Water Circulation

Author Topic: Water Circulation  (Read 5976 times) 20 replies

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Offline Wild Rover

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Water Circulation
« on: November 03, 2014, 07:48:08 PM »
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Hi all :)

I have just changed from an internal filter to a Fluval 306 External. Due to the design of the Fluval Roma 200 I have had to put the inlet pipe back left and the outlet back right. The outlet is pointing left towards the inlet atm but not much seems to be finding it's way to the inlet pipe.

For example, if I drop food into the tank, what doesn't get quickly scoffed by Danio's and Congo's shoots to the left side of the tank, is pushed down and then flows to the right hand side where it settles on the floor underneath the outlet pipe. Basically there seems to be no current moving things towards the inlet pipe.  :-\

Should I get a spray bar? if so, should it go on the back or the right hand side? Or is there just a better way of setting up what I have?

Thanks

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Offline Wild Rover

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Re: Water Circulation
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2014, 06:58:31 PM »
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Anyone?  :-\

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Offline Sue

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Re: Water Circulation
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2014, 07:04:05 PM »
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Disclaimer - I don't have externals so I don't know anything from personal experience, just what I read.


I think the in and out tubes are supposed to go at opposite ends as you have them but I think most people do use spraybars. I have no idea if this is to direct the water in a particular direction or to spread the inflow so it doesn't create a big current in one place.  :-\

Offline dbaggie

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Re: Water Circulation
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2014, 07:25:16 PM »
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The outlet is pointing left towards the inlet atm but not much seems to be finding it's way to the inlet pipe.

I've no experience in external's either so this is just a guess, but wondering whether directing the outlet to the right (i.e. away from the inlet) could help? It sounds as if you are creating a left to right flow, hence why the leftover food is settling underneath the outlet, whereas you perhaps need a right to left flow so that the opposite happens - theoretically the 'pull' of the inlet could then continue the circulation??

Offline Wild Rover

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Re: Water Circulation
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2014, 08:04:56 PM »
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Thanks both

dbaggie, as the outlet is top right and inlet bottom left do you mean point the outlet at the glass? There is only a gap of an inch or two so not sure where the water would end up! :)

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Offline dbaggie

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Re: Water Circulation
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2014, 10:06:36 PM »
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Yes, although I wasn't sure how close it was to the glass. Can you also angle the outlet up/down? If so you could try it angled down or at water level whilst directing it right. Still a shot in the dark though!

Offline fishcake76

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Re: Water Circulation
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2014, 10:21:24 PM »
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Just a suggestion but have you tried looking on you tube to see how other people have theirs set up?? There's bound to be some videos on there with what you are trying to work out ( all greek to me I'm afraid!!!!)  :-\

fc76


Offline Wild Rover

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Re: Water Circulation
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2014, 08:15:11 PM »
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Didn't work db, just collected front right instead of back >:(

fc76 I tried that but couldn't find one. Loads about taking it out of the box though  ;D

Thanks all anyway, I've emailed the Hagen help desk people for their opinion, seems like they are very helpful


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Offline naughtymoose

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Re: Water Circulation
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2014, 09:32:04 PM »
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Rover,

thinking about the fluid mechanics of tanks, I think it likely that all of them will have 'dead' spots.

I've taken to changing the direction of the flow on my Interpet PF1 every now and then, and also giving the plants a bit of a stir around. I was amazed at how much stuff was dislodged from the leaves the first time.

Offline SteveS

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Re: Water Circulation
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2014, 11:10:29 PM »
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You don't want the water to flow from the outlet directly to the input; That would just filter the same water over and over again. You say there's not much water finding it's way into the input of your filter. If you sit and think, this is illogical. If there is water coming out of the filter, then that much water, no more and no less, is finding it's way into the filter. That's what we mean by 'circulation'!

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Offline Wild Rover

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Re: Water Circulation
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2014, 11:45:40 PM »
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I don't see your point Steve. The outlet is top right and the intake bottom left in a 200 litre tank so it can hardly be just sucking in the water that has just been filtered. Basically the food is shooting from top right to top left, down to bottom left (past the inlet) then from bottom left to bottom right where it sits so clearly the current has got at least that far.
I never said there was not much water finding it's way into the inlet (maybe I should have been clearer that I meant not much waste etc). Clearly a lot of water is being sucked in and I'm well aware that the same amount going in comes out, frankly I found your comment patronising.

