda Corydora.
Harlequin Rasbora.
Platy.
Peacock Gudgeoan

Cheers Mike.

Offline Sue

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2018, 02:34:09 PM »
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The two units used n fish keeping are dH or oH(German degrees) and ppm. Your hardness in deg Clarke converts to:
16.2 dH/oH
289 ppm

This is pretty hard, and is too hard for soft water fish I'm afraid.

If you look up the fish on your list on http://www.seriouslyfish.com/knowledge-base/ you'll find most of them need water softer than yours.
The main fish you'll have problems with are bottom dwellers. Cories, loaches and plecs all seem to be soft water fish  :-\



Since this tank is tall with a small footprint for the volume, you need to think about smallish fish. This is why I said earlier that it is not long enough for swordtails, but that platies would be a good substitute.
Another small, pretty fish (a good substitute for neon tetras) is endlers livebearers. Males come in various colours bright colours and patterns. In my opinion they are hardier than the closely related guppies.
With livebearers, if you have both sexes you would need at least 2 females for every male, and you'd end up with so many fry the tank would be over stocked in next to no time. This is because males have one track minds and they harass females constantly. With more females than males, each female gets time off while the males chase other females. The way round too many fry is to keep only males or only females, although any female that has been in a tank with a male longer than about 10 seconds will be carrying sperm and can have a batch of fry every month for about 6 months.



For hard water:
Platies (instead of swordtails)
Endlers (instead of guppies, which have health issues due to inbreeding)
Forktail blue eyes, Pseudomugil furcatus http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/pseudomugil-furcatus/
X ray tetra http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/pristella-maxillaris/
Emerald rasbora http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/celestichthys-erythromicron/

I can't find any information on Seriously Fish for clown plecs but this article does suggest it should be fine.http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/HardWatrCommTkStkMonks.htm
More info on the plec https://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=734 This gives the hardness as 3000mu but I have no idea what the unit mu is, and google can't find it either.

Offline Sue

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2018, 02:44:50 PM »
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You replied while I was typing.


Bearing in mind your hardness of 16.2 dH/289 ppm -



Combo 1:

Platy.       
Panda Corydora.
Siamese Fighter.
Harlequin Rasbora.

Platies- fine
Panda cory - water is too hard. Maximum 12 dH/ 214 ppm
Siamese fighter - usually called betta to stop people using them for fighting. Water too hard, and it should not be kept with other fish.
Harlequin rasbora - water too hard. Maximum 12dH/214 ppm


Bettas are not community fish. They should be kept as the only fish in a tank.




Combo 2:

Guppy.
Panda Corydora.
Harlequin Rasbora.
Platy.
Peacock Gudgeoan

Guppy - fine*
Panda cory - see above
Harlequins - see above
Platy fine
Peacock gudgeon - water is too hard. Maximum 10 dH/180 ppm


* Guppies have been very inbred and breeders in the far east use any fish to breed with no matter how healthy (or unhealthy) As a result, guppies are weak fish that quite often just die.



Finding the right combination of fish is not an easy task, but it can be done!




If you look at my signature you'll see I have some of the fish you list - and Espe's rasboras are closely related to harlequins. I have soft water which is why I can keep those fish.

Offline Lynne W

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2018, 03:58:39 PM »
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Hiya Mike, welcome, I'm a newbie too, and I take all the advice I can get from these guys, they're fairly awesome at giving spot on advice. You've picked a good forum.

Fish Community Creator Tanks - Assess Tankmate Suitability Tool
Pearl Gourami (1) - Rummy Nose Tetra (14) - Harlequin Rasbora (15) - Panda Cory (13) - Fiveband Barb (8) - Pearl Gourami (3) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Dangerzone1976

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2018, 10:57:13 AM »
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Hi,

Thank's Sue for your time, help and advice, ill get there in the end haha.

Much appreciated everyone else.

it's back to the drawing board. 

Offline Dangerzone1976

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2018, 12:44:19 PM »
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Hi all,

I'm in my 3 week cycle. Just done a PH test: 7.6.  Ammonia: 0.  Nitrite N02: 0.

Hopefully looking good so far.


