Some Questions

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Offline Sue

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Re: some questions
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2013, 04:58:23 PM »
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It's the other way round. Looking at your pic, the male is on the left in front of the wood, the female on the right. The way most people use is in a male the anal fin (the one just in front of the tail on the underneath) is long enough to reach past the start of the tail fin but with females it only just reaches to the start of the tail fin. The ram on the left also looks like the edges of the tail trail longer than the rest of the tail fin and the back edge of the fin on its back look pointy.
My old pair are in the pics. These were taken about half an hour before they laid eggs so the female's breeding tube is much bigger than normal. You can see the red on the male's tail sticks out past the middle of the tail, but in the female they are the same as the rest of the tail. The fins under the gills go to a long point in the male but they are rounded in the female. The fin in front of the tail goes past where the body ends and the tail find starts in the male but in the female that fin stops where the body stops. The male's head also has a bit of a bump over his eyes but the femae's is a lot smoother.



Hmmm..... just trying to work out why the photos won't magnify. Hold on a minute.

Offline george

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Re: some questions
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2013, 05:35:32 PM »
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well obviously i believe you so the person who said otherwise must be wrong

click this link sue this is were i saw the info, i got it from the google search but its someone saying whats male and female and as you explain is wrong obviously http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=237629


i am gonna take a picture of the 2 pair in a sec as i still cant think which is which but will look at the anal fin aswell, so the top fin on its back near the back end of the ram if its higher and pointy than the front its male too? and if the tail of the ram has longer extension its a male yes?,

i guess you missed the above stuff i mentioned too about the other fish? or you just have not got to that stage yet? if its too much or i ask to much could you suggest another forum to use aswell as this please as i dont wanna be askin too much if its a problem sorry

Offline george

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Re: some questions
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2013, 05:52:14 PM »
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#Invalid YouTube Link include https#

this is the clip i took yesterday dunno why its on its side i couldnt rotate it on youtube options

Offline Sue

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Re: some questions
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2013, 08:55:51 PM »
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I'll try again with my photos. I know which is which because they spawned within minutes of taking the photos, and that's why the female's spawning tube is so much bigger than normal.

Offline george

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Re: some questions
« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2013, 09:10:57 PM »
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showing you pictures and clips of the rams and also one clip shows ya exactly what i mean about how 1 of the singles gets chased by the others

i believe this one is a male this is one of the single ones


this is the one that gets chased by the others but i am not sure if its male or female i think it may be female as the anal fin doesnt go back the tail so i guess i am right? or am i not?


now these are the pair FEMALE


MALE


now here are the clips of the rams

#Invalid YouTube Link include https#

#Invalid YouTube Link include https#



Offline Sue

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Re: some questions
« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2013, 09:19:40 PM »
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And back to the other stuff. I was in the middle of typing before when my husband got home so I had to leave it and go and cook dinner.

The pics of the white on those tetras looks normal. There is variation in colour in fish the same as with humans. As long as your fish's white fin tips look like those there is nothing to worry about.

The white spots - if it looks like the fish have had salt shaken over them it's whitespot. Bacterial infections look like greyish white patches. Fungus often has white strings coming out of white patches.

I have had a pair of apistos and a pair of bolivians in my tank at the same time, but your bolivians sound a bit more territorial than mine were.
Cockatoo apistos - mature males are easy as they have very long rays at the front of the fin on their backs. Females are a bit trickier because this type of apisto has males that pretend to be females to avoid being attacked by the dominant male (called sleeper males). I kept what I thought was 1m 2f from the eggs that hatched last year. Two of them went bright yellow when they were excited (when I fed them  ;D ) which is typical female but one turned out to be a male - he suddenly grew the long fin rays and changed colour.
The other common apistos are agassizis. They are easier to tell the sexes except for the fire red colour. Again the males have long rays in the fin on the back though not as big as cockatoo males. And yellow bodied ones should be females. Agassizis don't have the reputation for sleeper males.


Yes, those pics do look like what you label them as. The first one has what looks like a male's breeding tube. The second one is a bit more difficult to say but I think I can see a female breeding tube. The third oned  definitely has a female breeding tube. I can't see a breeding tube on the last one but its fins look male.
Do your rams have a stone or something flat to lay their eggs on? Mine always chose a flat rock.