Maybe a suggestion as to what I should do would have been more helpful.

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Offline SteveS

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Re: Water Circulation
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2014, 02:57:23 AM »
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I apologise if you found my post patronising; That was not my intention. When formulating an answer to a post I have little idea of the target of my reply. You may be a professor of fluid dynamics or a science hating teenager, It isn't easy to find the right tone.

You appeared to expect the food being washed around from the outlet to get sucked into the input and I assumed that you expected the water flow to be directly from output to input. If this isn't what you meant, then, yes, perhaps you should have been clearer.

As to what you should do, well most people with an external filter would arrange the input and output as you have; One on  one side of the tank, the other on the opposite side. It is undesirable to set up your filter so as to suck in food. The food is for the fishes, not the filter. It will get stuck inside the filter, decay and increase the ammonia load on your filter. Not to mention being a waste of money. Secondly, it is almost impossible to arrange your filter to prevent dead spots, especially if you have any obstructions such as plants, wood, rocks or plastic deep sea divers in the tank. These will all divert the flow in some way. This holds true even if you use a spraybar. A spraybar just alters the circulation patterns and is usually used to reduce the force of the flow from the output. So if your flow is too strong, use a spraybar; if it isn't, you should be OK with what you have.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
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Offline naughtymoose

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Re: Water Circulation
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2014, 05:57:34 AM »
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I think that the best thing would be to turn the filter off at feeding time for a few minutes. Then the food will stay in suspension a bit, and the fish can get at it. A tip I was given is to take your food flakes etc, and scrunch them up in a little pot (I use a tiny plastic 'Tupperware' type pot from a pound shop). Then I just dip it in the tank to get a bit of water, swirl it around and then rinse it in to the tank. The food drops right at the front, away from the plants etc.

Don't forget to turn the filter back on!

Offline Wild Rover

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Re: Water Circulation
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2014, 07:22:07 AM »
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Thanks nm, not a fan of turning the filter off but I will try turning it down when feeding.

Cheers Steve, so would you leave the outflow facing right to left or is there a better direction to point for better circulation? Also I'm not saying that I want food to be sucked into the filter, I'm just concerned that anything that should be filtered to keep the tank crystal clear will not find it's way there. Sorry if I was a bit grumpy, it was late and my plastic deep seas diver has died  ;)

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Offline Fiona

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Re: Water Circulation
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2014, 03:03:09 PM »
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Don't forget to turn the filter back on!

 :yikes: I actually did that once, talk about a mad flurry of activity after the discovery next morning

Offline SteveS

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Re: Water Circulation
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2014, 03:14:25 PM »
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If you have plants, fiddle with it until the leaves of your plants flutter; Just a little sort of waft will do, to indicate there is some current. It's difficult to give a general rule, perhaps a professor of fluid dynamics might help, if we have one around  ;)

Just as an example, mine points at 45o towards the front of the tank and the inlet. But this just works for me.

As for your grumpiness; I have a reputation for being a grumpy old git, so I can take it so don't worry about it.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Angelfish (1) - Panda Cory (10) - Harlequin Rasbora (10) - Otocinclus (10) - Japonica Shrimp (10) - Honey Gourami (10) - Galaxy Rasbora (10) -
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Offline Wild Rover

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Re: Water Circulation
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2014, 04:46:35 PM »
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Cheers Steve

The guy from Hagen replied today and looks like you are bang on. He said to have them at opposite ends and point the outflow corner to corner so I end up with the intake back left and the outlet back right, pointing towards front left.

I'm sure it would work as well with the intake back right and the outlet pointing to front right  ;)

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Offline Fiona

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Re: Water Circulation
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2014, 06:20:27 PM »
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I have a reputation for being a grumpy old git,

Indeed!  :rotfl:

Offline dbaggie

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Re: Water Circulation
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2014, 09:29:28 PM »
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If your main concern is dead spots, how about adding a small wavemaker? I have one in my tank and just put it on from time to time, rather than running it permanently.

Offline biffster

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Re: Water Circulation
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2014, 08:08:27 AM »
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try placing a spray bar half way down the back of the tank
you might find it will help

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