Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => New Fishkeepers => Topic started by: sunshine on May 25, 2015, 07:04:45 PM
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Hi
I'm hoping to start the fishless cycle on my 2nd tank soon and wondered what type of fish I could have. I was told by the seller it was a 100l tank but working out the measurements & subtracting the volume taken by the cut off corner (for a filter) = 123.5litres.
I am considering an external filter as there is a ready cut hole in the base of that corner area. The water here is very soft and pH usually = 7.6. What fish do you suggest?
I've checked the fish profiles on here & as my tank is not 60cm - it seems a no-no for neon tetras that I'd love unfortunately. I'd like this to be a community tank if possible.
Thanks in advance :)
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Hey Sunshine, congrats on the new tank!
What type of fish are you interested in? For a setup like yours, I'd probably go for a school of small Corydoras for the bottom of the tank. Maybe Pandas? A pair or trio of Honey Gouramis for centrepiece fish and a school of small mid to high level swimmers? I have recently bought a school of Pseudomugil sp. 'red neon' and cannot recommend these tiny rainbow fish enough. They shoal quite well, are constantly displaying and are absolutely stunning. Check out a video of their behaviour and you'll see what I mean. Harlequins or Espei Rasbora would also be nice. There are a plethora of tetra that would be suitable and it really does depend on what your preference is.
My biggest tip would be to get larger shoals of the same fish than a few of a variety. The more of the same fish you get, the better they shoal and the vibrant their colours.
You could also go for a biotope tank, picking fish and plants from a specific region. There are some spectacular examples online.
Good luck!
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I've checked the fish profiles on here & as my tank is not 60cm - it seems a no-no for neon tetras that I'd love unfortunately.
I'm probably being a bit thick here, but if the tank is 123 litres, isn't it longer than the 60cm minimum for neons?
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Hi
Wow Cod - you've given me so many ideas. I've been glued to youtube the past couple of hours. I like the idea of the corydoras. I'd need sand for them? I love real plants so how can they grow in sand?
Sue, no you're not being thick - I didn't describe it properly, sorry! It's a cube! [52x52x52cm].
Thanks!
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If I were you I'd go for a S. American biotope. You mentioned you liked neons, and I'll probably be shot by some people for this, but I think neons or even cardinals would be fine in your tank. A 52cm cube would provide more swimming room than a 60 x 30. If you're concerned, green neons tend to be a little smaller. I would also put the embers in the new tank too as I think they're a bit big for a 23l (though it would make an awesome shrimpery!). A nice school of cories and maybe a smaller plec (bristlenose, clown or zebra - if you're feeling flush).
For the tank decor, a dark sandy substrate is ideal but play sand is a great cheap alternative. You could put a soil base in if you like, but lots of plants grow just fine in sand. Add some aquarium safe rocks (ones that won't raise your pH or hardness - there's lot of info online) and some nice big driftwood pieces. I'd throw some Amazon Sword and Vallies at the back of the tank. To be honest I'm getting a bit carried away, but there's tonnes of choices and figuring out what you want to do with your tank is almost as much fun as actually doing it!
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Thanks Cod you can get as carried away as you like - you're definitely inspiring me! :)
I'd love to have neon tetras - had them when I was a child so they're a favourite of mine :-) Thank goodness I have this week off work as it's half-term so I've got time to find out and think about it all. I'll try & find out more about the biotopes - sound interesting!
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If I were you I'd go for a S. American biotope. You mentioned you liked neons, and I'll probably be shot by some people for this, but I think neons or even cardinals would be fine in your tank. A 52cm cube would provide more swimming room than a 60 x 30. If you're concerned, green neons tend to be a little smaller. I would also put the embers in the new tank too as I think they're a bit big for a 23l (though it would make an awesome shrimpery!). A nice school of cories and maybe a smaller plec (bristlenose, clown or zebra - if you're feeling flush).
For the tank decor, a dark sandy substrate is ideal but play sand is a great cheap alternative. You could put a soil base in if you like, but lots of plants grow just fine in sand. Add some aquarium safe rocks (ones that won't raise your pH or hardness - there's lot of info online) and some nice big driftwood pieces. I'd throw some Amazon Sword and Vallies at the back of the tank. To be honest I'm getting a bit carried away, but there's tonnes of choices and figuring out what you want to do with your tank is almost as much fun as actually doing it!
I agree with you that neons can do perfectly well in a tank that is 20 inch long.
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Pleased that you think it's ok to have neons, Brian & Cod. When I checked the fish profile on here it said tank needs to be 60cm that's why I wasn't sure.
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I agree with Cod about the green neons (http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/paracheirodon-simulans/). Don't be fooled by the name green because they are blue. They only look greeny blue when viewed from a certain angle. I have some and can say that mine ,at nearly 5 years old, have never grown more than an inch and a quarter. Seriously Fish says they can go in a 45 X 30 cm tank.
My water is softish with a pH of 7.5 and I have Microdevario kubotai (http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/microdevario-kubotai/) (aka neon green rasboras). These look particularly good with ember tetras (which I also have) so if you moved those over they do go well together visually.