Offline george

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Re: some questions
« Reply #46 on: October 04, 2013, 10:25:52 PM »
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yes you can see the pebble on the last 2 pictures they are above it lol, i also have another one on the other side of the tank

the white dots on the rummies are so small so the fins are so small its hard to tell if its like salt but they are only on the dorsal fin so far thing is they werent there days ago so its got to be something, what would you think it is ? pointless trying to take a picture as it will be too hard lol


if you think its white spot or something the i could get meds tomorrow if theres a good one you suggest in MA i will get it if not i will have to order it i am going MA tomorrow to take the 2 rams back and keep the pair, i just hope the pair dont turn on eachother if so i will get rid of them aswell, had probs with the rams before the last one on the picks was the first ram i ever got aswell as another one but i had to give that to my mums fella and it ended up dying or had something up with it so had to put it down this was years ago so hard to remember but i know he was aggressive and always has been so i ended up getting 2 more rams aswell as taking my mums fellas one which was getting bullied so now i have 4, but looks like i have to go back to 2 now, i just hope the pair will stay ok if not i will get rid of them aswell and get apistos or kribs i dunno hopefully the rams will be ok because i like them i also like the kribs and apistos but i have had the rams from day one or one of the 3 so would be crap to get rid of them all


just another thing is it ok to give the fish cucumber is its not been open but past its sell by date? i forgot all about it in the fridge

Offline george

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Re: some questions
« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2013, 11:07:53 AM »
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Just took my 2 rams back got a credit note, the dummies do look like grain of salt on the dorsal fun and one glow light has a dot now on its anal fin I think, i am in the cafe now so gonna get white spot med I think but you still think the white on the rummys anal fins not another problem no ?

Offline Sue

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Re: some questions
« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2013, 12:33:53 PM »
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You have shrimps and snails don't you?

I found that King British Original Formula WS3 (not their whitespot control) used at half dose did not kill my amano shrimp. When I got whitespot from not quarantining new fish I couldn't catch the shrimp so I has no choice but add the med with them there. I had to use half dose because I have loaches and the shrimps survived that amount. They did hide while the med was in but they came back out after it was removed.
Snails are a different matter, but they are much easier to catch than shrimps. You'll need to remove them. Put them in a tub of dechlorinated water somewhere warmish (the same temp as the tank if possible) and change the water every day. Make sure the tub has a lid with air holes in it or they'll climb out.

Edit because I forgot - before you put the snails back you'll need to remove all the med. Do a big water change once the treatment has finished then put some carbon in your filter, wait a couple of days and put a new batch in, then again a couple of days after that. Three batches of carbon should get rid of the med.


I got a credit note when I rehomed my two rams then the shop closed 2 weeks later before I had chance to spend it  :(

Offline george

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Re: some questions
« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2013, 12:55:46 PM »
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Outside the shop now not sure what you mean when you say not their white spot control ? Is it white spot mess I need ? The One you suggested in your post then ?

Offline Sue

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Re: some questions
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2013, 03:27:47 PM »
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Sorry george, been sorting out the freezer not on my computer.

What I meant was that King British make 2 whitespot meds but I've only used one of them. I know that one doesn't kill amano shrimps at half dose but I don't know about the other one, or any different brand. They may kill amanos I don't know because I haven't used them. One King British med is called original formula ws3, the other is called whitespot control. It's the orig form ws3 that I have used.

Offline george

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Re: some questions
« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2013, 07:36:25 PM »
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ok thanks, the shop didnt have it so gonna order it later from ebay or amazon, will post a picture first to see if its the right one, i got the carbon aswell 2 big bags i got, didnt know how many i had to put in after i have treated the tank, do i use all the bottle up yes when i get it? also what ml am i gonna need ?

i got a toothbrush today so is it ok put wood in the tank tomorrow ? the wood has been sitting in the same water now for nearly a week i think do i need to empty and put 1 kettle worth of hot water over eachone once or is it to just go straight in once i have scrubbed the white stuff off? i will try and get in the cracks with a knife aswell if needs must,

tank seems empty a little bit with the neons and rams gone now bit sad about the rams as that was there home for a long time and now there in some small little tank with the other rams good thing is they arnt alone and they are with there other rams and hopefully both go to seperate good new homes


just another thing i was thinking about the possibility of getting a Red Tail Black Shark or Ruby Shark ? as i think thats all MA stock i think but if not what other shark possibilitys could i get besides the bala shark because they go quite big i think? obviously wont be getting fish until the disease in tank has gone,


i may see if my mums fella can have my shrimps while the meds are in or could they go in my sisters tank which  is cold water?


i also got a £11 credit note to use when i need to aswell which i got for my rams which was good as i thought they wouldnt give me the full price i paid for the rams


edited

http://www.amazon.co.uk/King-British-Original-White-Spot/dp/B008OGKAS4/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380998527&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=King+British+Original+Formula+WS3

thats the right one isnt it, i know it is but just posting to be sure anyway, i am also getting 3 50ml bottles, as i am not sure if one 50ml will do or what do you think?

