Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => New Fishkeepers => Topic started by: Trish on August 24, 2015, 08:37:50 AM
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Hi There,
I'm returning to fishkeeping after a break of over 20 years. I am very impressed at the way fish tanks have developed since I was away from the hobby. I only want a small tank this time round and I have been looking at the Interpet River Reef 94 litres. I like the fact that it is low cost LED lighting and that the filter is concealed.
I am thinking of stocking it with Harlequin Rasboras, Danios and Corydorus. However, I am worried that the water flow will be too strong for these fish. I would be grateful for opinions on this.
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Welcome back to the hobby. I'm not familiar with that particular tank and its filter. However, I have harlequin rasboras and pygmy corydoras, and both of them like playing in the water flow, and I'd imagine danios would like that even more.
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Hi, welcome to the site and back to fish keeping :wave:
I'm pleased to hear that you consider 94 litres to be a small tank :) It's almost 20 years since I started keeping fish, and I agree, tanks have come on greatly since then.
Looking at the manual for this tank, it does say the flow rate can be reduced on all the pumps before fitting them to allow you to customise water flow for your aquarium
The filter looks a nice one. One comment I would make is that in the 20 years since you last had fish, it has been realised that carbon is not necessary in a filter. The manual says the filter contains a carbon bag - leave that in the cupboard and either replace with sponge or ceramic noodles in a mesh bag or leave the space empty in case you ever do want to use the carbon bag. Carbon is only useful for removing medication after treatment has finished and the brown that comes out of bogwood.
What do you plan for the bottom of the tank? I ask because cories need smooth substrates and those as small as pygmies are better on sand, with its smaller grain size.
And I'd better ask - do you know about fishless cycling? It is much easier on the fish - and the fish keeper.
fishless cycling (http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,483.0.html)
cycling with fish (http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,17.0.html)
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Thanks very much for your replies.....it's very reassuring to be able to ask more experienced fish keepers opinions.
Thank you for the advice on removing the carbon, I was completely unaware of this and will remove it.
This is the gravel I plan to use, Sue
http://www.seapets.co.uk/products/aquarium-supplies/aquarium-ornaments-fish-tank-ornament/coloured-gravels/roman-coloured-aquarium-gravel/roman-gravel-jet-black-2k.html
It is small, resin coated and smooth. What do you think? I could of course, get sand. But I have never used it before and I am a little bit worried about cleaning it. However, if you think it is the better option, then I will go for it.
I have read about fishless cycling and agree that is the way to go. I never did like the older way of dumping fish into toxic water and hoping for the best. I used to end up as stressed as the fish. Lol!
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The main criterion for the substrate with cories is that the particles are smooth, and the link does look smooth. And with the smaller ones, the particles shouldn't be too big so that the fish can push them aside in search of food.
I had gravel for many years until a bolivian ram got a piece stuck in her throat. So I changed all my tanks to sand. It is not difficult to clean, you just have to learn the technique. The main downside is that the fish poo etc sits on top of it and is quite visible, unlike gravel where it falls down between the particles.
You don't say which species of cory you would like, but the smaller species would be a better choice for this tank (the 3 dwarf species - pygmaeus, habrosus and hastatus - or panda cories).
I have both habrosus and pygmy cories, and I've been watching them with a magnifying glass. The habrosus are like their larger cousins, they snuffle in the sand and it comes out of their gills. The pygmies tend to pick food off the surface of the sand and I haven't yet seen any sand coming out of their gills.
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Thanks again, Sue.
I have just placed my order and will get the tank tomorrow along with ammonia, API Master test Kit, gravel and buckets.
By the way, Panda Cories are the ones I am planning to get when the tank has eventually matured.
Looking forward to getting back into it all.
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Don't forget the siphon tube ;)
Let us know how you get on :)
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Just had a horrible thought. I live in Lancashire and there is a problem with the water. It is a bug called Cryptosperidium. Will it be OK to fill my tank using this water?
The water company has advised affected areas to boil the water. This has been going on now for 18 days and there is no sign of the ban being lifted.
