Tank-move/upgrade/cycling

Hi,

My current tank is a 90L (60x40x40). It's been up and running for three years now. At the time I had read enough to know that I needed to do a fishless cycle, but information was a bit sketchy so I went to the LFS after my tank had been up and running for two weeks to enquire if my tank would be ready for some fish. 'Yeah sure' was the response. At no point was I asked about water parameters. Instead I was sold 7 dragon tail guppies. Two days later 3 were dead, I took the other 4 back to the shop, researched some more and realised that I was a long way of having fish in my tank! I'm not sure how long it took to cycle as I just used fish food but no ammonia, and I didn't keep the cycling records (a scrappy A4 sheet of paper), but it took at least 6-8 weeks.

I've now bought a larger Fluval Roma 240. It's been up and running for a couple of weeks with just substrate, plants and bogwood. Although I put some of the old filter media in the new filter, I haven't done anything else. Since then I've realised that the bacteria in the filter probably haven't had enough to eat to keep going, so I started with some ammonia two days ago. However, it just dawned on me that I can probably just move all the fish and hook up the old Eheim Classic 2213 alongside the new Fluval 306?

Is that correct? Will I still be able to do this now I've put one dose of ammonia in? It'll probably be at least a week before I'd have time to do a big fish 'n filter move, so should I just forget about dosing with ammonia altogether and just move the old filter? Or do I have to carry on cycling now?

Also, there's now quite a lot of a dusty-rusty brown sort of algae - which is probably diatoms - in the new tank. I'm hoping that will just disappear of it's own accord once the tank is sorted out.

And that brings me to the actual fish. We're in Hertfordshire and my water parameters are of the liquid rock-variety as follows:

pH 8.1
KH 14 dH
GH 19 dH

My old tank has gravel substrate, light to medium planted, some bogwood and a turtle and sunken warship lovingly chosen by my sons... Annoyingly it also has a lot of black-beard algae on my large piece of bogwood. At some point the tank was overrun with this, but using Seachem Flourish Excel has cleared it off the plants. However I can't seem to shift it from the bogwood. Would the hot water or 10% bleach solution method kill it off?

The new tank has eco-Complete substrate, light to medium plants at the moment, and two large new pieces of boxwood. The water is quite tea-coloured at the moment because I don't have a bucket large enough to hold these pieces. The plan is to get a lot more plants. I was hoping to current plants in my tank will grow so well that I could propagate some, but with the brown algae that looks a bit unlikely for now.

Fish are:

4 adult female platies plus a bunch of fry
8 cardinal tetras
2 dwarf gouramis (1 male and 1 female)
1 ancistrus bristlenose pleco
1 zebra snail

The tank is very peaceful with no aggression between any of the fish (or snail). The pleco is very shy and spends most of it's days upside down under a small piece of dogwood. At 2.5 years, it's also the oldest inhabitant of the tank.
The gouramis seem to like each other. The female has a very swollen belly though, so I'm wondering if she's full of eggs? At one point I spotted some bubbles floating on the water - which may have been the possible beginnings of a bubble nest but I think the tank maybe has too much current for the male to build this.

The platies and Snailbob are happy as larry in the tank.

Obviously I have now realised that these species want different water. The platies and Snailbob love the hard water, so now I understand why they are so happy The other fish will find it harder going, although they all seem to be ok at the moment.

I'm a bit stuck on what to do with my soft water fish. The local LFS's don't take fish back and I don't know any other fish keepers in my area (and if I did, they would be using the same hard water most likely). For the time being I'll think I'll have to hang on to them, but going forward, I'm looking to keep only fish that are suited to my water.

Because of my existing stock, I can't add cichlids, so instead I've been looking at rainbow fish.

I'd be interested to know if anyone here keeps rainbowfish, and if they have experience of mixing them with other species? I was hoping to get Boesmani rainbowfish but I've read that a 120cm long tank is the bare minimum for them, so I've decided to rule them out.

Smaller rainbowfish such a Melanotaenia macculocchi or Lake Tebera rainbowfish or praecox or Australian rainbowfish (M. fluviatilis) all look interesting. I'm less of a fan of long-finned fish, and therefore less inclined to consider Pseudomugil or Threadfin rainbowfish.

Any input on any of it would be enormously appreciated!

Many thanks.

I've now bought a larger Fluval Roma 240. It's been up and running for a couple of weeks with just substrate, plants and bogwood. Although I put some of the old filter media in the new filter, I haven't done anything else. Since then I've realised that the bacteria in the filter probably haven't had enough to eat to keep going, so I started with some ammonia two days ago. However, it just dawned on me that I can probably just move all the fish and hook up the old Eheim Classic 2213 alongside the new Fluval 306?

Is that correct? Will I still be able to do this now I've put one dose of ammonia in?

The bacteria in the old filter should be absolutely fine, perhaps a little redundant with having less "food" than they would have been used to. The ammonia will help stimulate them back into activity. What water testing kit are you using?

