Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => New Fishkeepers => Topic started by: Marcus_F on June 02, 2020, 06:00:03 PM
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Can I still post in newbie section, my tank is now 8 months old :D
I'm still not happy with the tank though, I buy plants to die in my tank, there is little else they seem to do except some from the outset which still spring new growth from the base (Echinodorus bleheri and Vallisneria sp. ‘Natans’)
Both are now covered in what I've determind is black beard algae and I've tried the SeachemFlourish route and it kills spots but it's growing faster it seems than I can spot treat without overdosing. It's not taken over the tank far from it, almost looks like it should be part of the Vallisneria sp. ‘Natans’ but I know looking closely it annoys me.
I've done a tone of research and it all says algae is from poor water conditions but unless I'm doing some drastically wrong I don't think my water is bad. I now use 50/50 with RO water, nitrate level is 20ppm at the weekly 20% water change. Ammonia and Nitrite are spot on at 0ppm. PH still 8.2 and the hardness has come down thanks to RO water to KH 71 and GH 160 (think that is the right way round, need to check figures I had.
I've read BBA could be poor circulation so I've got a powerhead coming just to help with circulation I do spot some debris at the back of the tank and my heater is now showing LF which it hasn't for past 7months. I need to work out why I've got BBA and so much online I just don't know where to begin.
I think I need to get my plants growing to out compete with the BBA, so I've invested in a new light, gone of the Fluval AquaSky (1100 lumen) I now have the Fluval Plant Spectrum 3.0 which can now give off 2400 lumen which is what is needed based on Tropica site.
Now online I'm reading the best settings and I have it down at 50% for most whites, 25% for red and 3% blue. Does that mean I've wasted my money and I should've stuck to the original light given I'm only using 50% of it :vcross:
The reason I turned to a new light source is Limnophila sessiliflora was struggling to stay upright and browning so surely a sign of poor light. Having made adjustments to the light it seems darker than original. Is it a case of don't trust my eyes, the light is better so doesn't have to appear brighter?
I feel like I'm at a loss, increase light to feed plant demands but then it will help the algae grow.
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Great minds - I was about to post about algae on plants too, albeit more about identification of what type of algae mine actually is.
Limnophila sessiliflora was the one plant I'd had some success with lately but also found it was browning (or at least brown algae was growing around it) - and I killed it inadvertently through fiddling with it and trying to remove the brown algae which was holding it together.
Anyway, I'm not sure I can help with your queries at all, other than to offer my full empathy as someone else who's not great at keeping plants alive. Hopefully, some of the others may be able to help.
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You sure it's great minds if we're both killing plants and have algae ::)
I'm at a cross road, increase light either by length (currently 9hrs) or intensity over say 7 or 8hrs. I've even looked at CO2 kits but that looks confusing.
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Good point! Terrible minds might be a more appropriate phrase.
@Matt and @jaypeecee (and others) have interest and expertise in these areas, so will no doubt be able to advise.
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What fertilisation are you doing??
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I’m using JBL Ferropol the green bottle. 20ML midweek, 40ML at water change but will admit I’ve been lapse on the midweek one.
I also currently add 8ml of seachem flourish excel using a calpol syringe to add directly to some plant leaves every day. Again it’s been more like every other day.
That’s all I use and the substrate is the Caribsea Eco Complete.
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https://flic.kr/p/2j87AnZ
https://flic.kr/p/2j87Aok
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Hi @Marcus_F
It's so frustrating, isn't it? And, in my opinion, I would not use Fluval lighting at all. Anyway, that's where we have to start. I sometimes compare light to the conductor of an orchestra. S/he dictates the pace of the music and all the players with their instruments have to keep up. So, the intensity of the lighting determines how much fertilizers are needed - including carbon. The whole idea is that the plants consume the fertilizers leaving little available in the water column for algae to get their mitts on.
