Author Topic: Wondering (Read 10445 times) 20 replies

Mervyn · « **on:** November 21, 2012, 02:28:33 PM »

Hi,
I am just wondering!!! For the future!! I have a 180 Litre which has an internal 600L filter.

Now in the future if I added say a 1000 lph and had them both running,would that enable me to increase the stocking level to any great degree??

Sue · « **Reply #1 on:** November 21, 2012, 03:26:30 PM »

There are two opposing factors with adding a second filter. It would give you more media and a greater turnover, but you'd lose tank volume. There does reach a point where adding more media is no help when you have more than enough for the bacteria to occupy. There will only ever be as many bacteria as are needed to deal with the ammonia produced by the fish in there. All you'd end up doing with a huge amount of media is having unoccupied media

Alternatively, you could get an external filter which give you more scope. You wouldn't need to cycle it if you moved all your current media into it, chopping sponges up to make them fit

Mervyn · « **Reply #2 on:** November 21, 2012, 03:34:10 PM »

Hi Sue,
Yes was thinking about having one external filter. On another subject has anyone had any experience of using seachem matrix bio filter media?? I only ask as the nitrates from my tap are 40ppm.

I do filter the water through a resin filter and have a Juwel Nitrate filter media and am not sure how effective the Juwel one is.

Sue · « **Reply #3 on:** November 21, 2012, 04:46:51 PM »

That green Juwel sponge is widely regarded not to work. Before I removed the filter from my rio, I didn't notice any effect. But as my tap nitrate is between the 0 and 5ppm colours and it doesn't go up much between water changes, that isn't much nitrate to give a defnite answer yes or no. Treat it as a blue sponge.

I've not used that seachem media you mention. It is a biomedium rather than a chemical one (I've just checked their site) that claims to house both the bacteria that convert ammonia, via nitrite, into nitrate, and also the bacteria that remove nitrate. The only problem with that as far as my understanding goes is, yes fine for the ammonia and nitrite eaters as they need a good supply of oxygen. But the nitrate removing bacteria are anaerobic, and are damaged by the presence of oxygen, so how they would grow in the oxygen rich water flowing through a filter I'm not sure.

What fish do you plan to have in your tank? With a tap nitrate of 40, your aim should be to keep it from getting above 60 in the tank; that's just before a water change. There are only a few fish that would suffer from a nitrate of 60ppm.

Mervyn · « **Reply #4 on:** November 21, 2012, 05:34:08 PM »

Hi Sue, Thanks for that...I am hoping to stock Lemon Tetra,Dwarf Rainbow and some Cherry Barbs....I have not got much further than that. Sorry maybe a couple of Gourami.

Don · « **Reply #5 on:** November 21, 2012, 06:49:16 PM »

You could also possibly add an external and leave the internal in place. You would have to be careful with the flow and avoid it churning to much. You could leave the internal for flow and use the spray bar of the external. As sue said and external would give you more scope for stocking. You could leave all the media in the internal as it will be fine for your stocking level and this will in turn add bacteria to the external.

Sue · « **Reply #6 on:** November 21, 2012, 07:25:16 PM »

The fish you name are not among the nitrate sensitive species. When you've decided what else you want, ask before buying

Mervyn · « **Reply #7 on:** November 22, 2012, 04:51:10 AM »

Hi all,
Thanks for your help....I now have 10 Lemon Tetra in the Tank since last night.

Initially they stayed in a tight shoal and there was quite a bit of bickering amongst them

Sorting the pecking order out?

This morning they are very spread out and at the moment I can only see 9 fish and have looked everywhere without disturbing the rest of them. I certainly cannot see it but it may still be hiding. At the moment there is a shoal of 8 and one hanging back on its own.

I got them at 5pm last night and when should I give them their first feed?

Sue · « **Reply #8 on:** November 22, 2012, 09:20:31 AM »

That sounds like typical behaviour for new fish. Shoaling fish swim together when they are threatened. Being caught in a net, put into a bag, then put into a tank that looks different with slightly different water and less of them is threatening to a fish. They respond by schooling.
I got 7 Danio tinwini on Saturday, I think I have 4 males, 3 females. One of the females has taken over a hollow plastic root ornament and chases the other danios out. Shoaling fish often 'do their own thing'. Shoaling is not the same as schooling

The only way to find number 10 would be to completely empty the tank, which is not a good idea as it would stress the fish even more. It is OK to very gently lift up ornaments or shake plants but not so much that you scare the fish. Check inside the filter too. With the Juwel one, it is not unkown for small fish to squeeze though the tiny gap between the casing and the outlet tube. And check the floor at the back of the tank as it is possible for them to jump out through those cut-outs at the back. I've never had a fish get out through them, but I have had fish jump out of other tanks.

Give them their first feed today, but only a small amount at first. Wait till the light has been on long enough for them to wake up. Watch them after the food goes in (but I can't think of anyone who wouldn't with new fish

) and see if they eat it. New fish quite commonly do not eat when you first get them. It could be something as simple as using a food different from what the shop fed so they don't realise it is food. Clean up any uneaten food after a few hours, and persevere. It won't take them many days to start eating.
If you have flake food and the flakes are quite big compared to the size of the fish, crush them up a bit before dropping them in the tank.