Offline Sue

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Re: some questions
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2013, 07:50:33 PM »
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I only got half price for my rams!

this is th one I used, but if you can catch all your shrimps and put them somewhere out of the tank (like your mums fella's tank) you can use any whitespot med. It's just that I already had that one in the cupboard and I just couldn't catch the shrimps so they had to take their chance. I was very surprised when they didn't die.Iif you do get that one, you add 1ml for every 90 litres water. You add it every 48 hours while there are spots on the fish and also 48 hours after the spots have gone. Raise the temp to nealry 30 deg during treatment as it makes the bugs lifecycle go faster. It does say that some cases of whitespot need to be treated for up to 2 weeks. It is quite concentrated so a small bottle goes a long way.

I don't know very much about sharks, either the red tailed black shark or the rainbow shark (which has all red fins not just the tail) I know a lot of people say not to get anything with shark in the name because the get nasty as they get older.


If the wood doesn't colur the soaking water too badly, put it in whenever yuo want to rearrange your tank.

Offline george

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Re: some questions
« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2013, 11:42:11 PM »
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my mums fella would take the shrimp but only if the shrimp wouldnt carry any whitespot from my tank into his? so if do put them in his tank and they wouldnt give his tank white spot shall i still get the white spot med you mentioned if not which is the best white spot med ? i may give the wood another soaking for a day or 2 then put it in the tank, does it still have to be filled with boiling water wont it crack the wood if its done too much or will it be fine?

thanks


edit my local fish shop i think had interpet stuff so it might have the interpet anti white spot med, is that a good one?  if so that saves me waiting days for the king british one to come if i was to order it instead i could possibly see if i can get a lift to get the interpet anti white spot one tomorrow

edit again did some searching and the interpet anti white spot seems to have good things about it so may get that if the shrimp can go to my mums fellas tank if the shrimp wont carry over the disease to his tank

Offline Sue

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Re: some questions
« Reply #54 on: October 06, 2013, 12:47:12 PM »
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The interpet med is fine, I just don't know if it will kill your shrimps.

There is a risk of passing whitespot to your mum's fella's tank. The shrimps themselves won't be infected; it's down to the way this bug lives. The first stage is on the fish where it eats the fish's body. You can see it as the spot because it has a coating over it which stops the med getting at it. In this stage there is no risk of infection. The second stage is where it falls off and sits inside its coating on the bottom of the tank, the decor etc and multplies. Again the med can't get at it but there is a risk of you getting some of these cysts when you catch the shrimp especially if they are hard to catch and you have to chase them. The last stage is where the cysts break open and the tiny bugs swim off looking for a fish to infect. This is the stage it can be killed, but you could also catch some along with the shrimp. You can only see the stage where it's on the fish but there will be some in the other stages in your tank as well.
I don't know what to say for the best. You need to get some med in there asap. But if you put the shrimps in another tank you could infect that one. I don't know if the shrimps would survive in a tub of water that has a daily water change - I know snails will as I've done it. The only other choice is to leave the shrimps there and use the interpet med and risk the shrimp dying. Maybe catch the shrimps, put them in some tank temp dechlorinated water, leave them an hour, get rid of the water and put them in some more dechor water. Do this in two or three lots of clean water and hopefull that will wash away any stage 2 or 3 bugs then give them to your mum's fella. Though I'm not sure how the shrimps would cope. But if you leave them in the tank, that could be worse.

Offline george

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Re: some questions
« Reply #55 on: October 06, 2013, 02:17:48 PM »
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Thinly may be best to put the shrimp down there and I am only gonna catch the big snails and leave the others Honda try get the mess today

Offline george

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Re: some questions
« Reply #56 on: October 06, 2013, 02:30:43 PM »
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Can't m to notice the white dots on rummys fin the big one on its back can't think what it's called now but I think I can see one dot in one of there heads but sometimes their skin shines and looks like they have white on them also the anal fun on one rummy has got worse could it be just fin rot ? But I definitely did see white fits on the big fins on it's back on some rummys  Also on one rummie there's decolouration on the tail the black has faded

Offline george

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Re: some questions
« Reply #57 on: October 06, 2013, 03:18:29 PM »
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This one rummy who's tail is faded from what should be black and white when another rummy goes over to it it gets nipped and this is the one who's anal fin has got worse and has more ters in it it also straightens all of its fins and and swims diagonal not swimming fast it's like it leans diagonal

Offline george

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Re: some questions
« Reply #58 on: October 06, 2013, 03:25:55 PM »
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Also I can see dots on one of the rummys pelvicfins sort for not keep all messages I one whole
One I am on phone and just updating everything as I notice it

Offline Sue

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Re: some questions
« Reply #59 on: October 06, 2013, 04:08:09 PM »
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try the med with the shrimps but be on the lookout in case they die then you can remove them straight away.

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