Author Topic: Stringy white stuff fishless cycling (Read 29018 times) 79 replies

Beckins · « **Reply #40 on:** May 23, 2020, 07:44:34 PM »

Quote from: jaypeecee on May 23, 2020, 07:14:56 PM

Hi @Beckins

I am hesitant to advise for the reason that I explained before. I'd rather leave this to @Sue. But, there could be benefit in your letting us have some numbers to put alongside the following parameters as things stand as of today:

Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
pH
KH
GH
Temperature

Can I also check with you the expiry date on the SafeStart and did you give the bottle a good shake before using it?

JPC

ph-7.4 (up a little from 7.2)
ammonia-2ppm
nitrite-0ppm
nitrate-0ppm
gh-60ppm
kh-40ppm
temp-28/29c

I bought a second bottle of tetra that I added today as the first one I bought online and realised the volume was for half my tank size...the dates are 10/20 and 02/21

and yes gave a shake!

Littlefish · « **Reply #41 on:** May 23, 2020, 08:03:44 PM »

I have tiger barbs in a Fluval roma 200.
As much as I enjoy having my hands nibbled every time I have to do something in the tank, I would say that my experience had led me to believe that they enjoy a larger tank with lots of plants & decor. Lots of things to explore as they are quite active and inquisitive - which can sometimes be a problem with the syphon at cleaning time.
I would recommend considering the 5-banded or cherry barbs that fcmf has suggested.

Sue · « **Reply #42 on:** May 23, 2020, 08:30:16 PM »

I think I would be inclined to add some bicarbonate of soda now. The bacteria we want to grow do need inorganic carbonate (ie KH) and bicarb will provide this. When the cycle has finished, you will need to drain the tank completely and refill without any bicarb. I used a level 5 ml spoonful in a 25 litre tank; I suggest you start with 2 x 5ml spoonfuls and see. Take a bit of water out of the tank, dissolve the bicarb in it, then pour it back. This should increase KH and pH. And hopefully help speed up the cycle.

Since the cycle has not really got going yet I would also tweak your filter. I have just looked at your tank on Interpet's website and see it comes with a CF3 filter. You don't need the carbon cartridge or the algae stopper pad. The simplest thing would be to take them out and replace them with some sponge, any make cut to fit. Then all you need to do is squeeze them in old tank water when they need cleaning.

Matt · « **Reply #43 on:** May 23, 2020, 08:47:03 PM »

I would second Sues recommendation for the filter having does exactly this myself in the past with the cf2

In fact I replaced everything of one large foam block given the outflow design

Beckins · « **Reply #44 on:** May 23, 2020, 09:07:39 PM »

Quote from: Sue on May 23, 2020, 08:30:16 PM

I think I would be inclined to add some bicarbonate of soda now. The bacteria we want to grow do need inorganic carbonate (ie KH) and bicarb will provide this. When the cycle has finished, you will need to drain the tank completely and refill without any bicarb. I used a level 5 ml spoonful in a 25 litre tank; I suggest you start with 2 x 5ml spoonfuls and see. Take a bit of water out of the tank, dissolve the bicarb in it, then pour it back. This should increase KH and pH. And hopefully help speed up the cycle.

Since the cycle has not really got going yet I would also tweak your filter. I have just looked at your tank on Interpet's website and see it comes with a CF3 filter. You don't need the carbon cartridge or the algae stopper pad. The simplest thing would be to take them out and replace them with some sponge, any make cut to fit. Then all you need to do is squeeze them in old tank water when they need cleaning.

Ahh I already bought a 3 month service pack for the filter too is it really not worth using? could you link me the type of sponges? and like how big should they be ...as big as the current algaway pad and carbon thingy? and do I just slot one into the current cage that's used for the algaway pad and just shove the other one in next to it?

my tank holds 107l at the moment, what sort of kh should I be aiming for when adding the bicarb?

Beckins · « **Reply #45 on:** May 23, 2020, 09:33:14 PM »

argh dont have any bicarb...would baking powder do the same thing?! I have some of that lol although it was out of date in 2015

Beckins · « **Reply #46 on:** May 23, 2020, 10:08:42 PM »

something like these?

fcmf · « **Reply #47 on:** May 23, 2020, 10:56:09 PM »

Yes, those look 'spot-on'.

(Re baking powder, no- unfortunately not the same as bicarbonate of soda.)

LeakysLab · « **Reply #48 on:** May 23, 2020, 11:12:48 PM »

Hi

The only problem with the service pack is that if you simply remove and replace you are loosing the beneficial bacteria keeping the tank running efficiently. I have a internal filter and I’ve not replaced anything in there. I wish I had used sponges because they are super easy to clean off (in old tank water). This is the information that is usually missing off of the manufacturers instructions when advising you to change the media cartridges.

