Starting A New Tank

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Offline Sue

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Re: Starting A New Tank
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2017, 03:59:52 PM »
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When I did a fishless cycle last year it took 4 weeks to see a srop in ammonia  :-\

Offline Baz

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Re: Starting A New Tank
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2017, 09:24:52 AM »
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Hi,

I am now in to the third week of a fishless cycle. My readings from the tank are as follows: -

GH = 9
KH = 7
Ph = 6.5 (approx.) Bog wood & Mopani in tank
Ammonia = 0 (after 6 - 8hrs)
Nitrite = 5+
Nitrate = 80+

I am adding 2 - 3ml of ammonia each day which is rapidly being dealt with in about 6 - 8hrs. My questions are, should I keep feeding the ammonia, should I do any water changes to lower the nitrite and nitrates, or is everything going as it should?



A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Harlequin Rasbora (12) - Cherry Barb (12) - Rosy Tetra (2) - Fiveband Barb (8) - Rosy Tetra (8) - Harlequin Rasbora (8) - White Cloud Mountain Minnow (10) - Pearl Danio (16) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Paddyc

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Re: Starting A New Tank
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2017, 12:37:50 PM »
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Unfortunately your cycle is still not complete until both ammonia and nitrIte both drop to zero within 24 hours of adding a full dose of ammonia.

But on the upside the cycle seems to be moving along nicely, ammonia eaters always develop quicker than the nitrite eaters due to the nitrogen cycle process.

Not long now! Nearly fishy time!  8)

Offline Baz

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Re: Starting A New Tank
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2017, 01:34:15 PM »
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Thanks Paddyc,

I realised the cycle was not complete, but my concern was / is, that the cycle had "stalled" possibly due to the "lower" Ph and obviously high nitrite and if I should make a water change and or stop adding ammonia?

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Harlequin Rasbora (12) - Cherry Barb (12) - Rosy Tetra (2) - Fiveband Barb (8) - Rosy Tetra (8) - Harlequin Rasbora (8) - White Cloud Mountain Minnow (10) - Pearl Danio (16) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Starting A New Tank
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2017, 02:14:49 PM »
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Stop adding ammonia. Adding it daily will push the nitrite up so high it'll inhibit the nitrite eaters and stall the cycle.

If you read the method written up on here, you only add ammonia sparingly until nitrite drops below 1.0. You are at the stage where you test every 2 days and if you get zero ammonia after the first second-day test, then zero again 2 days later, add enough ammonia to give 1ppm. You carry on like this, testing every 2 days and only adding 1 ppm ammonia every 4th day until nitrite drops below 1.0 ppm.

If you've been adding ammonia every day your nitrite could be sky high. 15 ppm is where it inhibits the nitrite eaters.
I would do a dilution test. It won't be terribly accurate because that needs pure water and very accurate measuring equipment, but it will give you an indication. Mix 1 part tank water with 9 parts tap water ( a 1 in 10 dilution) and test that for nitrite. If the reading is below 5, multiply it by 10 to see what your nitrite level really is. If it works out at over 15 ppm, do a big water change to get the tank nitrite down to somewhere on the scale, add 3 ppm ammonia and go from there, adding just 1 ppm ammonia every 4th day till the nitrite reading drops. If the dilution test is  also off the sclae (ie over 5) that means your tank nitrite is over 50 ppm!
If by any chance the dilution test gives a reading at 1 or below (ie undiluted 10 or below) you won't need to do a water change, but still add 1 ppm ammonia every 4th day until the nitrite reading from the tank is below 1.0.



I also notice that your pH is low. This will also slow down the rate at which the bacteria multiply - they like it in the high 7s. How do you feel about removing the wood until the cycle has finished?