Thanks in advance.
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Ahhhh.
In that case you need to fill the tank with cooled, boiled water. The last thing you want is to put your hands in potentially contaminated water. Or wait it out till your tapwater is safe again. Don't be tempted to use bottled water as that will have a different chemical composition from your tap water.
I have been wondering how fish keepers have been coping with this. I have three tanks and it would be a nightmare having to boil and cool enough water for all the water changes. Not to mention fish shops.......
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OK Sue, thanks once again. What a blooming nuisance boiling 94 litres of water! Oh Well.........one marathon tank filling episode to look forward to!
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One thing about fishless cycling, you shouldn't need to do a water change till the cycle is finished (usually a few weeks) so your water should be OK by then. Hopefully.
Another thought. Doesn't most of Lancashire have soft water? As someone brought up just outside St Helens, I seem to remember it being quite soft (though not currently in the cyptosporidium area so it is obviously from a different treatment works). You should be able to find out your hardness from United Utilities website. If it is quite soft, the KH of the water will also be low so you'll need to add some bicarbonate of soda during the cycling process. The big water change at the end will remove it before the fish go in.
The reason I bring it up is that if your KH is low you will be in danger of a pH crash during the cycle and may have to do a water change - and possibly have to boil a lot more water to do it. If you don't mind spending a few pounds to save any potential hassle, it might be safer to get a GH and KH testing kit. Or ask the nearest fish shop what the KH is - but don't tell them you are doing a fishless cycle as most shops don't believe in them!
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United Utilities say that the water is soft with Hardness Clark of 7.350. I have no idea what that means!
Looks like I will have to get a test kit. Any idea of how much Bi-Carb should be added?
Good job I found this site and you have been so very generous with your time and knowledge.
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That's round about the same as my hardness here in the north east. I would try and find the KH of your tapwater - but bear in mind I wouldn't like to mess around with your water straight from the tap and boiling does destroy some KH so if you test that it could well be lower than neat tapwater. But as you'll be boiling the water to fill the tank, you need to know how much KH you'll be left with for cycling. You can check your tapwater once it's safe.
The amount of bicarb will depend on the value of your KH. Once you know it, we can go from there. But you can still fill the tank and start the cycle.
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Thanks very much, Sue, for all your help. I will forge ahead with my plans to fill the tank and take it from there.
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Just to add, your hardness in degrees Clarke converts to 6 german degrees and around 105ppm. These two units are the ones you will see in fish profiles on sites like Seriously Fish (http://www.seriouslyfish.com/knowledge-base/), a very useful resource for researching species.
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Hi Sue, It's been a long time since I posted about setting up a new tank!
You may remember that at the time I wanted to set up, the water supply had a nasty bug?
I decided to wait until the water was OK again, instead of faffing around boiling up almost a 100 lt of water.
Anyway, it took weeks and weeks for the water to be given the all clear. Meanwhile, I decided to move house and postponed setting up the tank yet again.
I am only now in the process of cycling the tank. I filled it up on Sat. And put the first dose of ammonia in on Sun. (3 ppm).
I tested for ammonia and nitrite yesterday and had ammonia - 0.50 ppm and nitrite 0.00 ppm, and no discernible nitrates.
I did another test today and ammonia was - 0.25 ppm and nitrite still at 0.00 ppm, and had approx 1.5 ppm to 2 ppm of nitrates, bit hard to tell.
The only thing I did different was put in some filter start which came with the tank. I wouldn't have thought that it would make any difference. I am now a bit confused as to what I do now as the parameters I have don't correspond to the instructions for fishless cycling.
Do I put in another full dose of ammonia now or leave it until I test in a few days time and see what readings I get then?
Thanks for your help
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mmmmm - where's your Ammonia going then, I wonder? It's not being turned in to Nitrite.
Top up your Ammonia to 3ppm..... and it should stay there until it starts getting converted to Nitrite.
EDIT: Have you got a load of plants in the tank?
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Hi Colin, yes that was my first question..........where is the ammonia going? It's got to go somewhere!