Edit: removed excess text to make post easier to read.

Beckins · « **Reply #49 on:** May 23, 2020, 11:18:13 PM »

Quote from: LeakysLab on May 23, 2020, 11:12:48 PM

Hi

The only problem with the service pack is that if you simply remove and replace you are loosing the beneficial bacteria keeping the tank running efficiently. I have a internal filter and I’ve not replaced anything in there. I wish I had used sponges because they are super easy to clean off (in old tank water). This is the information that is usually missing off of the manufacturers instructions when advising you to change the media cartridges.

Edit: removed excess text to make post easier to read.

Ok then I will get them ordered...is it best I just take out the others now then and just leave it half empty until the sponges arrive? I hope the bacteria I've just added haven't taken up residence in them just yet :-o

edit...also would it be sensible to order some more ceramic rings? just that I noticed my cartridge with those in only has the rings in the bottom half of the cartridge and the top is empty?

Matt · « **Reply #50 on:** May 24, 2020, 12:43:29 AM »

Not sure about the retailer as it’s just the first google result for what I was searching for but I think it’s this I used and suspect it was the size ‘L’ which fit without much modifications... check the dimensions required as this was now many years ago I did this?? Make sure whatever you buy, that it will not only fit, but fit rigidly so it does not simply float away!
https://www.pond-planet.co.uk/aquarium-c4/media-spares-c113/aquarium-filter-media-c107/juwel-bioplus-fine-filter-sponge-p3574/s5841?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=juwel-bioplus-fine-filter-sponge-size-one-size-one-88021&utm_campaign=product%2Blisting%2Bads&cid=GBP&gclid=CjwKCAjwk6P2BRAIEiwAfVJ0rDvDmfCebhwGiWQYfQOZpeH47LMJe87qs5-P_DT45OkHH7_PWHBs3RoCQhcQAvD_BwE

jaypeecee · « **Reply #51 on:** May 24, 2020, 09:56:58 AM »

Quote from: Beckins on May 23, 2020, 07:44:34 PM

ph-7.4 (up a little from 7.2)
ammonia-2ppm
nitrite-0ppm
nitrate-0ppm
gh-60ppm
kh-40ppm
temp-28/29c

Hi @Beckins/@Sue

The following is for information and consideration:

From the above figures, I have calculated that the free ammonia is 0.036/0.039 ppm for temperature 28/29C, respectively. I use the Seachem recommendation for free ammonia, which is that it should be less than 0.02 ppm. Any increase in pH will increase the free ammonia, i.e. it will be greater than 0.039 ppm. And, an increase in pH may happen if KH is increased with the addition of sodium bicarbonate. As we don't know the chemistry of the tap water conditioner being used here, it's difficult to know exactly what's going on in @Beckins' tank. But, keeping a close watch on ammonia is obviously critical to success. A Seachem Ammonia Alert fixed inside the tank would be one way of doing this.

Here's a link:

https://www.seachem.com/ammonia-alert.php

JPC

Sue · « **Reply #52 on:** May 24, 2020, 10:34:27 AM »

There is a cheaper way to keep an eye on the amount of free ammonia - use a calculator
https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php
Set salinity to zero and enter the other figures from the tester/thermometer, and look at the "NH3 concentration" box on the right.

When there are fish in the tank, that number must be below 0.02 or the fish will suffer. Measuring free ammonia is important during fish-in cycling as we can use this to decide when we need to do a water change. But once the cycle reaches the nitrite stage, water changes should be done to remove nitrite even if free ammonia is below 0.02.
For fishless cycling, the free ammonia level doesn't matter as long as total ammonia does not exceed 5 ppm. Ideally it should not exceed 3 ppm or nitrite will go higher than stall point.
Once a tank is cycled, there should be a total ammonia reading of zero, which will always have a free ammonia level well below 0.02 regardless of pH.

Filter bacteria multiply fastest at around pH 8. They still multiply at any pH above 6.5, just not quite as fast. Adding bicarb to assist a fishless cycle in soft water has two benefits - it provides inorganic carbon for the bacteria and it increases pH. (Hard water does not need bicarb as KH is high in tap water)
But the bicarb must be removed by a total water change after the cycle finishes. Since it is only low KH water which 'needs' bicarb, GH is usually low as well, and the tank should be stocked with soft water fish which don't tolerate sodium in the water.

Baking powder is bicarbonate of soda plus an acid, usually tartaric acid. It should not be added to a fish tank.
Pick up some bicarb next time you go shopping/get a delivery.
As long as KH is over 5 that's fine. I probably used too much as my KH went to 13. This is why I suggested to use less than I did.