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M. Kubotai are stunning, but not from S. America so out of the question ;)
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By the way, the diagonal distance in your tank would be approx 72cm, whilst its only 67cm in a 60 x 30 tank so I would conclude the neons would have plenty of room to dash about your tank.
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M. Kubotai are stunning, but not from S. America so out of the question ;)
Ah but that's only if you want a biotope ;D
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I know, I've got no idea if Sunshine wants one but I'm hoping I can convince her!
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Hmmm you've got me thinking about it Cod! ;)
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Pleased that you think it's ok to have neons, Brian & Cod. When I checked the fish profile on here it said tank needs to be 60cm that's why I wasn't sure.
Just remember that that was made by a person, and people don't know everything. We are not perfect in any way, well maybe in causing wars and violence. Also we all have different opinions. For example, some people think that an oscar should have a minimum of 55 gallons while some think 40 gallon breeder and some say 75 gallons.
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Just had another thought about your biotope ;)
How about some Corydoras, a shoal of neons and some Apistogramma. They would all do well in your water and I've read they're compatible, though I've never kept any myself. You'll have to be a little careful with your selection of Dwarf Cichlids as some can be aggressive, but they would make fantastic centerpiece fish. I'm sure there'd be plenty of views on your proposed stocking!
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Thanks, you've all given me plenty to think about. :) I've been reading up on small corys as I've never had them before and also biotopes ( nod to Cod :D ). Biotopes do make sense and as I like the idea of a calm, peaceful tank - tetras & corys seem the way to go. Not sure about dwarf cichlids Cod, they seem a bit too aggressive for my teeny embers?
As some of you have recommended moving my embers from the 23l to the large one, I'll do that & add some more to their group. I'll have a look for green neon tetras as I like the sound of them really being 'blue'. It will be quite a while before I start adding fish anyway so plenty of time to research & look around. I'm still deciding what stand to use as the stand that came with the tank doesn't look like it would hold a full tank. :-\ Once I've sorted that out, I'll be able to start the fishless cycle. :)
Few qns:
1. Do small corys have a preference for a certain colour of sand? (hope that's not a stupid qn!)
2. I've not used sand before - any advice please? Type / how deep should it be / adding plants, etc.
3. What order would you add the fish? ie. do corys need a well-established tank? Obviously I have the embers already so could they go in first. Think they'll be a bit lost on their own in such a huge tank.
Apologies if these qns have been asked numerous times - I've searched the forum & found some info but not exactly what I need to know.
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It's the cories that might have problems with dwarf cichlids rather than tetras, so if you want cories, leave out cichlids. [Cories have no concept of territory so if the cichlids breed cories don't learn to stay out of the 'egg' region and get chased away constantly]
Cories don't need a well established tank, by which I mean you don't have to wait six months to add them, but some species need to wait a few weeks.
Green neons aren't as common as neons and cardinals. The easiest might be to ring round first. The way to be absolutely sure the shop has labelled them correctly is to look at the blue stripe. In neons and cardinals, it stops before the tail while that of green neons goes right to the tail.
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I did read that Cories may be a problem if you're trying to breed Dwarf Cichlids as they'd bulldoze their way in and eat the eggs. It does sound a bit stressful so probably best avoided! To answer your other questions (as best as I can!):
1. Do small corys have a preference for a certain colour of sand? (hope that's not a stupid qn!)
Most fish prefer a darker substrate, I believe because it makes them feel safer as they are more difficult to spot from above. Consequently they are supposed to display better colours. I assume Cories are no exception.
2. I've not used sand before - any advice please? Type / how deep should it be / adding plants, etc.
I started with a flat inch and a half layer of sand at the bottom of my tank, but got bored of that look pretty soon. I then added some larger rocks and placed varying depths sand across the tank, deeper at the back and shallower at the back. I'm really happy with the look and it supposedly helps push poo to the front for easier cleaning, but in reality my water pushes it to the back! Having a layer of sand that is too thick can supposedly lead to a build up of dangerous gas below the surface if the sand isn't agitated. My sand varies from 1/2 and inch at the front to about 2 and half at the back. Most easy grow plants do fine in sand and there's tonnes of info online about plant suitability.
3. What order would you add the fish? ie. do corys need a well-established tank? Obviously I have the embers already so could they go in first. Think they'll be a bit lost on their own in such a huge tank.
I would recommend the embers first as you all ready have them and they'll be happy with your water parameters providing the tank is cycled. Personally I'd then add the neons. This is based purely on a cost basis. Green neons usually cost less than £2 each, whereas cories can cost anywhere between £2 and well over £20 each depending on the species. In all honesty I don't think it'll be too much of an issue either way.
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Thanks Sue & Cod - very grateful for all your advice! I'm still researching the fish & plants altho' I now have the cabinet, filter & sand ready. :)
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No worries Sunshine. Are you still considering a biotope? If you are and fancy something a bit differed, check out hatchetfish. My personal favourite is the marbled variety (Carnegiella strigata). These guys stick to the surface of the water like glue and are perfect tank mates for tetra and corydoras.