Mervyn · « **Reply #9 on:** November 22, 2012, 09:29:16 AM »

Hi Sue,
Thanks for that....the tenth fish appeared just recently. I have no idea where it was unless it was in the coconut cave that is in the tank. I did look all over without disturbing anything. Under the bogwood in amongst the plants etc but I am blowed if I could see it.

I did try a bit of food but they totally ignored it

One other thing. It says on the profile that they use all of the tank top,middle etc but they, at the moment, are settling more to the bottom than anywhere else, and closely bunched together. I expect it is early days and after several days of settling in, I hope that they will move about a bit more,and spend time in all depths of the tank.

Sue · « **Reply #10 on:** November 22, 2012, 10:44:55 AM »

You will find they start to behave more naturally over the next few days. They are quite stressed at the moment so will be behaving defensively rather than naturally. They have just gone from a tank with a lot of lemon tetras (I assume!) to one with 10. Their insitincts are telling them that something has just eaten all the others so they'd better be on the look out. Once they realise they aren't about to be eaten they'll start swimming around more and separately.
Just to warn you, some people are puzzled by their fish not swimming together once they've settled. That is because shoaling fish are not necessarily schooling fish. Shoaling fish are those species that live in huge numbers in the wild and need the company of their own species to feel safe. Schooling fish are shoaling fish that like to swim in tight formation. There aren't many schooling fish in the aquarium trade.

I find that fish rarely behave exactly as they are supposed to. My mid dwelling green neon tetras feed off the bottom, something they aren't supposed to do. One of my dwarf chain loaches has been known to take flake from the surface, swimming upside down to do it.

Mervyn · « **Reply #11 on:** November 22, 2012, 11:39:31 AM »

Thanks Sue,
They are at the moment spread a little bit but still bickering.

I assume that is to do with pecking order?

Sue · « **Reply #12 on:** November 22, 2012, 02:45:22 PM »

That's right. A lot of shoaling fish do it. If you ever decide to increase the shoal, they'll do it again.

Sue · « **Reply #13 on:** November 22, 2012, 02:47:34 PM »

Just curious - are you getting any more fish within a few days? If you don't the bacteria will die off till you have just enough to support the lemon tetras, then you'll have to add new fish slowly as for fish-in cycling.

Mervyn · « **Reply #14 on:** November 22, 2012, 04:06:00 PM »

Hi Sue,
I have just come home with 6 silver tip tetras.....do you suggest buying more at the weekend?? I am just trying not to overload the ecosystem but the wife has her eye on some platies!!

Wonderful...!!! they are shoaling with the Lemon Tetra

Sue · « **Reply #15 on:** November 22, 2012, 04:39:50 PM »

Get your platties

Two tetra shoals and some platies won't overload things if the cycle was done properly.

Just to check - you do know about sex ratios for platies - well all common livebearers? You need at least two females for every male. Male livebearers constantly chase females so you need enough females to give each one time off while the males chase another. Make sure you know how to sex them before going shopping, you'll be surprised how many people report that shop workers don't know the difference. One advantage with platies over endlers, for example, is that the females are as colourful as the males.

You are seeing more defense mechanisms with the tetras; if you are afraid, shoal with whatever other fish you can find. They might go their separate ways once they've settled or they might stick together permanently.

Mervyn · « **Reply #16 on:** November 22, 2012, 05:02:57 PM »

Hi Sue,
I did know about the ratio although I have to read up on how to sex them.

Would it be ok to get all Males? and would the bacteria last till Saturday?

I could take a stroll over the road tomorrow but really need to be here to accept parcel deliveries....would not matter normally as they are for one of my sons and my grandson BUT I think they are my chrissie present.

But if I need to get the fish tomorrow I will.

ColinB · « **Reply #17 on:** November 22, 2012, 06:02:11 PM »

Oops - I haven't introduced myself yet, I was going to do that when I came back off holiday at the end of next week, but this is something I can help with.....

... a tank with all male platies will get on well at first until they hit sexual maturity, then they start fighting. I've got one of mine in the 'naughty tank' at the mo' (actually my hospital/quarenteen tank) 'cos he became such a vicious bully to the others. You'd be better off with all females.

Mervyn · « **Reply #18 on:** November 22, 2012, 06:16:56 PM »

Quote from: ColinB on November 22, 2012, 06:02:11 PM

Oops - I haven't introduced myself yet, I was going to do that when I came back off holiday at the end of next week, but this is something I can help with.....

... a tank with all male platies will get on well at first until they hit sexual maturity, then they start fighting. I've got one of mine in the 'naughty tank' at the mo' (actually my hospital/quarenteen tank) 'cos he became such a vicious bully to the others. You'd be better off with all females.

Hi, Welcome and thanks for the info.

Sue · « **Reply #19 on:** November 22, 2012, 07:02:02 PM »

With an all female group of platies, you won't get aggression as Colin mentioned, but if they've ever been in a tank with a male, they'll be carrying sperm. Female livebearers can store enough to fertilise eggs for up to six batches of fry at montly intervals. This shouldn't be a problem especially if you were considering mixed sexes originally, just you need to be aware that not having a male in the tank doesn't mean there won't be fry

The simplest thing to do about fry is nothing. Most will get eaten though if there are plenty plants, some will make it. This solves the problem about what on earth to do with them all if you make an effort to save them.

Sunday will be OK but no longer. When you add more fish after that, only get in one go the amount of fish equal to a third of what you already have. The filter should cope with that kind of increase in population.

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