I don't have any real plants, so that's not the answer. I'm mystified.
I'll redose the tank this evening and see what happens. Thanks for your help.
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In the absence of live plants, that would be my suggestion too - add another 3ppm ammonia.
Which brand of bottled bacteria did you use? If it worked, you should have an increase in nitrate. 1 ppm ammonia is converted to 2.7 ppm nitrite and on to 3.6 ppm nitrite. So if you added 3 ppm and the bottled bacteria worked, you should have 10 ppm nitrate more than the amount in your tap water.
There are some bottle bacteria products that contain the wrong bacteria, though it's usually the nitrite eaters as most of them do contain the right ammonia eaters. There is always the possibility that your brand contained a species of ammonia eaters that does not convert ammonia into nitrite. That's all I can think of :-\
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Hi Trish and welcome back into fish keeping. :wave:
I only joined towards the end of last year and I found the knowledge and experience available on this forum absolutely priceless.
Best of luck with cycling your tank and please keep us posted on your progress. :)
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Hi Sue, Thanks for your reply. I used Interpet Filter Start. I have only had a very small increase in nitrates. ( virtually zero to 1.5 maybe 2 ppm. I shall dose the tank with more ammonia, later this evening.
Don't know whether to continue with the Filter Start or leave it out. It's supposed to be added every 2 days over a fortnight.
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Thanks for your support Littlefish. I will definitely keep you posted. Nice to have people to share problems with.
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Since you have it, you may as well use it, though it may cause some odd readings. Even if it does have the wrong bacteria and it keeps the ammonia and/or nitrite levels low, there will be some to kick start the right bacteria. The 'wrong' species tend to function better at high concentrations so as the levels fall, the bacteria starve leaving the right ones to carry on.
But even if you get double zeros while using the filter start, don't get fish for several days after finishing the course to make sure the readings stay at zero without it.
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Hi everyone. I've been testing my tank water nearly every day, in the hope that the ammonia will have started to drop. But so far, it has stayed at 3 ppm. for almost 2 weeks now.
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
PH 7.3
KH 5dG........same as it comes out the tap
GH 10dG......same as it comes out the tap
I would have thought that I would have had a drop in ammonia by now, or am I being too impatient?
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best of luck
panda are delightful little fish!
:fishy1: :fishy1: :fishy1:
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I changed the filter in my betta's tank a few months ago and fishless cycled it first. The ammonia reading started to drop on day 28. And it was day 48 before I had double zero's after adding a full dose of ammonia. You just need to wait a bit longer.
Do you have any bicarbonate of soda in the cupboard? If you do (or go out and buy some) remove a bit of tank water and add bicarb at the rate of 1 x 5ml spoonful for every 25 litres water, dissolve in the bit of water and pour into the tank. That will boost your KH and hopefully help the cycle along. It will also increase the pH a bit. The filter bacteria multiply faster in higher pH, and they need a source or inorganic carbon - the bicarb. At the end of the cycle you will do a big water change which will remove the bicarb before you get fish.
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What temperature have you had the tank at during the cycle, @Trish?
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OK Sue, Thanks. I will get some Bi- carb and give it a go. Fingers crossed!
Hi paddy, I've got the temperature at 29/30 as I've read that the bacteria colonise quicker at higher temperature.
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That's ideal temperature so it's not that...
Do you know anyone who you could ask to donate some tank water for your tank? I used Tetra Safestart to initiate the cycle in my first tank. I am now cycling a second tank and the only sources of bacteria I have used are the tap water (which should have tiny amounts, if any bacteria in) and the waste water from my main tank (hoovered from the gravel)
It sounds counter-productive as it's dirty water but I have been cycling for two weeks and I have had ammonia at Zero already. I'll be testing tomorrow to see if yesterday's full ammonia dose has dropped...
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Unfortunately, paddy, I don't know anyone with a fish tank. I have heard good things about Tetra safestart, but I am undecided whether to use it or not.
