Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => New Fishkeepers => Topic started by: AndreaC on August 28, 2014, 03:22:01 AM
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Hi all :)
I've just bought myself a little 60cm long 60 liter tank and am considering what to put in it. I had a look in my lfs and the internet and saw lots of fish I would like, so was hoping I could mention them and maybe I could get some advice about which would work in my tank and which combinations of fish would be best? And advice would be very much appreciated.
I definitely want to have a small group of tetras (maybe six?) and am trying to decide between cardinals and rummynoses.
Other fish that I really liked but am concerned need a bigger tank were honey dwarf gouramis, dwarf rainbows and electric blue rams. Would any of these be okay in my tank? I also just assumed that angelfish and bristlenoses would be too big but if they're not I'd love to add them :)
I would also love to have maybe four or so cories and maybe the same number of otos. I'm assuming these would both be fine but just thought I'd check.
Lastly, I saw some apple snails and thought they were pretty cool but i've had a snail problem before. If i got just one would i be running the risk of getting more? I've heard they can carry sperm for months, is there a way to get around this?
Hoping to hear your thoughts soon :)
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It sounds like you've got it mainly sorted.
If I was stocking a 60litre 60cm tank then I'd look at the levels....
Cory catfish on the substrate (Pandas (http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/fish/panda-cory.html) as they're small (and cute) )
Barbs for the lower third of the tank (Five Band (http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/fish/fiveband-barb.html) or Checkered (http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/fish/checkered-barb-puntius-oligolepis.html))
Tetras for the upper-mids - plenty of choice, but I particularly like the Rosy Tetras (http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/fish/rosy-tetra.html).
Play around with the community creator to see what stocking levels your tank can hold.
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You would need a bigger tank for the fish you thought you would. Honey gouramis would fit though. I notice you called them honey dwarf gouramis - shops often label them like this but honey gaouramis and dwarf gouramis are two separate species. Dwarfs get too bog and you'd need 1m 2f as males are notorious for harassing females. Honeys, on the other hand, can be kept as 1m 1f pairs and they are smaller. The only trouble I've ever had with honey gouramis is when i had a 1m 2f trio and the females didn't get on.
Electric blue rams can also need very specific water conditions depending just how many generations ago the last wild ancestor was. If it's recent (a generation or two) they need soft acid water at temps in the high 20s C. Breeders often introduce a wild caught fish into their breeding liens to widen the gene pool but you have no way of knowing if the fish in the shop have a recent wild ancestor or not.
I'd also look at pygmy cories, and if you can find them salt & Pepper, Corydoras habrosus (not peppered cories) or C. hastatus. These three are the smallest species.
Apple snails come in two sexes unlike some other species but yes, females can carry sperm like livebearing fish. However as they lay their eggs above the water line like tiny bunches of grapes if you did buy a sperm carrying female you'd just need to be vigilant about spotting and removing the egg clusters.
Or you could try selling any baby apple snails that do make it.
Or if you want snails, look at nerites. The females may lay sesame seed like eggs all over the tank but they don't hatch in fresh water.
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Thank you for your advice :)
Unfortunately 60 liters is really the biggest tank I can have at the moment because we have such limited space. So could I potentially have a pair of honey gouramis, a pair of rams (providing i can get the water right), some cardinal tetras and a few otos and cories? I've had panda cories before and loved them, so i'd be happy to look for them again.
I'm pretty sure apple snails are fine to have in australia; perth particularly is very relaxed about the pets people are allowed to keep!
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The EU has other ideas for us I'm afraid. Because apple snails were found in one river in Spain the import of them is banned throughout the whole EU.
I thought Australia was pretty tight on what fish you can have and can't have? I've read lots of Australians complaining about the limited number of fish species allowed.
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oh, that's a pity. Do they actually breed like crazy? The only species i've been interested in and not been able to keep is the african dwarf frog because they're not allowed here. I've actually only been in Australia for a few weeks- I come from New Zealand which is much stricter about what can and cant be kept as a pet. I think the rules are pretty regional though, for example the Eastern side of the country where Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney are have stricter regulations because the climate makes it easier for species to get out of control. I'm in Perth on the western side and as far as I'm aware there aren't many regulations because it's so hot and dry that very little that isn't already here could survive the summer. Plus there really isn't all that much environmental stuff worth protecting lol
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Hi Andrea :wave:
Welcome to the forum!