It's often advised to start with a photoperiod (the duration the lights are ON) of just six hours and slowly increase this over time to eight hours or a tad more. It's hard to advise about intensity/brightness. My suggestion is that you start with the lowest brightness with which you can comfortably see your plants and fish. But, don't go any brighter - just yet.
The JBL Ferropol should be OK. I see you're using Excel. People have mixed views about this stuff. I have little experience with it. But, I am led to believe that it's unsuitable for use with Vallisneria.
Those are my initial thoughts.
JPC
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Dont tell me I should'nt go Fluval lighting haha, I went on a mad lock down spending spree at the weekend. Bought the new light which was not cheap, power head, Co2 test kit and i'm sure some other bits I've forgotten about which will appear in the post soon.
I read Co2 fluctuations due to bad water flow could be a cause hence the power head. I since remembered I added 2 months ago the Fluval Phosphate removal media and two weeks ago changed it. Having read up about the triangle of components needed for plant life I realised I could be remove much needed phosphorous and potassium. I've just removed it and add some polisher pads instead and flow seems better so I wonder if that was a cause.
Can you test all the levels of nutrients in the water to see where you're going wrong or is trial and error?
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Dont tell me I should'nt go Fluval lighting haha...
Hi @Marcus_F
I'm not sure what you are saying here. You chose Fluval lighting so that's where we must now start.
JPC
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@jaypeecee meaning as a joke :)
I’ve had the Fluval light less than 24hrs at some expense to try fix light issues and your reply was you wouldn’t use it. As in I’ve already made my first error ;D
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So I contacted Fluval basically to ask, if my new 2400 lumen light at 40% spectrum was the same as my original 1100 lumen at 100%. They didnt really answer that question, instead said put my lights up to 80%, 20% water change every other week and to add Phosphrate removal pads to filter to combat the HAIR algae. I did say it was black beard but they confirmed they are the same in relation to phosphate.
Now I'm sure I read plants needed phosphates.
Anyway, today being the first full day of the new light, one of my stem plants which was leaning over, is now upright. I mean it's small progress. Took more cuttings from the browning Limnophila sessiliflora so I have them dotted around in 3 areas of tank now to see if it takes up in one area better than the other.
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Dont tell me I should'nt go Fluval lighting haha, I went on a mad lock down spending spree at the weekend.
you wouldn’t use it. As in I’ve already made my first error
Firstly, don't panic - it's not an error. Everyone has different views on lighting systems. JPC and possibly others on here don't like Fluval lighting but I've read of plenty of others who use it and rave about how good it is and wouldn't try anything else. I'll have a dig around those posts elsewhere and see if I can find anything in relation to your issues that might remedy it - won't get a chance to do this until later in the week, though.
I'm a bit perplexed as to why Fluval only suggested a fortnightly water change and what their rationale was - I'd stick with weekly (assuming that's what you do).
Sounds a good plan to try out the plant in different locations to see where it does best - keep us posted on this.
I'm afraid I'll have to leave the rest of your questions to others.
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@Marcus_F I seem to be offering the same advice simultaneously to fcmf in relation to this - have you seen her thread?
The overwhelmingly most important thing in combatting algae growth is strong and health plant growth. To achieve this you can dose fertiliser in excess to ensure the plants requirements are being met. Health plant growth limits algae growth. Of course things do have to be balanced and a significant excess of one particular nutrient can lead to algae. BBA is not associated with high phosphate levels and so I don’t believe the removal pads are helping here. Also FWIW I have the fluval aquasky lighting and it grows plants very well - they fact that they are now stood up growing towards the light is a very good sign indeed.
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Thanks Matt, not seen the other thread, anyone able to share the subject and I'll go hunting.
Test kit arrived for Phosphate today, reading is 0.25ppm so no issues there. Not sure if the pads in for two days would reduce it significantly for my test today to have been too late to see high troublesome readings.
I didnt believe Phosphate was the issue but when you speak to Fluval directly you expect to receive a reliable answer. It seems not.
Do the plants need phosphate to grow or is 0.25ppm an ok reading?
