Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => New Fishkeepers => Topic started by: Fiona on January 08, 2015, 12:04:57 PM
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We've started looking for fish we'd like to stock the fluval 200 roma tank we bought just before xmas. I really loved the look of green tiger barbs but when I got home and looked them up they'd be completely unsuitable for our water parameters; liquid rock tap water, nitrate 40ppm from tap (it drops to 20 in my heavily planted tank) ph 7.8 I've been slowly creating a list of fish that would be happy with our water but have yet to find anything as stunning as the GTBs.
I was wondering if anyone here has any suggestions?
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This is the list of fish for hard alkaline water that I have saved from somewhere or other:
Rift Lake cichlids
Central American cichlids (but not south American)
Most livebearers
Rainbowfish
Blind cave tetras
X ray tetras
Red eye tetras
Lemon tetras
False penguin tetras (but not true penguins)
Some killifish (eg eg Jordanella floridae & Aplocheilichthys macrophthalmus)
Anything there not on your list that catch your eye?
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I'm not sure why the tigers would be so unsuitable, they're all captive bred of course, being an artificially created colour form, and very tolerant of water conditions.
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This is something i would like to ask, i have probably done so before, but my Lfs all say, their fish are captive bread, and are "acclimatised" to local water, basically they are fit to go from their tanks to mine, is this not really true then?
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It could be, but will depend to a certain extent on the type of fish. What is more important is how many generations of the fish have been bred in captivity. In the case of common species such as tiger barbs, that will be hundreds or even thousands of generations. During that time, they will have been exposed to a wide range of different water conditions and only those which have a wide tolerance will survive and go on to breed and so pass this tolerance on to future generations. In a way, the breeders are speeding up natural selection and "survival of the fittest" is the result, in this case "fittest" corresponding to most tolerant of water parameters.
By slowly changing the water conditions a fish is in, one can to a limited extent increase its tolerance to water different from what it is accustomed to. However, a fish which really needs soft water, for example, will only tolerate relatively slight changes. It's not in its genes to go beyond a certain point. In the 18th century, people built "gardens of acclimatisation" where they believed that tropical plants could be slowly "hardened off" until they could survive in European climates. They failed, of course, it's what's in the genes that counts.
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So the longevity of what you buy is the main issue then? i hate to admit it, but i'm tending to think i want it, they say i can have it, if i don't buy it someone else will, but i do have a nagging conscience about it.
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Longevity has nothing to do with it, perhaps I haven't explained very well, but can't think how else to do so.
If a species of fish just doesn't have the physiology to cope with particular water, no matter how slowly the conditions are changed the conditions will eventually become too much for it. It's the same as if we were to put you in a room and slowly lower the temperature you would eventually die, no matter how slowly the change was made. On the other hand, if we put a thousand people in the same situation, some would last longer than others. If only those who survived went on to have children, and the same process repeated with those children, generation after generation, you would eventually end up with people who had rather more tolerance to cold than those you started with, although there would be a limit how far you could go.
If you can find fish which really have been bred locally in the same water that you have, then they should be OK in yours, but the vast majority of fish come to us from south-east Asia and very few are bred here. If your local shop has the same water as you, and the fish have been OK there for several weeks, then there is a good chance they will be fine in your tank. Most fish are more resilient than they are given credit for, unless you want to breed them, when you might need conditions closer to their ideal.
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Anything there not on your list that catch your eye?
Yes the cichlids but I'm not sure I'm experienced enough at fish keeping atm so I never even considered them, also their territoriality would concern me a bit. I'm going to spend a few hours browsing cichlids online I think. Thankee Sue yet again.
I'm off to a big MA in St Albans tomorrow for a browse, I'll take a notebook with me and see what they have in stock.
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Sorry for hi-jacking your post Fiona, hope you find something suitable, i'm in a hard water area and Cichlids seem very popular here, i don't know a lot about them but i was put off them for some reason, not sure if they are aggressive or just dissagreeable and have to be kept as single species? i'm sure if i'm wrong Richard will correct me :-[ Thanks Richard for full explantion :)
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If you mean Rift Lake cichlids, they have to be kept with other cichlids from the same lake (mainly L Malawi or L Tanganyika) They also have to be kept overstocked so no one fish can set up a territory at the expense of the others - overstocking with these fish keeps the aggression under control. These cichlids tend to be the most popular with people who have 'liquid rock' tapwater.
