Tropical Fish Forum

Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => New Fishkeepers => Topic started by: TopCookie on April 22, 2018, 10:40:14 AM

Title: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: TopCookie on April 22, 2018, 10:40:14 AM: A question that I hope you guys n gals might be able to help with...

My sand substrate started life as white sand, but over time it is getting darker and darker with distinct levels of colour difference going on, darker at the top and fading down to nearer the original colour...

The majority of the tank is pea gravel over a sub layer of John Innes #3 and I guess that's likely to have a large part in this equation, but bottom line is that I don't know... I see other folks' pictures with white or pale sand and they look to retain much of the original colour, so I'm a little curious and possibly even worried about what's happening with mine - especially as it might be something that needs addressing that I don't know about...?

This picture is when the tank was still very much in its infancy, but you can still start to see the change:

(https://imagez.to/i/vBG2kj3b.jpg)

This pic is more recent, but it has gone darker still since this:

(https://imagez.to/i/VAIU7byR.jpg)

Do I need to be worried and/or is there something I should be doing about it...? ???
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: daveyng on April 22, 2018, 12:07:26 PM: Looks like it’s on the glass. Possibly algae or biofilm. Could you try pushing something down between the glass and the sand to see if that’s the case.
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: Sue on April 22, 2018, 12:30:50 PM: I agree with daveyng, the dark next to the glass does look like algae. The edge of the sand is exposed to the light which will encourage algae to grow. i get that in my betta's tank which does not have a trim at the front so the whole depth of sand is exposed to light.

Dark patches will also occur under decor. These patches are due to anaerobic bacteria, an integral part of the tank's ecosystem. They grow under decor as water does not circulate well and becomes oxygen depleted - and anaerobic means 'no air'
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: TopCookie on April 22, 2018, 01:09:21 PM: Spot on guys...!!! Just popped something down there as suggested and it does indeed seem to be just at the glass contact area rather than throughout the sand...

Is this something I can leave be or should I be aiming to address it, and if so, do you have any good suggestions as to how's best to get rid of it...?
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: daveyng on April 22, 2018, 04:41:52 PM: I don't think there's any way of getting rid of it. I just go along the edge with a plastic scraper pushing it down between the substrate and glass to remove the algae/film when it gets unsightly.
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: Matt on April 22, 2018, 10:29:33 PM: You need to be very careful not to scratch the glass, one grain of sand getting caught in the wrong place will ruin the tank!

I have seen people use a credit card but I've no idea how good this is myself...
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: TopCookie on April 22, 2018, 11:20:24 PM: Thanks for the advice guys... For the now, I'll leave it be I think... Definitely don't wanna mess the tank up - might arrange some sort of temporary cover so as to deprive that layer of light, maybe... :)
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: Sue on April 23, 2018, 10:21:03 AM: I use plastic plant labels to clear algae of the glass above the substrate. Anything with a nice flat edge would work including a credit card. But you would have to be very careful down the side of sand - as Matt says it scratches glass.
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: TopCookie on April 23, 2018, 10:52:36 AM: I do have a great tool for the uncovered glass, so that's not a problem as such: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tetra-Scraper-Floating-Handle-Aquarium/dp/B000S5JMXI/

But as you guys say, it's beneath the sand where the tricky part is...