Beckins · « **Reply #53 on:** May 24, 2020, 10:50:13 AM »

Quote from: Sue on May 24, 2020, 10:34:27 AM

There is a cheaper way to keep an eye on the amount of free ammonia - use a calculator
https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php
Set salinity to zero and enter the other figures from the tester/thermometer, and look at the "NH3 concentration" box on the right.

When there are fish in the tank, that number must be below 0.02 or the fish will suffer. Measuring free ammonia is important during fish-in cycling as we can use this to decide when we need to do a water change. But once the cycle reaches the nitrite stage, water changes should be done to remove nitrite even if free ammonia is below 0.02.
For fishless cycling, the free ammonia level doesn't matter as long as total ammonia does not exceed 5 ppm. Ideally it should not exceed 3 ppm or nitrite will go higher than stall point.
Once a tank is cycled, there should be a total ammonia reading of zero, which will always have a free ammonia level well below 0.02 regardless of pH.

Filter bacteria multiply fastest at around pH 8. They still multiply at any pH above 6.5, just not quite as fast. Adding bicarb to assist a fishless cycle in soft water has two benefits - it provides inorganic carbon for the bacteria and it increases pH. (Hard water does not need bicarb as KH is high in tap water)
But the bicarb must be removed by a total water change after the cycle finishes. Since it is only low KH water which 'needs' bicarb, GH is usually low as well, and the tank should be stocked with soft water fish which don't tolerate sodium in the water.

Baking powder is bicarbonate of soda plus an acid, usually tartaric acid. It should not be added to a fish tank.
Pick up some bicarb next time you go shopping/get a delivery.
As long as KH is over 5 that's fine. I probably used too much as my KH went to 13. This is why I suggested to use less than I did.

Ok,and should I take the algaway and carbon out my filter today or wait until the sponges arrive?

Sue · « **Reply #54 on:** May 24, 2020, 10:55:37 AM »

I'd take them out now. That will leave the media you want to keep. It is better for the bacteria to start growing just on there rather than on media you will take out. Then when you get more media, the bacteria will start to grow on that as well.

However, if the filter doesn't work properly without them, put them back.

Beckins · « **Reply #55 on:** May 24, 2020, 11:38:53 AM »

Quote from: Sue on May 24, 2020, 10:55:37 AM

I'd take them out now. That will leave the media you want to keep. It is better for the bacteria to start growing just on there rather than on media you will take out. Then when you get more media, the bacteria will start to grow on that as well.

However, if the filter doesn't work properly without them, put them back.

How do I know if its working properly? taken them out and it still looks like its running ok,waterflow is same as it was anyway...guessing that's ok?

Sue · « **Reply #56 on:** May 24, 2020, 11:46:27 AM »

Make sure the water is flowing through the media that's left and not over the top or round the sides. If that's OK, you can leave it without the carbon and algaway pads till you can get some sponge.

The sponges should be cut so they are a tight fit and the water can't sneak round the edges. Water will always take the easiest route, we need to make sure it has to go through the media rather than round it.

jaypeecee · « **Reply #57 on:** May 24, 2020, 12:09:04 PM »

Quote from: Sue on May 24, 2020, 10:34:27 AM

There is a cheaper way to keep an eye on the amount of free ammonia - use a calculator
https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php

With respect, @Sue, that requires an ammonia measurement to be made using a test kit. And, that takes time and is inconvenient when done frequently. What I suggested is an instantly-visible reading every time you look at the tank. The Seachem Ammonia Alert is currently priced at £7.95 from Amazon. It can last up to one year. It will pay for itself in less than two months.

The calculator that you have referenced above is the very one that I used to calculate free ammonia figures in my previous post.

JPC

Beckins · « **Reply #58 on:** May 24, 2020, 12:12:36 PM »

Quote from: Sue on May 24, 2020, 11:46:27 AM

Make sure the water is flowing through the media that's left and not over the top or round the sides. If that's OK, you can leave it without the carbon and algaway pads till you can get some sponge.

The sponges should be cut so they are a tight fit and the water can't sneak round the edges. Water will always take the easiest route, we need to make sure it has to go through the media rather than round it.

I'm pretty confused how I can know where the water is flowing? it's pretty empty in there :-/ im unsure where the media should be placed within the filter, it was at the very back behind the algaway pad and the carbon thing which I took out?

Where abouts should I be putting the sponge(s) when they come in relation to the media?

Beckins · « **Reply #59 on:** May 24, 2020, 12:15:05 PM »

Also it's like half empty as it is, the top stuff I added from my friends tank ...

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Stringy White Stuff Fishless Cycling

Stringy White Stuff Fishless Cycling

Author Topic: Stringy white stuff fishless cycling (Read 29018 times) 79 replies

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