Central American cichlids can be stocked with a wider range of hard water fish, but as they tend to be on the bigger side.
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As we're moving the glass fish and glowlight tetras to the big tank as soon as it's cycled cichlids are not an option then I guess.
The temp range needed for the tetras wouldn't be good for the green tiger barbs either come to that. Ideally I'd really like to have 2 largish fish, maybe gouramis or rainbowfish and 3-4 shoals of smaller fish. Back to the drawing board I guess.
and you weren't hijacking AM I was wondering about the territoriality too ;)
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I spent 4hrs browsing MA in St Albans with my notebook and pen, when I got home I did a bit of research to check for compatibility and have come up with a few possibles to stock our tank so here's the list:
Celestial Pearl Danios
Rosy Loach (there was a note on the tank that said this fish is found with Celestials in the wild)
Celebes Rainbowfish
Forktailed Rainbowfish
Red and Yellow Honey Gouramis
I still need to find a suitable cory though
I asked the guy in there what water they use in the tanks and he said it's just mains water which surprised me a bit, they also have the same water supplier as me.
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I expect all shops use their tap water for all or most of their tanks, it would be prohibitively expensive to use anything else. If your shop successfully keeps all of its fish in the same water as yours, then any of them should be OK in your tank.
I've said it before but I'll say it again, people are far too worried about the hardness and pH of their water, the vast majority of today's "farmed" fish will do perfectly well in most water, it's only some of the wild caught fish, which are mainly the rare and expensive ones, that are likely to have problems.
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It crossed my mind too Richard
Now this may sound very silly but I'm going to print out some pictures of the fish I like, cut them out and then see what they'd look like together :) I want a variety of forms but don't want the tank to look to bust iykwim
I bumped into the young man that delivered my tank for me, he works in St Albans and Crews Hill MA, he's a very obliging chap. I really like the rosy loaches and he didnt have that many left and he can't guarantee getting any more so he said he'd hold 6 for me until my tank is cycled, its a privilege of being a regular customer apparently
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I bet your house has everything colour coordinated :)
If you really like the green tiger barbs I honestly think they'd be fine, they are no different from other tigers in requirements and should be OK up to pH 8.5, as the profile says. And if they are looking healthy in the shop no reason to worry. It's the advantage of getting things locally rather than traveling too far where the fish may be kept in very different water.
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I bet your house has everything colour coordinated :)
hehehe and the garden too ;D
the GTBs did look very healthy and happy I have to say and their high end water temp would fit in fine with the other fishes requirements and they are such handsome fish, so maybe I will get some too. I just need to work out stocking levels now, I dont want an overcrowded tank.
My son has thankfully swatted up a bit more on bumblebee gobies and has decided to have a tank specifically for them. I'm very relieved as I dont think they would have thrived in a busy tank.
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Thank you Richard, this is probably what you were trying to explain to me in another thread, that if my Lfs have the fish in my water perameters then i can risk them in mine?. Oh and Fiona while i was waiting 51 days for my other tank to cycle i will confess to cutting out pics of fish i wanted and blue tacking them onto front of tank :)) (i did want to colour co ordinate mine lol)
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I expect all shops use their tap water for all or most of their tanks, it would be prohibitively expensive to use anything else. If your shop successfully keeps all of its fish in the same water as yours, then any of them should be OK in your tank.
I recently visited for the first time a LFS a little bit further away from me. It was listed in the Practical Fishkeeping ranking pages as one of the top shops so I thought it was worth a trip. Indeed a great shop with lots of fish I've never seen at my local Maidenhead Aquatics. I had a chat with the owner who says he keeps his freshwater fish in tap water, he only uses RO water for his marine fish. His tap water nitrate levels are the same as mine, 50 ppm, and his fish are fine. So I wrongly assumed water in fish shops have much lower nitrates then mine. I was worried that fish bought from LFS, not used to the nitrate levels in my tank, would be likely to get sick and may cause some sort of outbreak among the fish I already have. It's a good idea to ask your LFS about their water parameters.
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Thank god I'm not alone AM! :) It seems to me a lot of fish will 'survive' comfortably outside their comfort zone, the specialist requirements seem to be about breeding which is something I don't want to do...yet
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For Cichlid's you could look at getting a pair of Kribensis, though they will become territorial if they breed.
