What Fish To Get?

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Offline jesnon

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Re: What fish to get?
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2012, 04:16:20 PM »
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Thanks again for your helpful replies! I think I would have been massicely confused without this forum and its members!

Ahh if it's just the base that's meant that's fine! I was alwats planning to use that as it's one of the things that made it appeal to my partner and I! I'll make sure to be aware and get something sturdy :-)

Ahh as long as there's no difference to the fish I'll get some I take a fancy to :-) once it's all up and running I'll post a photo!

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Endler's Livebearer (8) - Panda Cory (4) - Cherry Barb (3) - Galaxy Rasbora (6) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline maz1

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Re: What fish to get?
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2012, 12:28:48 PM »
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hi my wife has a edge and i have put in there 2 bristlenose plecs/3cooli loaches/4rumy nose tetras/1fighter/4 golden tetras and its been running over six months with no troubles and i do a 25% water change weekly ok

Offline Sue

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Re: What fish to get?
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2012, 12:45:16 PM »
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Maz, I hate to tell you this but that Edge is extremely overstocked. The bristlenoses alone put the tank over maximum stocking.

Bristlenose plec - needs a tank at least 80cm long; they grow to 15cm
Kuhli loaches need a tank at least 60cm long. And sand to bury themselves in
Rummy nose tetras need a 75cm long tank
Siamese fighter do better alone, and a lot of them struggle to find the small bit of surface.
Golden tetras - you might just get away with these on their own


I've entered all these fish in the new community creator, substituting silver tip tetras for golden tetras and it comes out at a stocking level of 335% of what the tank can hold, that is over three times the number of fish that should be in there. And don't forget that the CC is reputed to be over-generous.


Of all the fish in that tank, only the siamese fighting fish is suitable. Since he's survived this long, he is one of the few that can cope with the Edge's lack of surface.

Offline jesnon

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Re: What fish to get?
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2013, 11:41:21 PM »
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I realise this thread is basically a 'please tell me everything about tropical fish-keeping ever' thread now ha - sorry everyone!

I've got somewhere to put my aquarium now, and should be setting it up within the next week or so when my boyfriend's back from holiday (I'm too scared to do it myself!!).

I just wanted to ask something about the 10% weekly water changes... Basically I'm a little confused about the whole process! I realise this is quite a stupid question but I'm just trying to get my head around the practicalities of it all! So you siphon out around 10% of the tank water, draw more tap water and treat it so it's safe for fish etc... but in the leaflet that came with my tank it says that the water should be the same temperature as the tank... How is that possible if the water in the tank is heated? :S

I also had a similarly confused moment with adding fish. In my leaflet it tells you to leave the fish floating in their little bags in the tank for a while so that the water reaches the same temperature. It says you can then use a net to fish them out and put them into tank properly, or you can turn the bag and allow them to swim out on their own accord. But then it says you shouldn't add the water from the bag to your aquarium. I was thinking the latter method of letting them swim out seemed to make the most sense rather than scooping them out and stressing the fish out, but how is this possible without getting the bag water in your tank!?

I know I don't need to worry about this for a while since my tank is yet to be even set up, I was just trying to work it all out!

Also I've got some of that 'speeding up cycle' stuff that you mentioned Sue that came with the tank, I'm planning on trying it since it's there - but in that case when would I add it if I'm also adding ammonia? It has instructions for day 1, day 2 and day 3 IIRC, but I didn't know if it I should adjust something if I'm using ammonia too!

Another question relating to the filters.... How often does the media actually need to be changed? I saw a previous post that said they normally say more often than is actually necessary so I didn't want to be caught of by this! 

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Endler's Livebearer (8) - Panda Cory (4) - Cherry Barb (3) - Galaxy Rasbora (6) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline ColinB

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Re: What fish to get?
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2013, 07:38:06 AM »
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I'll try and answer a few points:

I just wanted to ask something about the 10% weekly water changes... Basically I'm a little confused about the whole process! I realise this is quite a stupid question but I'm just trying to get my head around the practicalities of it all! So you siphon out around 10% of the tank water, draw more tap water and treat it so it's safe for fish etc... but in the leaflet that came with my tank it says that the water should be the same temperature as the tank... How is that possible if the water in the tank is heated? :S

If you mix up some water the previous day and leave it to 'age' overnight then it will be about room temp the next day. If you're doing a water change of 10% then the change in tank temp when this is added will be very small. If you want to, you could take a (very clean) jug full of your aged water and put it in the microwave to heat it up (not boil), then add it back to your water. Do this until the required temp is reached.