Offline Baz

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Re: Starting A New Tank
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2017, 02:35:40 PM »
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Sue,

Thanks for your reply. I will attempt to carry out your "dilution" instructions regarding the Nitrite test. When you say "If the reading is below 5" do you mean below 5 on the "API colour chart"?
I have no issue in removing the wood from the tank to complete the cycle.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Harlequin Rasbora (12) - Cherry Barb (12) - Rosy Tetra (2) - Fiveband Barb (8) - Rosy Tetra (8) - Harlequin Rasbora (8) - White Cloud Mountain Minnow (10) - Pearl Danio (16) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Starting A New Tank
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2017, 02:45:14 PM »
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Yes, if the 1 in 10 diluted water gives a reading below 5 on the scale, you can mulitply it by 10 to see what undiluted tank water would be if the scale went high enough. If the diluted water is still over 5, you'll know that undiluted tank water is over 50 ppm and you'll need to do a big water change to reduce that amount down to something sensible - that is, well below 15 ppm.

Basically, if the diluted tank water shows more than 1.5, the undiluted tank nitrite is over 15 - above stall point. You need to do a water change to get undiluted tank water way under 15, preferably under 5.
If after a water change undiluted tank nitrite is still above 5, do another water change until it is somewhere on the scale. Then add 3 ppm ammonia and go from there,testing every 2 days and adding 1 ppm ammonia every 4th day till you get under 1 ppm nitrite

Offline Baz

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Re: Starting A New Tank
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2017, 03:08:32 PM »
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Sue,

Once again thanks for your help, I'll give it a go and hope everything turns out okay.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Harlequin Rasbora (12) - Cherry Barb (12) - Rosy Tetra (2) - Fiveband Barb (8) - Rosy Tetra (8) - Harlequin Rasbora (8) - White Cloud Mountain Minnow (10) - Pearl Danio (16) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Paddyc

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Re: Starting A New Tank
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2017, 08:37:31 PM »
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I encountered a stalled nitrite cycle when cycling my spare tank, a big water change (over 50%) sorted it out and the nitrite readings dropped in the following week. Best of luck  ;)

Offline Baz

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Re: Starting A New Tank
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2017, 11:09:11 PM »
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Sue,

I have just finished carrying out your instructions. I determined that the nitrite levels were over 1.5 albeit subjective as you say, but, erred on the side of caution and did a water change of 80 litres and removed the "wood". Testing the tank water about 1 hour after the water change the readings are as follows: -

Ph = 7.4 approx. (more blue than green)
Nitrite = 0.25 - 0.5 (very light purple)

I then added 3ml of ammonia which gave a reading of 3+ppm.
I will now test again in two days (Thursday eve). If the ammonia is zero and the nitrite test indicates more than 1ppm on Thursday I add the 1ppm of ammonia, yes? If it is lower than 1ppm I add 3ppm and test 24 hrs later. If after 24hrs either the ammonia or nitrite is above 1ppm do I still add 1ppm of ammonia or not?

Again, thank you for your help.



A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Harlequin Rasbora (12) - Cherry Barb (12) - Rosy Tetra (2) - Fiveband Barb (8) - Rosy Tetra (8) - Harlequin Rasbora (8) - White Cloud Mountain Minnow (10) - Pearl Danio (16) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Starting A New Tank
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2017, 11:34:47 AM »
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Not quite  :)

Test on Thursday then again on Saturday. If on both those days, ammonia is zero and nitrite above 1.0, add a 1 ppm dose on Saturday. Then test again on Monday and Wednesday, and if nitrite is still over 1 ppm, add another 1 ppm dose ammonia on Wednesday.
However, if on any day you have zero ammonia and nitrite below 1.0 add 3 ppm ammonia and test next day. Then go from #12 in the method on here.

Until nitrite drops below 1.0, only add ammonia every 4th day. Once it drops below that number, you can move on even if it's only 2 days since the last addition of 1 ppm ammonia.