I used to live in Bucks and had similar water parameters to yours, and I mixed tap water 50:50 with rain water (or RO from the LFS when the water butts ran dry or got too manky). This gave me a pH of 7.4 and a GH of 8º which is fine for the great majority of fish. Is it possible you could do this? All you would need to do is start using a 50:50 mix at water changes to gradually bring the parameters down.

I have considered that but ruled it out for a few reasons. There are two water butts in the garden but in summer the contents get used for watering the garden and filling water guns and they often get emptied out by the boys. Also it's a 240 tank so I would need to make quite a lot of water I think. On top of that, I would worry about keeping the water consistantly at the same parameters. So I've decided to stick with my hard water and go for 'special' fish that not everyone can keep 

Good plan.

There's a useful link to hard water fish here.

Any chance of running both tanks  You could keep the soft water fish in the smaller tanks using a tap:RO mix, then close it down once the fish have reached the ends of their lives.


Is the Eheim Classic running on the 90 litre and the Fluval 306 on the 240 litre? And you moved some media from the Eheim to the Fluval? (Just to make sure I've understood correctly)


Yes, you can run both filters in the new tank, but you can also move all the media from the mature filter to the new one. Or if you want to run both filters, mix old and new media in each filter. Then move all the fish.`
You will lose some bacteria. Not all the bacteria live in the filter; there are some on the glass, the substrate and on every piece of decor. So to cut down on the amount of ammonia the fish make, feed them less food for several days before the move, nothing on the day itself, and lower rations again for a few days after. Keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrite levels for at least a week after the fish move.

The reason for mixing media if you want to run both filters is that the bacteria colonise new media better if it is in direct physical contact with mature media.


But make sure all the ammonia and any nitrite made from it have gone before moving any fish. Maybe move a bit more media over to get rid of them. You can afford to move a third of the media in advance of the fish, but keep an eye on the stats in the 90 litre just in case.





Pseudomugils don't have very long fins but they are small fish which could limit your choices of other fish - wouldn't want them to get eaten.

Someone else posted this link, but I can't remember who  . Interesting read on hard water tanks here

Ooops, sorry Colin, I missed that 

Thanks for all the responses, it really is appreciated! We're in Hertfordshire so I think softer water areas are actually not that far away from us, and i may be ablessed to rwhom them.

With regards to keeping the old tank, that's not really feasible. The design of the cabinet is genuinely terrible. It's a bit difficult  to describe but basically the cabinet consists of a base with four upright panels in the shape of a diamond resting on it. On top of that is the panel on which the aquarium sits. The problem is that only one of the four upright panels opens out. The cabinet space is tiny and it's difficult to access the filter. I've been swearing at it for years!     My not-so-secret ambition is at some point to buy another matching Fluval tank and turns it into Lake Tangeniyka cichlid aquarium. But my husband is likely to put up stiff opposition!

Sue, thanks for the info, that's so helpful :-) To confirm,  yes the 90L tank has the Eheim filter, and the Roma tank the Fluval 306 filter. I might be able to move fish and filter next week, but I'm going to think it over first.

Thanks for linking the hard water article. I had found that a few weeks ago and have been using it to research fish that might work for me.

Littlefish,  I'd be quite interested to hear what sort of fish you keep?

My not-so-secret ambition is at some point to buy another matching Fluval tank and turns it into Lake Tangeniyka cichlid aquarium. But my husband is likely to put up stiff opposition!

Don't ask, just tell him. Us men are easy to get round. Present it as a fait accompli and there'll be some prid pro quo, but when it's all set up he'll tell you that you were right - which you knew all along. See? easy!

I just thought a bit of French and Latin would be good for the forum.

Perhaps that's the route I need to go down too - vielen Dank fur die Andeutung.

Just what I was going to say!

There are lots of lovely fish suitable for hard water. Sometimes they need a bit of searching out, sometimes it's worth checking more than one source for what water hardness fish prefer, then working on an average. I will admit to having some fish that are on the edge of their preferred water parameters.
The 340L tank is designated for a river tank because one of the first fish I saw on the internet that I really, really, really wanted was the tiger hillstream loach (sewellia lineolata). I have been distracted by other fish (and axolotls), but was determined that I would get some eventually. Over the past months I've kept a list of other fish that are suitable for the same environment, and also researched building a river manifold to ensure correct water flow, and plan to have the tank up, running and fairly well stocked by the end of the year.   
I am also going to upgrade my dwarf puffers to a larger tank, and cannot say enough about how awesome those little fish are.
At that point I actually run out of room in the living/dining room, but there are still fish I want, so I am going to have to put a Fluval roma 200L (because I've still got a cabinet) in the spare room. Also the tiger barbs will get the old dwarf puffer tank, which will have to go in the hallway.
Damn, just realised that at that point I may have to stop expanding the aquatic housemates.