Just to put my tuppence worth in.....you really MUST get Panda Cories, they are just so-oo cute, I love mine. Sue knows all about honey gouramis (and everything else too, actually) but I would avoid the dwarf gouramis, which although beautiful, do have a tendency to develop a disease that is incurable...very sad. I had a gorgeous DG, but sadly lost him to this.
The electric rams are stunning, but they do need soft water.
Anyway, have good fun choosing, let us know what you decide on in the end, 'cos we're nosey buggers on here ;)
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Thanks Resa :) Yes, Sue is obviously very impressive! I do love panda cories and thought I might try a different kind but everyone seems to agree that they are the best so i shall go with them again :) Now for a dumb question: how do I keep my water soft enough? I know that drift wood softens it, but for the last fish i had i was told not to worry too much about the softness so i just kept an eye oh the pH.
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Noooo - it's the pH that's best left alone. To soften your water you can mix your tap water with RO water or rain water. What hardness is your water 'cos it's best left alone unless at extremes - most fish these days are farm bred and grow up in 'average' water. Stability, rather than the exact figure, is what's important to fish.
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That makes sense :) how likely is it that the fish shop will know how many generations ago their fish stock was removed from the wild?
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Very unlikely in my experience. The wholesaler probably won't know either. However, if you could find someone in your area who breeds them, you'd know exactly their heritage and what water they are used to. Is there something like aquarist classifieds (a UK website) in Australia? Any local fish clubs?
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I don't know, but I could find out today :) One last question and then I think I'm sorted lol If i'm going to have panda cories do i need to have sand as my substrate? I only heard that I should after I got mine last time. I would rather have gravel if it doesn't make that much difference to them but obviously it's not fair to put them into an environment that I know is not ideal.
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Okay, so just to check before I buy any fish, I'm looking to get (not all at once, obviously)
10 cardinal tetras
2 honey gouramis
2 electric blue rams (providing i can get the water right for them)
4 panda cories
4 otos
1 apple snail
The community creator says my tank will be 74% full which i guess is a good stocking level. Will this work?
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Hi Andrea :wave:
How exciting...new fishy time!
The only thing I would suggest is that you think about getting 6 or more Pandas, as they are happier in that number. It's better for you too, as they will really show off their little personalities better, because they will feel secure and happy.
As for the substrate question, I think sand is the best for them but they are ok on small rounded gravel that doesn't have sharp edges. This is because of their barbels which can easily get damaged. Having said that, I think the most important factor regarding any substrate, is that it is kept scrupulously clean. Any fish can get a little scrape....on the decor for instance, but if the substrate is clean it will massively reduce the chances of them getting infections in any injuries.
I have got small rounded gravel in my tank with my Peppered and Panda Cories, because like you, I had already got that when I bought my Cories, and 'touchwood', a year on and they have been fine.
After saying I only had one suggestion, here's another, make sure any decorations. plants (if not real) are smooth. Use silk plants and not plastic. That will minimise any injuries for your new little fishy friends.
Happy shoppping and don't forget piccies for us when your new residents are settled in. :fishy1:
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Looks good - but watch your temperature, there's very little overlap. 24º is top-end for pandas and bottom end for cardinals.
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Okay, will do :) Thanks so much for your help everybody!
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I don't know - I inherited 4 cardinals, which live with 12 neons in a 60 litre tank. Thermostat is set to 22 degrees, water is quite hard, and all of the fish are thriving I know they are at least 3 years old. Commercially bred fish are a lot more tolerant than one is led to believe. Incidentally, the cardinals shoal in with the neons and don't seem to stay with each other particularly, I sometimes wonder if they know the difference.
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Rams like it warm too - especially those specimens with recent wild ancestors. Tank bred only for generations would be OK though.
The only cories that can cope with higher temps are sterbais - which get too big for a 60 litre, unfortunately.
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Rams like it warm too - especially those specimens with recent wild ancestors. Tank bred only for generations would be OK though.
Bolivian Rams (http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/fish/bolivian-ram.html) seem to like it cooler than Rams 'ordinaire' - down to 22ºC according to ThinkFish.