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It crossed my mind too Richard
Now this may sound very silly but I'm going to print out some pictures of the fish I like, cut them out and then see what they'd look like together :) I want a variety of forms but don't want the tank to look to bust iykwim[/b]
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Well if you're silly Fiona then so am I for almost the same reason.
When we were presented with the tank at Christmas and I started cycling it I was getting it from all sides, "Have you put fish in yet?"
Not only from the grandchildren but the other half too who is sooooooo impatient (although better than he was)
I downloaded the fish we had been looking at, neon tetras and endlers, quietly printed them off, went to my craft room and carefully cut them out and put a dab of adhesive on the back.
Kept quiet about them and one evening when he went upstairs I quickly got them out and stuck them to the front of the tank at different levels.
I was back in my chair by the time he came in and it was so funny to see his face when he suddenly realised what he was looking at. They are still there. He thinks I'm mad!!
Next day I sent a photo of the tank to my daughter and grandkids and she was very excited, texting back to ask what fish we eventually got. I said at the moment we have paper neons and paper endlers. IT was quiet for a very long time and then I got a message back to say she had serious doubts about me.
I thought it looked good and it's even better now with more plants in https://www.facebook.com/ajax/mercury/attachments/photo.php?fbid=848886531800548&mode=contain&width=176&height=176
Goodness knows what he'll think about my next plan.
I've ordered floating fish which I'm going to attach to fishing line and anchor with a stone or something and, again, I shall add them to the tank without saying anything and then wait for the reaction.
I'm hoping that with the movement of the water the fish will have some realism, although they do look like pretend fish :rotfl:
So, you are not alone !!
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I've ordered floating fish which I'm going to attach to fishing line and anchor with a stone or something
I'll have to remember that and suggest it for other people having problems with their nearest and dearest ;D
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Do they float the right way up or have they gone "belly up"?
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Ah, well there you have me Richard. When I ordered them from Amazon I didn't check delivery, assuming it would be only a few days.
It would appear they are coming from China so I haven't got to try it yet. It did occur to me they may just float on their sides.
I have a tiny drill I used for a dolls house construction with the teeniest drill bit so if necessary I shall drill into a fin and put on marine mastic and see what happens.
I couldn't have them floating on their sides, they'd look like they were ill or dying !!
If and when they appear I'll do an update.
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That was supposed to be the joke, "belly up" meaning that they would look like they had died.
You might find you get hammered by the customs and postal service, they inspect many parcels from outside the EU and charge £8 "inspection fee" plus VAT if they do, even if everything is perfectly legal.
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Sanjo - at the rate items are taking to arrive from China through the post (have been waiting for 5wks now for something non-fish-related), it might be of 'consolation' to you that your fishless cycle might be complete and your real fish added to the tank before you ever get to set eyes on your floating fish. :)
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It will no doubt be crammed in a container on board ship or maybe at docks if you lucky lol
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What was really annoying was that having been caught in the same way by eBay I decided I would check very carefully that they were a British company. To be fair the eBay sellers did state Hong Kong etc.
Went to Amazon thinking I had found a British supplier because their trading address was Edinburgh. Wrong, so wrong. Very crafty people.
You are right Aquamaid, I'll probably have my real ones by the time they arrive
fcmf - If they attempt to ask for customs money they can take a running jump. They only cost £1.44 in total!!
If you look on Youtube for plastic floating fish there are several videos that I found after I ordered them.
#Invalid YouTube Link include https# this link might work. Mine are yellow.
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Well, the Goldus Chineseus arrived safely from Hong Kong today. !!! ( :rotfl:
I managed to sneak them into the tank whilst the other half was out. His face was a picture. He thinks I'm mad (although he did laugh)
Richard, they float very well, almost too well. Those I'd seen on youtube were at all levels, but these went straight to the top and stayed there, though they were upright thankfully.
Two of these I've anchored to the bed using fish weights, the others are free.
He might have laughed but he does sit there staring at them and is interested in why they suddenly shoot from one side of the tank to the other , but as I pointed out, I have two filters in there so that probably helps.
They are not particularly realistic but on the other hand they don't poop and don't need feeding and I've finally taken down the paper ones.
The tank is on the way to being cycled (at long last) so hopefully we can swap these for the real thing soon.
(I did try to upload a short video but it doesn't want to know)