I do vaguely recall reading once about a snail type that's supposed to be good for finding that layer of algae and will consume it... Probably Nerites at a guess...? My old memory could just as easily be playing tricks on me though...
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: Sue on April 23, 2018, 10:58:39 AM: I do have a snail that crawls on the glass down under the sand in just the place where your problem is. But I cannot say if it eats algae there because my sand is not very deep and the top of the sand is below the level of the trim so i can't see it.
I don't know if the snail in question is actually a nerite or not. it is the one in the first photo in this thread https://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/gallery-showcase/snail-photos/
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: TopCookie on April 23, 2018, 04:01:56 PM: That's the one labelled: "#1.JPG" presumably Sue...? I can't tell either - looks Nerite shaped but not colouring... I'll have to investigate more I think, as the temptation for a single Nerite is definitely there - it is the black ones I like, forgotten their proper name though... :)
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: Sue on April 23, 2018, 04:27:52 PM: Yes, that's the one :)
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: fcmf on April 23, 2018, 06:45:30 PM: Quote from: Sue on April 23, 2018, 10:58:39 AM
I don't know if the snail in question is actually a nerite or not. it is the one in the first photo in this thread https://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/gallery-showcase/snail-photos/
I recognise that possibly-nerite's colouring from being similar to https://www.pro-shrimp.co.uk/snails/1558-horned-nerite-snail-sun-clithon-corona.html. My nerite spends time in the location you and Sue describe - but I don't know whether or not he eats the algae, for the same reasons as Sue mentions.
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: TopCookie on April 23, 2018, 10:39:20 PM: @fcmf have you ever had problems with having to "rescue" Nerites after they've fallen over...?

Reason I ask is that on the one hand, I would like a single black Nerite: https://www.pro-shrimp.co.uk/snails/1555-black-helmet-nerite-snail-neritina-pulligera.html but on the other hand, most of my snails can go unseen for days at a time, which isn't a worry with the Rabbits or Faunus snails, but if I add a Nerite snail, it could potentially get "stuck" upside down in a spot in the tank that I cannot see and could cause a potential problem...
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: Sue on April 24, 2018, 11:13:51 AM: If the places you cannot see have lots of plants or other decor the snail will be able to turn itself back over. I would say they need something to grab hold of up to an inch away from the edge of the shell. If you have spots wider than 2 inches across with no plant etc, it may have trouble, though that increases to 3 inches for big snails as they they are about an inch across.
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: fcmf on April 24, 2018, 07:04:46 PM: Quote from: TopCookie on April 23, 2018, 10:39:20 PM
@fcmf have you ever had problems with having to "rescue" Nerites after they've fallen over...?

I've only ever had the one nerite. As mentioned in https://forums.thinkfish.co.uk/general-fishkeeping-chat/think-fish-keepers-daily-news/msg39597/#msg39597 #1146, this has happened a few times, probably about 6 times in 11 months. The first 4 or so times were all due to him doing acrobatics off the filter outflow nozzle or a piece of wood or misjudging a plant leaf's capacity for weight, but he's much more careful now and tests out plant leaves with his feelers beforehand while I rarely see him on the wood. The last 2 times have been due to him losing grip when sleeping at the top of the tank - the first time I thought due to my shadow passing in front of him and therefore a protective mechanism but the second time happened while I was eating breakfast at the weekend and can't be accounted for by anything. There are lots of areas without anything close by for him to grab so I can only assume he's somehow managed to rectify his position or it's not occurred other than those times I've witnessed it happening.
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: TopCookie on April 24, 2018, 10:53:51 PM: Well, it's official... 1 x Black Helmet Nerite Snail (Neritina pulligera) has been ordered...!!!

Chatting with a friend of mine earlier today and he was of the view that Nerites can right themselves if given enough time... So much so, that he no longer corrects his... Not 100% convinced that I'll have that same level of trust that they will do, but we shall see... :)
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: Matt on April 25, 2018, 11:18:09 PM: I think a fish will eventually do a bit of investigating of the upside down snail or will collide with it in a fight or whatever and this enables the snail to right itself.
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: TopCookie on April 25, 2018, 11:54:56 PM: Definitely a good chance of that happening with the four sizeable Corydoras that I have, who all tend to blunder about knowing that whatever gets in their path will move or be moved, lol... :D
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: TopCookie on April 26, 2018, 10:38:22 AM: He has arrived...!!! Lolol, and like a big kid that I am, I'm super excited... ;D

One Black Helmet Nerite Snail (Neritina pulligera) is in the house...!!! A little acclimation going on right now, but will be introduced to his new home shortly... :D
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: Matt on April 26, 2018, 06:09:59 PM: No prizes for guessing what I'm about to say...