Offline Littlefish

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2018, 02:02:44 PM »
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Good to hear things are going well.  :)

Offline Dangerzone1976

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2018, 03:29:28 PM »
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Hi,

Advice on the list, best mix and match:

X-Ray tetra.
White cloud minnows.
Endler Guppy.
Emerald rasbora.

Bronze Cory, done a bit if research and they can go in hardwater.

Cheers.

Offline Sue

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2018, 05:12:02 PM »
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White clouds are temperate fish which means they prefer cooler water than the other fish on the list, which is a pity because their hardness range matches yours.

With 120 litres, you could always have bigger shoals of the tetras, emerald rasboras and cories and a bigger group of endlers. I started out like most people with the minimum numbers of lots of species, but I now have just 2 shoaling fish in 180 litres - but 15 of each.

Offline Dangerzone1976

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2018, 04:30:57 PM »
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Hi,

Went to Waterworld today... Fish shopping.

Noticed a Siamese Fighting fish with Guppies and no issues, the guy in shop stated it does depend on the fish.

I ended up getting 3 Male Guppies and the Siamese. Siamese at top end for my water, so far so good.

I'll add a few more in a couple of week.

Another 3 Guppies or 5 Emerald Rasboras,
Not too sure yet.

Done all my testing previous and came back spot on

😁

Offline Sue

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2018, 04:42:49 PM »
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Siamese fighting fish - now called bettas to stop people using them for fighting - are not community fish. They are much better kept in a tank by themselves.
And I would ignore anything said by someone who works in a fish shop, they usually make up any rubbish to get a sale.


Watch the tank carefully while the betta is in there. He could snap one day and go on a killing spree. This is quite common. Or the other fish could decide to pick on him.





Personally I would get a tank of around 25 litres and move the betta into that once it is cycled or heavily planted. I have always kept my bettas in this sized tank with just a snail for company. At the very least, have a fry net and something to cover it in the cupboard which you can use to separate the betta should things start to go wrong. This will give you breathing space while you sort out a permanent solution.

Offline Dangerzone1976

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2018, 02:45:14 PM »
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Hi,

The Siamese has been good so far, just does his own thing.

One of the Guppies is a little aggressive, he sometimes goes after the other two if they come near him or when he goes near them.

Offline Dangerzone1976

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2018, 01:56:20 PM »
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Hello...

Just an update, tank going well, ive added 3 more Male guppies and 4 Bronze corys.

Guppies have settled a bit now.

Thanks Mike.

Offline Matt

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2018, 05:38:46 PM »
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Glad to hear it  :D

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2018, 06:15:11 PM »
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Thanks for the update - good to hear that everyone has settled, and are getting along.  :)

Offline Ian1962

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2018, 07:10:37 AM »
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The small debate going on here with the Betta fish. Also known as Siamese fighting fish. It may well attack other fish in the tank, especially the Guppy’s as they have large colourful tails, which he may see as a threatening or displaying gesture. Equally the Siamese fish has long flowing fins which the other fish in the tank, may find to tempting to nibble on. This could cause distress and possible infection to the siamese fish. Please keep a close watch out for this happening, as we are all responsible for the fish, we keep in our tanks. I dont mean to put such a downer on things, and wish you well and many hours of happy fish keeping.
      :fishy1:

Offline Dangerzone1976

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2018, 03:14:26 PM »
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Hi,

One of the guppies I got two weeks ago was not active or even swimming, basically hiding away on the slate for a couple of hours and in cover, the other guppies were going towards it but still no movement.

I moved the guppy out of the tank into in plastic container with the water from the tank just to monitor, for about 15 minutes but still no movement.

I placed it back in the tank but wasn't swimming and just going on it's side, I took it back out of the tank and let it R.I.P.

The other fish are fine, can't see any issues and very active aswell.

Thanks Mike.

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Re: Hello...From Mike.
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2018, 06:08:20 AM »
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Sorry to hear this  :(

We normally advice doing a few water tests in such a scenario just to check water conditions but very often this can be "one of those things" as well. Fish are masters at looking well until it is too late - it is a defence mechanism.

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