I also had a similarly confused moment with adding fish. In my leaflet it tells you to leave the fish floating in their little bags in the tank for a while so that the water reaches the same temperature. It says you can then use a net to fish them out and put them into tank properly, or you can turn the bag and allow them to swim out on their own accord. But then it says you shouldn't add the water from the bag to your aquarium. I was thinking the latter method of letting them swim out seemed to make the most sense rather than scooping them out and stressing the fish out, but how is this possible without getting the bag water in your tank!?

Read this article from the 'information' section of ThinkFish:

http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/article/acclimatising-and-introducing-fish-to-your-aquarium.html

Hope this helps.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Panda Cory (7) - Honey Gourami (3) - Ember Tetra (9) - Lemon Tetra (4) - Cherry Barb (1) - Otocinclus (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: What fish to get?
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2013, 09:13:22 AM »
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Don't worry Jesnon, we all had to start once  ;D


The weekly water changes - 10% is a bit small unless the tank is understocked. I do 25% a week. Siphon out the water you want, and when there are fish in the tank, clean the gravel at the same time by pushing the wide end of the tube into the gravel. That'll suck up the fish poo and any uneaten food that gets stuck in the gravel. Push it in the gravel, wait till all the bits stop coming out them move along to the next bit. The first few times you do it, you'll not get round all the gravel before you've taken out too much water. Don't worry, like lots of things it gets easier with practice. Just do the next bit of gravel at the next water change. It might be an idea to practice with a bucket of water  :)
Warming the water - you can do as Colin suggests or you can warm the water. How you do this depends on how your hot water is made. If you have a combi boiler, just add hot tapwater to the bucket to get it warm. If, like me, you have a hot water tank it can be iffy using the hot tap (you never know what is lurking in the cold water header tank in the attic) so I add boiling water from a kettle to get the bucket warm.
The temp of the new water doesn't have to be exact, feeling the old water and comparing the new with your hand is close enough.
With a small tank like yours, the way to fill up is with a bucket. Add the dechlorinator, then run water into the bucket - either hot and cold or cold and water from the kettle. Then pour slowly into the tank. With the Edge having a small hole in the top you might find it easier if you use a jug to scoop water out of the bucket and into the tank. I have a very cheap plastic jug for my water changes as I have been known to miss the tank when using just the bucket  :-[

Putting fish in the tank can be made to sound very complicated. Yes, float the bag to get the water to the same temperature as the tank, but don't undo the bag yet. Yes, net the fish out so you don't add very much shop water - the idea is that it stops you adding too many bugs that could be in the shop tank, though you always add some shop water even this way. But be very careful not to squash the fish. I usually add tank water to the bag every 15 mins for an hour, but a lot of people now say that's unnecessary if the water (pH, hardness etc) are the same in the shop and your tank.
When you get into fishkeeping and have loads of tanks and you get fish by mail order because your local shops don't sell the fish you want, then you have to use more complicated methods to acclimate fish, but starting off you'll be fine following the method in Colin's link.


The bacterial starter - what exactly is it? Some of them do have ammonia in them, if you tell us what you have I can try and find out what yours contains. Unless it is something really obscure, add the ammonia then add the starter as the bottle says.



The filter. I've looked at the manual on Hagen's website and that says you have three parts to the media: a bag of biomax (ceramic noodles); a sponge; and carbon/clean&clear.
The biomax is the main home for the bacteria. The sponge is the mechanical medium, that means it catches the bits in the water. But it will also house a lot of your bacteria. They only need replacing when the biomax starts to crumble and the sponge falls apart or won't go back to shape after washing. They'll last for years. Just wash them. But don't use tapwater to wash them or the chlorine will kill the bacteria. When you do a water change, use the water you take out. Squeeze the sponge gently to get the muck off and swish the bag of biomax. The sponge will never go back to its brand new look, don't try to make it  :) .

