Tropical Fish Forum

Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => New Fishkeepers => Topic started by: Joolia on November 08, 2018, 08:24:49 PM

Title: Should I do Filter or water changes during fishless cycling?
Post by: Joolia on November 08, 2018, 08:24:49 PM
I'm setting up a new aquarium with brand new filter media and have just begun a fishless cycle.

Please can someone confirm for me whether I should conduct any filter or water changes whilst the tank is cycling.

It's a 180 litre tank which I've planted quite heavily, otherwise there's nothing in it - apart from ammonia and now some nitrite!

Thank you! :fishy1:
Title: Re: Should I do Filter or water changes during fishless cycling?
Post by: Sue on November 08, 2018, 08:33:39 PM
Having just read the other thread - do you have any other tanks at the moment? If you do, you can speed up the cycle enormously be stealing some media from a mature tank. It is safe to take up to a third of the media from an established tank.



To answer your question, during a fishless cycle using ammonia solution you do not need to either clean the media or do a water change, with a couple of exceptions.

If the media becomes clogged with something, then yes, clean it. Very carefully as the bacteria will not yet have a fully established biofilm.
If the pH crashes off the bottom of the scale, you will need to do a water change to replenish KH. This only happens with very low KH, which usually goes with very soft water.
If you accidentally overdose ammonia, you will need to do a water change to get it back down to 3 ppm.

Otherwise, you won't need to do water changes or filter cleans until the cycle has finished. Before getting transferring fish from the old tank you will need to do a very large water change to remove all the nitrate you have just been making.



Title: Re: Should I do Filter or water changes during fishless cycling?
Post by: Joolia on November 08, 2018, 08:35:30 PM
Thanks Sue, that's really helpful.

I daren't use the old media - as the tank is full of all sorts of stuff that I'd rather not transfer to be honest!
Title: Re: Should I do Filter or water changes during fishless cycling?
Post by: Sue on November 08, 2018, 08:45:18 PM
I see in the other thread that your new tank is a Juwel Rio. Just a heads up on Juwel media:
You don't need the black sponge as carbon is not needed full time.
The green sponge doesn't work at removing nitrate. Treat it like a blue sponge.
The white pads clog quickly as they are first in the direction of water flow to catch the debris. They don't wash well, as they go into holes quickly. Rather than buy expensive Juwel pads, get a length of filter wool/filter floss from a roll and use a white Juwel pad as a template to cut it up.

And ignore what Juwel say about replacing sponges - though you probably already know that  :)
Title: Re: Should I do Filter or water changes during fishless cycling?
Post by: Joolia on November 08, 2018, 09:18:00 PM
That's brilliant advice! Thank you... I didn't know that already, no, so you've just saved me a fortune!  ;D
Title: Re: Should I do Filter or water changes during fishless cycling?
Post by: Sue on November 08, 2018, 10:05:52 PM
Most filter manufacturers tell you to change the media every few weeks or months. This only actually applies to carbon, but then you don't need to use that full time anyway. Just keep a carbon sponge or granules in the cupboard to remove medication after treatment has finished if the fish ever get sick.

Sponges should be squeezed in water you take out during a water change until they go into holes or won't go back to shape. Ceramic media should be swooshed in old tank water till it starts to crumble.
They only want you to buy new media so it makes them more money.
Title: Re: Should I do Filter or water changes during fishless cycling?
Post by: Joolia on November 15, 2018, 09:19:24 PM
Tank update - the cycling's started well, and my ammonia is already down to 0 (day three of 0)... topped back up to 3 ppm with ammonia every day... and now my nitrites are going crazy. I've also tested the nitrate and that's high as well.

However - why is there always a however?  :)) - my tank is now getting algae. Should I just leave it until the tank's finished cycling, or do I need to take action?

The tank's quite heavily planted (which I now understand may not have been such a good idea prior to cycling), but I'm feeding fertiliser and CO2 every day.

I've also tested the nitrate in my tap water and there's barely a trace.

May I trouble my new fishy friends for your thoughts please! I'd rather not finish my cycling with a tank thick with algae!
Title: Re: Should I do Filter or water changes during fishless cycling?
Post by: Sue on November 15, 2018, 09:42:17 PM
Are the plants growing very well? If they are, I would suggest doing a big water change to get rid of the nitrite and buy the first batch of fish. Monitor both ammonia and nitrite to make sure they stay at zero., and do a water change if they show above zero.

Plants prefer ammonia as their food source. They will use nitrate and also nitrite to some extent, but they have to convert them back to ammonia to assimilate them. If there are plenty well growing plants, they should use most of the ammonia - and they don't turn it into nitrite. This is called a silent cycle. It does, however, mean that you have to add fish in batches, and only add the next once when you are sure that ammonia and nitrite aren't going to show up after the last addition.


The nitrate test also measures nitrite, so if nitrite is high, the nitrate test will show a higher reading than the actual level of nitrate.
Title: Re: Should I do Filter or water changes during fishless cycling?
Post by: Joolia on November 16, 2018, 08:25:56 PM
Yes, the plants seem to be thriving and they've all got new leaves and shoots and roots since I set the tank up two weeks ago.

I shall follow your advice, thank you and add some fish after a big water change over the weekend... I just need to decide who my 'volunteers' are going to be!  ???
Title: Re: Should I do Filter or water changes during fishless cycling?
Post by: Joolia on November 19, 2018, 06:47:26 PM
Well, my fishies remain unmoved.

I've carried out a 60% water change, but my Nitrite is still reading as 3.3.

My Ammonia remains 0 and the algae is thriving  :'(

I have, however, now taken one of the blue filters from my old tank to see if this will help.

Is there anything else I can do, or shall I just keep adding ammonia and try another water change in a few days?
Title: Re: Should I do Filter or water changes during fishless cycling?
Post by: Sue on November 19, 2018, 06:55:39 PM
Leave everything for now. The ammonia eaters will not starve for several days so don't add ammonia. The nitrite eaters in the old pad may well do the trick and drop the nitrite to zero.

Once the nitrite does reach zero, move a batch of fish across to the new tank, and measure ammonia and nitrite every day. If they stay at zero for a few days, move the next batch over, and test again.
I would say batch #1 the danios and lone X-ray; batch #2 the 5 bands and lone tiger barb; then if everything stays at zero, the algae eater, cichlid and cories together.

Then wait a few weeks before getting any more fish to let the tank stabilise and the plants grow some more.
Title: Re: Should I do Filter or water changes during fishless cycling?
Post by: Joolia on November 19, 2018, 07:30:36 PM
Brilliant, thanks Sue, I shall report back! :)
Title: Re: Should I do Filter or water changes during fishless cycling?
Post by: Joolia on December 03, 2018, 05:32:44 PM
 :fishy1: :fishy1: :fishy1: :fishy1: :fishy1:
Exciting news... my first fish are in!
Ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 5
I'm still a little clogged with algae, but it's definitely slowing down, and the plants are still thriving

I have put my five Danios in this evening, and they're now checking out their new home!  :)
Title: Re: Should I do Filter or water changes during fishless cycling?
Post by: Sue on December 03, 2018, 07:09:22 PM
That's good news  :)

You do realise we all expect photos once they have settled  ;D
Title: Re: Should I do Filter or water changes during fishless cycling?
Post by: Joolia on December 03, 2018, 08:04:25 PM
Absolutely!  ::)