When my tank arrived, it had sponges, polywool, carbon and ceramic hoops in it. I have removed the carbon and will be replacing it with more biological media. I could have just bought more ceramic hoops, but decided to go with Biohome Plus, which is made of sintered glass and has a large surface area. The product also comes with some bacteria encased in gel "balls".that go into the filter to help start the cycle.
Whilst I remain sceptical, I will try it and see what happens. This should arrive on Monday. At least when the bacteria start to multiply, there will be more for them to cling onto.........that's the theory anyway!
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Your scepticism on Safestart is justified. Just because it worked for me doesn't mean it will work for you. It all depends on the handling from the lab where it is produced to the shelf you pick it up from. Extremes of temperature render it useless. I bought two bottles, both from totally different vendors so hopefully different supply chains.
However I also used mature filter media donated from a friend so it's impossible to pinpoint the secret of my relative efficient cycle.
The Biohome should be a worthwhile purchase and I've heard good things about the bacteria gel balls... Definitely get those in when they arrive.
It's so frustrating waiting on your test tube colours to come down, we're all with you hoping it happens soon :)
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Thanks for the support, Paddy, much appreciated.
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I use the Biohome ultimate - it's good stuff. It's been in my tank for a couple of years and I have zero Nitrate.
Having said that, I have less than 5ppm in the tap water, but I have an overcrowded tank.
(https://eatsleeprunwine.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/patience-young-grasshopper.jpg)
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I used Tetra Safestart at the beginning too, and also tend to put a blob of it on new filter sponge on the rare occasion that I ever change that, with the new filter sponge in alongside mature filter sponge. I do think it helped / helps and I don't think it can do any harm.
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Hi everyone,
Just a quick update on my tank and a few questions.
No change in the water parameters all readings exactly the same as 3 weeks ago, when I first filled the tank (Sigh!)
Anyways, looking forward to when the tank has cycled, I have been daydreaming about what type of fish to get.
I want a peaceful tank and I am thinking of Cardinals, Harlequins and Corydoras in small shoals.
However, it would be nice to have a larger fish with a bit of character.
I like Angelfish, but presume that I can't have any in case they eat the others.
I would dearly love a Betta but opinions vary as to whether a Betta is suitable for a community.
Bolivian rams look gorgeous, but the community creator indicates that my tank is too small in length for one of those. It also says it's too small for Angelfish. :(
Though my tank is only 55 cm in length, it is also 55 cm deep and holds 94lt. I was wondering if this would actually be big enough, despite what the community creator recommends?
I would welcome suggestions from other more experienced members as to what would make a suitable fish.
Another question I have is about the large water change that has to be done once the tank has cycled and is ready for fish.
Am I right in saying that I can't use a hose to fill the tank, as the water would be too cold and damage the nitrifying bacteria? ( I don't have a combi boiler and know that I cant use water from the hot water tank.)
Lots of questions, I know, and thanks in advance for your help.
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Fishless cycling can take a while, I'm afraid. Mine took 7 weeks when I cycled a sponge filter for the betta's tank earlier this year. Your KH (you said 10 deg) is plenty high enough, though if that was done with a strip test it might be worth getting a shop to test a sample of your tap water (not tank).
I'm afraid the tank is too small for angelfish. The smallest recommended size is 100cm wide x 40cm front to back x 50cm tall. And Bolivian rams need a tank with a footprint at least 90 x 45 cm. Even allowing for your tank being square rather then rectangular, there still isn't a big enough footprint. Figures from Seriously Fish.
However, your tank is plenty big enough for a pair of apistogrammas; they need 60 x 30 cm minimum and your tank has a much bigger footprint than that. With bottom dwelling fish, it's the area of the tank base that is important rather than the length or height. Ignore the fact that the CC says the tank is too small; most 55 cm long tanks are only 30cm front to back, which is too small. The CC is programmed with standard tank shapes not square ones.
The hardiest and easiest to find in shops are cockatoo cichlids (Apistogramma cacatuoides) and Agassiz's apistos (A. agassizii) Both come in several colour patterns, though the females are always yellow. Because they are cave spawners, you would need caves of some sort, though they aren't fussy what they are made of - plastic ornaments, hollows in wood, even upside down terracotta plant pots with a hole cut in the rim. Even with just one female you'd need more than one cave to make them happy.