The carbon/clean&clear - I'm not sure what exactly clean&clear is, but the manual says that it is a chemical medium like carbon. Carbon does need to be changed regularly if you use it. It is a hangover from years gone by and isn't needed with modern filtration. I haven't used it for years, not since I discovered I don't need it. The reasoning gets a bit long, I won't go into it here, but you have a choice with this medium. You can replace it now, before you get started, either with more sponge or more biomax. Or you can use it and replace it every couple of weeks. Or you can use it but don't change it.
Although it is meant to 'remove impurities' from the water it also makes a home for the bacteria, just not quite as good as sponge or ceramic media. Because of the way it works, carbon gets full afer a week or so and stops working as a chemical medium. If you want to, you can change it every couple of weeks though that would start getting expensive. You could just leave it there, but if you ever have sick fish you would need to medicate. Although carbon that's been there for months or years would be full, there is a risk that the med could push the other stuff off the carbon and stick itself - and medication stuck to carbon doesn't cure fish. You could take it out for the duration of the treatment, but it would have a lot of bacteria by this time, and you wouldn't want to remove them when you had sick fish.
The pic in the manual suggests the carbon/clean&clear is quite thin. If you decide to replace it, you'd need a thin sponge or maybe another bag of noodles.

Sorry, I'm not being very helpful here, telling you that you have to decide.
If this was my tank, I'd replace the carbon with sponge, any make so long as it's the right thickness. Now is the time for that, before you start to grow your bacteria.
But if you'd rather leave the filter as the manufacturers say, use the carbon/clean&clear but don't change it. Ever. Untill it starts to fall apart.


Offline jesnon

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Re: What fish to get?
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2013, 02:30:11 PM »
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Thanks for the advice and links Colin!

I'm not sure where I got the 10% from ha, it might have been in the tank leaflet or I could well have invented it haha.

Yeah I think practising with a bucket of water sounds like a good idea – it sounds like it’s all a bit fiddling and I’m not particularly good with things like that! Whilst the tank is empty how often would it need cleaning? Or is it just worth doing and practising with gravel before the fish are there so it’s easier when I finally add fish?

I think because we live in a new build it’s a combi boiler so hot water should be fine in theory! And yes a jug definitely sounds like a good idea to me – I’m awfully clumsy so I imagine using just the bucket would be asking for trouble!!

That does sound sensible – I guess I’ll need to add a net to my shopping list too ha! I guess fish are probably used to being in nets having been raised in aquariums so it’s not too stressful!

I’ve just had a quick look and I’ve got a small bottle of Nutrafin aqua plus for treating the tap water, and ‘Nutrafin Cycle’ (it doesn’t have a list of ingredients unfortunately so I’m not sure exactly what it is!). The aquarium also came with a pack of ‘Fluval Edge Algae Clear’ – it supposedly absorbs phosphates, nitrates and nitrites… should I start using this as soon as I set the tank up or save it for if I have algae issues? It says it needs renewing every 6 – 8 weeks else it could start adding phosphates etc back into the water. (This might be the carbon filter thing you were talking about that I’ve just got confused with!)

Oh wow if they last years that’s good! I was reading the manual and from what I remember it wants you to replace them every month or something ridiculous – I was starting to think how expensive it was going to end up being!

Oh wow that’s complicated! Hmm would it make sense to keep it in there until the specified time it would need replacing and then to use a sponge, or would that be more complicated than it’s worth and be removing some of the good bacteria the tank needs? Based on what you’ve said it sounds like it’s a bit unnecessary so it might just be easier to use another sponge to start with before the tanks all set up! Very confusing! 

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Endler's Livebearer (8) - Panda Cory (4) - Cherry Barb (3) - Galaxy Rasbora (6) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline ColinB

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Re: What fish to get?
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2013, 03:12:16 PM »
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Glad to have helped.

Probably best to throw the ‘Fluval Edge Algae Clear’ in the bin. If you keep your tank properly then you won't have any algae so this will just mask any problems you have. You want the least ammount of chemicals possible in there - just Chlorine remover.

If you want to clean more gravel, but you've taken out enough water, carry on cleaning the gravel and then wait 5 mins or so for the water in the (aquarium use only) bucket to settle with all the 'stuff' at the bottom, then carefully scoop some of the water back in with your jug. You'll soon find a mark on the tank for the correct water change - mines at the 26oC mark on my stick-on LCD thermometer.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Panda Cory (7) - Honey Gourami (3) - Ember Tetra (9) - Lemon Tetra (4) - Cherry Barb (1) - Otocinclus (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: What fish to get?
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2013, 05:18:00 PM »
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Nutrafin Cycle is one of the brands that is usually slated as useless. Since you have some, use it as the instructions say as well as ammonia for the fishless cycle. Most of the people who have made comments about it say it did nothing to speed up their cycle but you never know, maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones.