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They do. But they are bigger fish and would prefer a tank bigger than 60 litres, which are usually 60cm long. Seriously Fish recommends 90cm minimum for bolivians.
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They do. But they are bigger fish and would prefer a tank bigger than 60 litres, which are usually 60cm long. Seriously Fish recommends 90cm minimum for bolivians.
I bow to your magnificance. :))
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Seriously Fish is a wonderful resource ;)
Besides, I've had bolivian rams and I know how big they get ;D
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Haha omg I thought all cories stayed pretty small because my pandas did and i went to the lfs the other day and i saw this one that was enormous! Yes, my tank is 60cm long and I'm really scared of over stocking it because my last one was so much bigger and had relatively few fish. Could anyone tell me what temperature my tank should be set to? I started cycling it the other day :D
Also, I saw a clown pleco in the store which I loved. The community creator says it would be fine size-wise for my tank, but that it is too big to be put with the cories. I thought that seemed odd because it's an algae eater so it should be fine with small fish but is this not the case? Does anyone have any experience with them?
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Nice and warm for cycling Andrea, then reduce the temp to what your fish need when it's done.
I had mine at 28, but that was the highest I could achieve with the heater that comes with the tank. Someone else will be able to tell you if it should be higher.
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Andrea, I shouldn't say this, but the fish profiles on here can sometimes be a bit off with the tank size. I prefer to use Seriously Fish (http://www.seriouslyfish.com/knowledge-base/), though it is sometimes a challenge to find the fish in question as they use the most up-to-date names. And I can't find clown plec on there as either a peckoltia or a panaque ??? The nearest I can find is this chap (http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/peckoltia-sp-l403/) which they say grows to 100 - 120cm and looks pretty similar to the clown plec on here and on planet catfish. If you look at that link, you'll find it recommends tanks with a footprint of 120 x 30cm.
Sometimes it is not a good idea to keep large and small fish together because the small fish feel intimidated by the presence of the big fish; or the big fish swims too fast for the small fish to cope with. Often the large fish will eat the small fish, but I wouldn't think that's the case here.
In Thinkfish's previous incarnation (the site had host problems a couple of years ago and had to move) there were three corydoras in the fish profile - dwarf cories, all given under salt & pepper; the slightly larger panda cories; and all the 2 inch ones lumped together under just 'corydoras'. For some reason, that last category vanished from the profiles during the move.
Temp - for fishless cycling, somewhere round the high 20's to 30 deg C. The bacteria multiply faster as these temps so the cycle goes quicker. Once it's completed, you then turn the heater down to what the fish need.
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Oh, okay I guess i will have to wait until I can get a bigger tank :( Thank you so much for looking for me though, I will make sure I double check the fish I don't know much about in future!
Does anyone have some quick planting tips for the tank? I'm looking to plant mine reasonably heavily but when I looked for ideas online I honestly couldn't work out how they created the looks I did like.
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Have you looked at http://tropica.com/ ? (By the way, what has happened to the English version of this site?).
Under "Inspirations" there are various designs, with the plants used and plans.
HOWEVER these aquascaped tanks require a huge amount of time and effort to maintain the look, trimming etc. at least weekly, sometimes every couple of days. Plants grow, they don't stay the same size for long. It's a lot of commitment, and most of these tanks have hardly any fish in. It's very difficult to have a fully stocked tank which also looks like a beautiful garden of plants. Anyone can plant a lawn, but very few can keep it looking like a bowling green.
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Have you looked at http://tropica.com/ ? (By the way, what has happened to the English version of this site?).
You have to click on the little UK flag at the top right - but some of it is still in German.
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Omg that's such a cool site! I'm not so worried about putting a lot of time into my tank because I tend to anyway, but I have absolutely no artistic flare so i need to be told exactly where to put stuff lol But thank you, I will definitely spend some time today having a look through it
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Yeah Tropica.com is good resource - I used it to get a feel for how certain plant varieties would (could!) look in a tank and picked out the ones I liked, before then narrowing my choices down to primarily those which were classed as easy to keep. I then bought the ones I wanted as stem plants off Ebay (which generally works out much cheaper than buying rooted plants from the shop).
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That's a fantastic idea :) I'll definitely see if that's possible to do here. Thank you so much everybody :)