PICTURES!!!!!
:raspberries
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: TopCookie on April 26, 2018, 06:22:31 PM: lol, do you know what Matt... I popped him directly on the sand when introducing him to the tank... He swiftly turned around and set off for the gravel...!!! I've not seen him since...!!! :rotfl:

Can't believe how fast they are, either...!!!
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: TopCookie on April 28, 2018, 05:50:53 PM: Still not seen the new Black Nerite since he took off across the gravel...!!! Starting to worry that he may have done a Houdini...!!! :o
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: Sue on April 28, 2018, 06:38:46 PM: They are extremely good at hiding. I never see all mine at once. Sometimes when I lift a piece of wood out for plant maintenance, a few minutes later there is a clunk as a snail falls off into the bucket.
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: fcmf on April 28, 2018, 07:01:43 PM: Mine regularly goes missing for 5 days at a time. Favourite locations are on/behind/under the filter, on the heater or under a leaf.
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: Matt on April 28, 2018, 07:27:30 PM: I have 3 assassin snails (ever since a bad batch of plants...grrr)... never seen more than 2 at once.
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: TopCookie on April 28, 2018, 11:39:27 PM: Both of the two large chunks of bogwood in my tank have holes in them that the fish swim through... The one on the left of the two has a distinct "cave" with several different entrances, and various critters like that place... The Amanos like it, so too do the Cory Cats and the Lemon BN Pleco etc... even the Tetras all swim through the cave occasionally... This is where I suspect Mr Black Helmet Nerite is hanging out, and there is almost certainly an embarrassment of riches in terms of appropriate food for him in there as there is zero chance of effectively cleaning inside the cave...!!! So, I can imagine that he's found this spot and having a major one man kneees up in there which could well last for days...!!! :rotfl:
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: TopCookie on April 30, 2018, 10:23:00 AM: Yay...!!! This morning, the Black Helmet Nerite has come into view, on top of one of the bogwood pieces... So, no "Houdini" job there, thankfully... :D Just need him to make his way down to the sand now, lolol... ::)
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: Littlefish on April 30, 2018, 10:37:26 AM: Hooray!
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: TopCookie on April 30, 2018, 10:42:15 AM: lolol, I am absolutely delighted too... Daft, innit, over a snail... ;D

(http://www.cdv-forum.com/Smileys/default/wavies.gif)
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: TopCookie on May 02, 2018, 03:04:24 PM: Well, since finally spotting Mr Black Helmet, he spends his entire time on the bog wood... I guess there must be plenty of bio-film for him there, as with the Lemon BN Pleco etc...

Can't wait for him to come down and potter about a bit more though...
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: Helen on May 02, 2018, 11:01:25 PM: It might not just be the biofilm they are eating. I'm pretty sure my bogwood is smaller than when I put it in the tank 8 years ago. I can see beautiful veins and ridges that weren't originally there. And I'm not aware of soggy bits falling off.

I've had snails or catfish nearly all that time.
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: fcmf on May 02, 2018, 11:09:12 PM: If he has been eating the wood, it'll make his next location easier to identify - follow the trail of very obvious snail poo!
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: TopCookie on May 03, 2018, 01:01:59 AM: He's being deliberately disobedient, I swear... ;D
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: daveyng on May 03, 2018, 05:43:01 PM: Doesn’t your Lemon BN Plec snack on the wood. I always assumed it was a neccessity for them.
Title: Re: Sand Changing Colour
Post by: TopCookie on May 03, 2018, 06:04:51 PM: Yes Dave, he's on there the bulk of the time... He's taken a shine to the one on the left of the two pieces, mostly... Occasionally you see him on the tank glass, or he'll rummage around on the floor of the tank too, especially if there are algae wafers and/or Cory tablets etc... But generally, he's on the wood, munching away, most of the time... :)