The Nutrafin Aqua plus is the dechlorinator. It also remove any metals in your tapwater. When you run out, get whichever brand your local shop stocks. All you need is something to remove chlorine and metals.

There are pads for the filter that remove phosphate but mostly they are unnecessary. From a bit of googling, it looks like the carbon/clean&clear comes as sachets with carbon and something else inside. If they are different from the 'algae clear', I'm not sure what is in them besides carbon. Though it could be that the manual on their website is out of date, and your media is the newer version  :)
Without knowing eactly what is in the carbon/clean& clear sachets, I would be reluctant to use them. How thick are they? If they are very thin, buy a roll of filter wool and cut it up to the same shape as the sachets. Put it in the filter where the water flows though it last. It is very good for removing the fine particles you get in the water. It does need replacing regularly as it falls apart when you wash it, but the rolls are very cheap.

The thing that worried me about the 'algae clear' pads is that it says they remove nitrite. That might sound like a good thing at first, but there is a problem. If you use something that removes nitrite (or ammonia for that matter) there won't be enough left in the water to grow a full colony of bacteria. Then when the pad stops working if you don't change it in time, there will be nothing to remove the nitrite. No pad and not enough bacteria. You will be tied in replacing the pad before it stops working for ever.
So I wouldn't use them, like I wouldn't use anything that contains zeolite, an ammonia remover.

Offline jesnon

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Re: What fish to get?
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2013, 09:46:16 PM »
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Thanks for your replies again =)

I suspected it probably would be one of the useless ones, but I'll try it anyway since I've got it and see if anything happens ha!

The algae clear is very thin, I'm not sure about the carbon filter as I've not yet dared unpack the box completely (these bits were just at the top and looked less daunting ha). I think it sounds the filter for something else as you suggested and keeping the algae clear but not using it (if you don't think it's worth using at all I might try and sell it on or something, I don't think it's worth much but still!)

I've still not been to the garden centre to visit the aquatics place yet, but I also remembered we have a big Pets at Home near it, so I think I'll check both out and see if I can get everything I need and see what fish they have. I'm pretty sure I can get the shrimp you all suggested from Maidenhead Aquatics, I'm just not sure what fish they do as I was so obsessed with the B&W clownfish at the time I last went!

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Endler's Livebearer (8) - Panda Cory (4) - Cherry Barb (3) - Galaxy Rasbora (6) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: What fish to get?
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2013, 11:48:59 AM »
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My local MA usually has endlers, very often different coloured ones. Don't bother with females - bigger, plain grey and have loads of babies. Pets at home is a shop that people love to criticise. As each one is run by the manager the way he wants, they are very variable. I don't usually bother with the one near me as they have a very small selection of fish and never have what I want. Yours could well be different. Be prepared to be questioned about your tank.

Warning - they probably won't approve of fishless cycling  ;D

Offline jesnon

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Re: What fish to get?
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2013, 12:44:46 PM »
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Ha really? You would expect most fish-enthusiasts to approve of fishless cycling, though I guess it makes less money for them if your fish don't die!! (not that in-fish cycling always kills fish obviously, but it probably would if it was me or other inexperienced people doing it!)

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Endler's Livebearer (8) - Panda Cory (4) - Cherry Barb (3) - Galaxy Rasbora (6) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: What fish to get?
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2013, 01:54:35 PM »
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Very few shops 'approve' of fishless cycling. Some say it is outdated and the modern way is by using bottled bacteria (obviously they make more money by selling the bottle of bacteria). Others recommend fish-in cycling but very rarely mention the dangers. Some even say that no water changes should be done until the cycle has finished as the ammonia and nitrite levels need to be very high for the bacteria to grow. The answer to that one is that it doesn't matter if the bacteria are ankle deep or neck deep in food, if there's more than the current number can eat, they'll multiply.
To be fair to shops, most customers don't want to wait for a fishless cycle (our "I want it and I want it now" society), or wouldn't understand if the shop tried to explain it. So why bother trying to understand it themselves.


If you are intending a fishless cycle, fish shops don't sell ammonia. You have to get that from elsewhere. As it is an old fashioned cleaning product, you'll find it in those sections of places like Homebase. I got a bottle from my local indepandant diy shop. Failing that, amazon and ebay.