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Hi Marcus,
It's this thread, started a while back but resumed at the same time as yours: https://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/fish-tank-plant-advice/tank-photo-containing-live-plants/msg49192/?topicseen#new
I very much doubt that there's any possibility of your phosphate pads reducing its reading much. On my API kit, I have 4.0 ppm or 5.0 ppm phosphate in the tankwater and tapwater but the phosphate pads only reduce it a little - to about 3.0 ppm or 4.0 ppm.
Out of interest, what is your tapwater reading for phosphate?
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Thanks will look at that shortly. Just tested tap water also 0.25ppm. Half my tank will be RO water too.
Reduced temp slightly to 24.5 with a plan to get it down to 23.5 tomorrow. Was 25.5 sometimes 26 with last weeks weather.
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Your phos level will be fine @Marcus_F
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Saw this interesting article, @Marcus_F - https://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/blog/2012/07/my-tank-has-hair-algae-how-do-i-get-rid-of-it.html?fbclid=IwAR2FW4Vu_3_q8Z7GmwCVpd0_jIGnXSDuIkZ5uTaKLwRFVdu16UoiVC8Xiag
Edited to add: This is also worth a read too - https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/features/carbon-in-the-planted-aquarium-gas-vs--liquid/
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Thanks, read them really quickly but will read in more detail tonight and consume the facts. I did see low CO2 being the cause for hair algae and potentially BBA which I think I have. I bought a power head to distribute the water (and the CO2 in it) more efficiently.
I've been reading up on KH and PH relationship to CO2. According to all the charts my PH of 8.2 is a real issue for CO2 in that I have 1ppm :( I've been trying to work out how with a KH of 5 I can lower PH. Only needs to get to 7.8 to dramatically improve my CO2 content.
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Wood and catappa leaves allegedly can reduce PH, albeit that's not been my experience.
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Yeah read that but water is not so crystal clear. Also the other option is RO water so not sure what's happening with mine.
Started to look at CO2 now haha
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Aquasoil also helps reduce pH
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Thanks @Matt
Would I be right in saying lowering KH would impact PH? Have I got that right?
Or is it that you can’t lower PH until you’ve lowered KH? Meaning the lowering of KH doesn’t directly impact the PH it just means when lowered you can then use say aqua soil and will see a drop?
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This is one for @Sue to answer (cos she will ace the chemistry and I will struggle!!)
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You can still have high pH with low KH. My KH is 4 dH and my pH is ~ 7.4 (it varies slightly according to the time of day).
KH buffers the pH. It is almost impossible to change the pH with high KH. But it is easy to change the pH with low KH. I don't mean by adding chemicals, this is always a bad idea, but things like driftwood, leaves etc produce tannins which are acidic and can lower pH - if KH is low.
Your KH is quite low. You could try driftwood etc, but I have to say that my wood has no impact on my pH. But wood that colours the water brown would have more impact - but you'd have to put up with the tank water being brown
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Thanks @Sue
That makes perfect sense. I'm ok with my PH at 8.2, it's high but I've no reason I can see to lower it. I was only looking into it because the KC > PH and CO2 relationship table shows better CO2 if the PH is slightly lower. Something like KH5 and pH 8.2 is 1ppm of CO2 but KH5 and PH7.8 has about 6ppm CO2 (all from memory).
I saw the advantage of dropping PH purely for the CO2 increase. 1ppm worried me haha
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CO2 has not interested me as I have slow growing plants in my tanks (except for floating plants which can get it from the air) so I don't know much about that aspect of plant keeping.
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The latest pics... plant growth seems ok but brown and green hair algae still persist.
https://flic.kr/p/2jiHNPA
https://flic.kr/p/2jiEPsY
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Tank, fish and plants all looking great - well done! :cheers:
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Your tanks looks great. :cheers:
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Looking good! I take it the anubias rhizomes are above the substrate?
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Looking good! I take it the anubias rhizomes are above the substrate?
Yeah they are slotted into spaces on the wood.