Offline Baz

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Re: Starting A New Tank
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2017, 11:41:10 AM »
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Sue,

Thank you, I will follow your instructions and report back as to the progress.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Harlequin Rasbora (12) - Cherry Barb (12) - Rosy Tetra (2) - Fiveband Barb (8) - Rosy Tetra (8) - Harlequin Rasbora (8) - White Cloud Mountain Minnow (10) - Pearl Danio (16) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Baz

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Re: Starting A New Tank
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2017, 12:50:47 PM »
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Sue,

I have just done a "curiosity check" and found the ammonia level at zero and the nitrite level at zero? Should I still wait until tomorrow to test and add ammonia as required?

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Harlequin Rasbora (12) - Cherry Barb (12) - Rosy Tetra (2) - Fiveband Barb (8) - Rosy Tetra (8) - Harlequin Rasbora (8) - White Cloud Mountain Minnow (10) - Pearl Danio (16) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Starting A New Tank
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2017, 02:29:40 PM »
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So you have zero ammonia and zero nitrite in more or less 12 hours after adding 3 ppm ammonia?

I think I'd test again tomorrow just to be on the safe side, and if they are both zero again, add another 3 ppm dose of ammonia. If they are both zero again after 24 hours, the tank is cycled.


It could be that you had enough nitrite eaters to remove the nitrite made from 3 ppm ammonia, but because you'd added a lot of ammonia while the bacteria grew, there was a back-log of nitrite and they were still working their way through it all and hadn't yet got it down. Then you removed a lot of nitrite with a water change and added just 3 ppm ammonia and there are enough nitrite eaters to deal with just the nitrite made from that ammonia.


The fact that your nitrate a few posts ago was over 80 meant that you had a fair number of nitrite eaters making nitrate; it was just a question of how many nitrite eaters and whether nitrite had got high enough to stop them multiplying more.

Offline Baz

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Re: Starting A New Tank
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2017, 02:42:00 PM »
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Sue,

Okay, I shall not do anything, other than testing. If tomorrow both the readings are zero I will add 3ppm of ammonia and test again 24hrs later.
If the tank proves to be "cycled" can I continue with a "maintenance dose 1ppm" of ammonia until I get chance to do a complete water change and go to the LFS to purchase some fish?

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Harlequin Rasbora (12) - Cherry Barb (12) - Rosy Tetra (2) - Fiveband Barb (8) - Rosy Tetra (8) - Harlequin Rasbora (8) - White Cloud Mountain Minnow (10) - Pearl Danio (16) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Sue

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Re: Starting A New Tank
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2017, 02:59:06 PM »
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Once the tank is confirmed cycled, a 1 ppm dose every 2nd or 3rd day will keep the bacteria fed. Then do a big water change to get rid of all the nitrate that cycling has made either just before you go fish shopping, or the day before.

Offline Baz

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Re: Starting A New Tank
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2017, 03:06:40 PM »
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Sue,

Okay, thanks for the confirmation of my previous post. I will post the outcome of the tests / results.

Looking forward to getting some fish in the tank ;D

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Harlequin Rasbora (12) - Cherry Barb (12) - Rosy Tetra (2) - Fiveband Barb (8) - Rosy Tetra (8) - Harlequin Rasbora (8) - White Cloud Mountain Minnow (10) - Pearl Danio (16) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Paddyc

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Re: Starting A New Tank
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2017, 09:54:15 PM »
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Hoping for double zeros tomorrow!  :cheers:

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Starting A New Tank
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2017, 07:56:04 AM »
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This is getting very exciting.
Fingers crossed for double zeros and a visit to the fish store.  ;D

Offline Baz

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Re: Starting A New Tank
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2017, 10:20:48 AM »
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Checks this morning were Ammonia zero and Nitrite zero. Added 3ml of ammonia and will check again tomorrow morning :D

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Harlequin Rasbora (12) - Cherry Barb (12) - Rosy Tetra (2) - Fiveband Barb (8) - Rosy Tetra (8) - Harlequin Rasbora (8) - White Cloud Mountain Minnow (10) - Pearl Danio (16) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


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