Offline jesnon

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Re: What fish to get?
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2013, 07:14:19 PM »
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I found a bottle on Amazon but I'm going to hold fire until my boyfriend is back and can drive us to a Homebase or similar as I think it'll be cheaper than the bottle I found online! We also need to do a bit of 'fish related shopping' for a few bits and pieces and I want to see how much things like the API testing kit will be in my local shops as well as online in case I need to pick up bits quicker than an online order can come in! I'm so excited to get started - I can't wait to set my tank up... I'm hoping my skills at decorating my tank are better than I'm imagining! I've seen some amazing looking tank designs in the fluval edge, hoping if I can make mine even half as good it'll be lovely!

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Endler's Livebearer (8) - Panda Cory (4) - Cherry Barb (3) - Galaxy Rasbora (6) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: What fish to get?
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2013, 07:23:21 PM »
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I drool over some of the pics I see. I wish I was better at design than I am.

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Re: What fish to get?
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2013, 07:40:31 PM »
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I found a bottle on Amazon but I'm going to hold fire until my boyfriend is back and can drive us to a Homebase or similar as I think it'll be cheaper than the bottle I found online!

If you do a Google Search in the Images section for "Homebase Value Household Ammonia" you will see the bottle. I bought mine back in March 2012 @ £2.49 for a 500ml bottle. Supermarkets will also have similar products.

Offline Helen

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Re: What fish to get?
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2013, 11:44:01 PM »
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I too look at photos of other tanks and wish I was better at tank design. It probably dosn't help looking through one of Amano's books. Comparing my planted tank to one (if not the) best aquascapers is always going to be slightly demoralising!

(Natalia's tanks also bring out the green eyes. Then she explained how much effort she puts into the design and I realised I don't deserve such a beautiful tank as she has!)

Offline Chucklett

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Re: What fish to get?
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2013, 09:54:23 AM »
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Funny how you're happy with your own tank until you start looking at other peoples! I think it happens to everyone  ;D Ive seen some breathtaking aquascapes. I stumbled upon some competition entries when I was browsing online......... wow.

Jesnon, can I just jump in here and recommend that whenever you buy stuff online (test kits, dechlorinator, medication, food, etc) then always ask the seller for the shelf-date before buying. Honest sellers will happily answer you so beware anyone that wont tell you. A lot of stuff is cheaper online, but you dont want to get caught out buying it cheap because its out of date and you didnt ask first.

(apologies if someone has already advised it - I havent read through the whole thread, I get blurry eyes & headaches if Im on the computer too long these days...... really should start wearing my glasses  :-\ )

Offline jesnon

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Re: What fish to get?
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2013, 11:04:07 AM »
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Ooh thanks for that Chucklett - I hadn't even thought about shelf life! And Tigz fish thanks for that - that's much cheaper than the bottle I happened upon online so I'll definitely keep my eyes out in supermarkets etc for one =) I'm also a little cautious I couldn't see the exact ingredients online but I can in person!

Ha yes there really are some fantastic tanks out there - I can just imagine how clumsy mine is going to look in comparison!


A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Endler's Livebearer (8) - Panda Cory (4) - Cherry Barb (3) - Galaxy Rasbora (6) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Natalia

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Re: What fish to get?
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2013, 07:38:46 PM »
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Hi all,
Jesnon – Fluval Edge is a little bit tricky simply because it does not have a wide opening for design as many other aquariums do. Having said that, there are absolutely fantastic designs of these little stylish tanks out there. (There is an absolutely fantastic design of a 23 litres Fluval Edge just posted on the other forum I am in – unfortunately, I cannot post a link...). Have a look here: #Invalid YouTube Link include https#
George Farmer is a brilliant designer and although the tank he is doing in this video is 46 litres you still can get some tips...
Helen – thanks for the compliment! I was going to say to you and to Chucklett that we all should actually post pictures of our tanks more (wishful thinking – never seem to have time for this!) :-[
Generally, the aesthetically pleasing rule is to use Golden ratio (or Golden section) is designs which fundamentally means to arrange things slightly off centre. I personally don’t have any problems with doing that as my initial education was the history of art and culture. (Had to write countless reviews of the paintings old and morden with the full analysis).  I am sure it is fundamentally much easier than quantum physics so everybody can do this... :)

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