And your GH is fine for these apistos, though some of the rarer species need softer water (very soft!)
Read up on how to tell males from females.
You can use a hose to refill provided you add the dechlorinator for the full volume of the tank right at the start and add a few kettles of boiling water as the hose is trickling water in. Not too much hot water, you don't want to overdo it. If you can contrapt something to hold the hose so that you can leave it, then pour the kettle water into the stream of cold water coming out of the hose, that would take the chill of the new water. The tank doesn't need to end up at 25o as soon as the tank is filled, just warmer than cold water.
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Thanks Sue.
I have been looking at the fish you suggested and they look gorgeous. Just the type pf fish I was hoping to have.
I notice in the description of these fish, that the male is highly terratorial when breeding. Could this be a problem with the Corydoras?
Thanks for your tips on refilling the tank with a hose. I know it's not a big tank, but I am a 7st weakling with a touch of athritis and I had a hard enough time filling it up the first time round. A weekly water change won't be a problem as the tank is small.....one of the reasons I bought it. I would have loved something bigger but, this time round, I made sure my head ruled my heart! Last time I kept fish I had a bad caseof MTS and ended up with 4 tanks.
I will be getting the fish online from Kesgrave Tropicals, and will be putting them all in at once. Though, having been brought up on the old method of adding a few fish at a time, I feel quite nervous about it ;D
I feel nervous about getting the fish online too, but I don't have much choice in the matter as the only lfs I can get to easily, is P@H, and the fish they have are not in a good condition. The poor Bettas look particularly miserable.
Thanks again Sue, you have been a great help.
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I have kept apistos with loaches. In my experience the aggression is more from the female if they have spawned. Yes, they will chase fish that get too near the breeding site but none of mine ever actually made contact. They just swam straight at the intruder until it swam away.
Cories don't understand about territory which means they will wander back. But that is no worse than loaches which do understand about territory but can't resist a free meal when they see one :-\
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Hi all.
Just looking for a bit of encouragement, as I am now on day 35 with no drop in ammonia.
I've read that the ammonia to nitrite cycle can take even longer :-[
At this rate, I'll be lucky to have fish by Christmas,lol!
Wonder why the cycle hasn't even started yet? I'll wait until Monday, and if there is no movement, I might resort to Tetra Safestart.
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What was the water source you used to fill the tank Trish? And did you do anything to that water before it went into the tank?
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Hi Matt.
I used tapwater and a dechlorinator. A few weeks later, I added some "magic balls" that are supposed to have nitrifying bacteria, and I took Sue's advice and added bi-carb to bring up the PH and KH. The water parameters have stayed exactly the same all these weeks.
I know fishless cycling takes a while, and I was prepared for that, but I am surprised that the cycle hasn't even started, at all, after all this time.
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Meant to say that I had added ammonia to 3ppm. when I started the cycle on 5th June.
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That does seem a bit long. As you've added bicarb it shouldn't be due to lack of KH. But to double check, test the pH of the tank water and also the pH of a glass of water that has stood overnight. If the tank is a lot lower, that could be partly responsible.
If the pH is OK, try Tetra Safe Start but ignore it if it says it has to be used with fish. It doesn't.
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Hi Sue,
The water comes out the tap about 7.4 and doesn't change after standing. The water in the tank was also about 7.4. After adding the bi-carb, the PH came up to about 8.2 and the KH from 6dG to 10dG.
Looks like I'll have to get the Safestart, and hope that does the trick, if not, I don't know what else I can do.
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Is the pH still 8.2 in the tank? This is just to eliminate one possibility.
But I think TSS is the best option now, unless you know someone else who has a tank.
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Yeah still the same when I tested yesterday.
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Hi Trish,
I'd be more than happy to send you some mature media from one of my tanks. I'm sure that with some plastic packaging the bacteria will remain damp, and worst case scenario would go dormant, but be ok once back in a tank with a source of ammonia.