If your checking out plants, the Tropica http://tropica.com/en (http://tropica.com/en) website is really good and lets you search by difficulty, position and of course origin!
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Hi
Yes, I am thinking of the S. American biotope, Cod. That website looks really helpful, thanks!
Unfortunately I've got to have an op in the next couple of weeks so I've been dithering about starting it all up or waiting. Think I'll start as I think it will help my recuperation ;-)
Didn't know about hatchetfish - apparently they're fantastic jumpers. That's all I need! Popped in to P@H yesterday and they had lemon tetras but no green ones. Had a look at the cories and they all looked very busy. Think they'll be a lovely addition the tank. Want to see a few more before I choose which type of cories. Plenty of time.....
I have a 3 hole coconut covered in moss in my 23l and my ember tetras love it soooooo much I'd love to put something similar in the big tank when they move in there. I've checked and I could use Christmas moss if I do the biotope.
Thanks for all the ideas and help - this is a real learning curve! :)
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Hope it's not for anything too serious. There's been lots of research to show the benefits of fish to health, so hopefully the new tank will help your recovery!
I made a couple of coconut caves but my x-ray tetra don't go in them. My platies and honey gourami enjoy popping in from time to time though. The x-rays do love my bogwood and wish I'd bought a bigger piece.
Hatchets are supposed to be great jumpers, but a lid should solve that problem! You may have to try another fish store as I've found P@H to have a limited variety of fish. I'm also not blown away by the health of the fish I bought there, but I guess that's dependent on the staff at the store so yours could be fine. My LFS regularly have green neons, but if they don't they are always happy to order any fish (though I've never taken them up on the offer).
I really wish I could convince my wife that a second tank is a good idea but I have no chance... however, I am retraining as a teacher and may be able to set up a biotope tank in my classroom as a science project!
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Oh wow Cod, the children would love that & you'd be teaching them a whole range of skills! I was a Primary school teacher but retrained as a play therapist and have often thought I should have a tank in the room.
I'm going to be on crutches for quite a while so methinks lying on the sofa watching fish will really help the healing process & my family wouldn't dare disagree! ha ha ;)
Yes, was passing P@H so that's why I popped in. Actually got my embers from a different P@H store & have been very pleased with their service. I've got a few others I could check out so will do. I've just bought bogwood so getting everything ready :-) Think I'll try & make a start tomorrow - need to wash the sand first.....
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I can vouch for the benefit of having fish while recuperating from lower limb surgery. Great to be able to watch them and get focused in on their little world - as well as the additional company aspect. I'm also scheduled to have more surgery in a few weeks' time, which is why I've got my third and final shoal, in order that the aquatic family is complete in advance :) .
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Hope all goes well, fcmf! :)
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Same to you, Sunshine!
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I'm really excited and am going to be teaching Primary too! I'm hoping I can make the biotope a real project if the curriculum allows.
We could work out volumes and stocking levels in maths. Habitats, the nitrogen cycle, plants, acids and alkalines in science. We could learn all about S. America and the different peoples in Geography. English could be covered by describing the fish/tanks, maybe the story of a wild fish... I could go on and on!
Good luck with your setup, I'd love to see some pics as it progresses!
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Sounds fantastic Cod - sure (most) of the children would be interested ....there's always one or two who would need persuading. Remind me not to tell you of the frogspawn story. :o Just wondering about funding - hopefully you wouldn't have to pay for it all? :-\
Anyway, set up my new tank today as a S.American biotope. I didn't choose a specific example e.g. blackwater, etc - it's just general. I'll start testing the water tomorrow.
Plants:
Myriophyllum mattogrossense, Christmas moss, Staurogyne rubescens, Heteranthera zosterifolia, Echinodorus bleheri and Bacopa australis. I checked they are all found in S. America. Apparently australis means its from the tropics & not from Australia. ;) Looking forward to seeing them grow!
I am a bit concerned about those slits in the black corner (top & bottom). I lost 2 embers in my 23l filter so definitely need to block those slits up - not sure how tho'. Any suggestions?
Thanks for all your advice. Sure I'll have lots more questions as time goes by. :)
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Well now that's a fine looking tank! Once the amazon swords grow a bit you'll barely see the filter. Hopefully the slits are too small for the embers to get stuck. Maybe you attach a thin piece of filter sponge somehow? That would still let the water through unimpeded but should avert any potential fishy disasters.
I really wish I'd gone for a biotope now. I love my tank, but its a bit of a mish-mash of fish and plants. The next tank will definitely be a biotope, but which region should I choose? It's a little way off, but I can't help but dream!
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If you paint the back of the tank a matt black that filter will vanish!
I've just done this on my tank (actually I used foam-backed black card, so I can change it in future if i want - but the effect is the same - a barely visible filter)
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Hadn't thought about that - thanks, Simon.
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Re blocking the slits in the back corner, Sanjo will hopefully be able to advise on that - she seems to be quite creative with that sort of thing.