Obviously I wouldn't be able to send it until Monday, and I can't guarantee any of my tanks are totally pest snail free as I've been changing over to live plants in the tanks over the past few months, but if that's ok with you then just let me know.
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Hi Littlefish,.....apoligies for the late reply, I've only just got home after a family night out.
Thank you so much for your very kind offer. I bought some Tetra Safestart this afternoon and will dose the tank with it tomorrow. But if I don't have any joy with that, I would be very grateful to take you up on your offer.
Fingers crossed that the safestart works but if not it's nice to know I have another option. Thanks again.
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No problem. We all know how frustrating tank cycling can be.
I have quite a few tanks, so I always use mature media for new tanks, and it helps.
Best of luck with the safe start and let me know how you get on. :)
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Hi Littlefish,
I was just wondering if it would be a good idea to use your mature media as well as the Safestart, or would that be overkill?
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I'm not sure there is such a thing as overkill when it comes to mature media/tank cycling etc.
If you want me to send some just pm me your address and I'll sort it out tomorrow. :)
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PM sent
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It wouldn't be overkill, just belt and braces :)
If damp media was sealed into a plastic box - lots of tape round the join - it should survive a night or two in the post at this time of year. Once it arrives, float it in the tank or a tub of tank water while you open the filter. Replace some of your media with the mature; cut it up if necessary to make it fit. Then fill any spaces with the media you took out to make room.
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OK, Sue. Will do.
My tank has hidden compartments running along the back housing heater, pump and filter media.
The water passes through several types of mechanical filtration before clean water is then passed on to the biological filter.
As part of the mechanical filter is made up of coarse, medium and fine sponge, I was thinking of putting the media that Littlefish is sending me, somewhere in this compartment. Or I could put it on the top of the biological ceramic noodles. Don't think it would matter too much where it went?
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Put it first in the direction of water flow in the biofilter section. The reasoning is that any loose bits of biofilm will get washed into the uncolonised media and the bacteria will set up home there.
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Thanks Sue.
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Just to say a big thank you to Donna, for going to all the trouble of sending me some of her mature media. It arrived 10 mins ago, and I have put it in the tank.
Will hopefully, start the cycle now. :)
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Just to say a big thank you to Donna, for going to all the trouble of sending me some of her mature media. It arrived 10 mins ago, and I have put it in the tank.
Will hopefully, start the cycle now. :)
Awesome stuff. This is what the forum is all about 8)
Good luck for a nice speedy cycle now ;)
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Thanks Paddy,
Yes, I must say, I have been overwhelmed by the support and kindness on this forum. So glad I found it.
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You're welcome.
Best of luck with your cycle, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you. :)
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Yes, I must say, I have been overwhelmed by the support and kindness on this forum. So glad I found it.
Just wait 'till you miss an apostrophe out! :))
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Yes, I must say, I have been overwhelmed by the support and kindness on this forum. So glad I found it.
Just wait 'till you miss an apostrophe out! :))
No need for concern - as a Chief Inspector of the Apostrophe Police C:-), I made a horrendous spelling typo last week which struck me about 20 mins after I'd sent the e-mail and was doing something completely different. No idea how it happened but it did. I've been so frustrated with myself ever since that I'm relaxing my apostrophe fixing, etc - well, for now, at least. ;D
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Woohoo! ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
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Hi All,
Finally! My tank has started to cycle.
The tank has always been a little bit cloudy, the day after I put Donna's media in, it started clearing a little bit. Before I went to bed last night, it was crystal and I knew that something was happening in there.
On testing this morning, l have the following results -
Ammonia. - 0.50 ppm
Nitrite. Between 2ppm and 5 ppm. - It's hard to tell
Nitrate. Approx. 15 ppm
I am so pleased, and astonished that things have progressed so quickly. :D
Am I right in saying that as ammonia is less than 0.75 ppm and nitrite is over 2 ppm that I should add my original dose of ammonia to bring the ammonia back up to 3 ppm?
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That's great news. Littlefish's media seems to have done the trick.
You are now at stage 6, so yes, add another 3ppm ammonia dose and test every second day. You are looking for zero ammonia and nitrite over 1 on two consecutive tests. That is, if you add the ammonia on Friday, test on Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday etc and when you have zero ammonia on 2 of those days you'll be at stage 10.
If you find nitrite falling faster than the method on here because of the mature media, just adapt the method to fit the results.
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Thanks for your help Sue.
I'm so happy that things are at last going in the right direction. :D
Mostly due to Donna being so kind in sending me the media.
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Thought I'd try posting a photo, as the tank is looking so good. Hope it works, haven't done this before.
(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s647/Jacksie60/215590d5180687eee6d855d0f67ff073_zpsteadb4si.jpg)
{fixed the image for you so we can see it. PaddyC ;) }
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Good news... and an ace looking tank.
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Thanks paddy, what am I doing wrong?
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Thanks paddy, what am I doing wrong?
The link is absolutely fine, all you need to add are "image tags" which you can insert into a post by clicking the image button on the Post Reply page. It's to the right of the YouTube button. The tags look like this
[img][ / img]
The only difference being there are no spaces. I've put spaces to show you how they are created.
Copy and paste your image link in the middle, like this
[img] ***link goes in here [/ img]
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OK, Thank you.
Hopefully my next photos will have fish happily swimming around. :fishy1:
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That's quite alright :cheers:
Just a tip, if you go to the post where I fixed your picture, you can see the actual tags I inserted before and after the link by clicking the "Modify" button and looking at the text ;)
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That's a nice looking tank Trish :))
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Thanks Matt.
It's so nice to know that the cycle has finally started. The old media that Littlefish sent me must have been full of good bacteria, and has exploded in my tank. I could see it was working after only a few hours!
Just a case of waiting a little bit longer now and I will be able to put fish in.
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Mmmm Danone :afro
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That's a nice looking tank Trish :))
+1, very smart and green looking. All you need is some inhabitants ;)
Fingers crossed for a nice quick cycle 8)
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So glad to hear that your tank has started to cycle. :cheers:
Can't wait to see some fish in your lovely tank. :fishy1:
I've got a few of those log ornaments in my tanks. The one on the right I have stood up in a corner of the dwarf puffer tank and it is the home of one of the dominant males.
The log on the left, I have one in my mature axolotl tank, and one in the tiger barb tank. The barbs all huddle in there together at night to rest. It's so weird, but very cute when they come out in the morning for breakfast. :)
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Thanks Donna,......all down to you, can't thank you enough.
It's amazing how good those log thingies look once they get in the tank. Like you, I thought it would give the fishes lots of hiding places.
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Great to hear such rapid progress, following Littlefish's help with sending you some media. :cheers: Looking forward to seeing pics of the fish, once they eventually arrive. :fishy1:
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Mmmm Danone :afro
Hehehehehe indeed :)
Glad to hear tings are moving along Trish.
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Thanks fcmf and Fiona.
I'm really grateful for all the nice comments and the support I have had on the forum.
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Me again ;)
I know I'm being a bit dim, but once again, I need guidance on what to do now.
The tank readings this morning are :
Ammonia. 0.00 ppm
Nitrite. 0.00ppm
Nitrate. Between 10 and 15
This is first test I have done since I added more ammonia on the 15th to bring the reading back up to 3 ppm. ( step 6)
I don't know, given these readings, whether to wait another 2 days, step 8, or go straight to step 10, as the nitrite is at zero.
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Based on those results you appear to be at stage ten. Steps 7-9 are for when ammonia drops but nitrite is lagging behind.
So now you should add a full 3ppm dose of ammonia and go to 24hr testing.
Cycle going along nicely! 8)
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It sounds like Littlefish's media was full of both types of bacteria :)
Yes, go to stage 10. The reason I suggested taking it slowly earlier was that the nitrite eaters often lag behind, but yours seem to be keeping up nicley.
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It sounds like Littlefish's media was full of both types of bacteria :)
Yes, go to stage 10. The reason I suggested taking it slowly earlier was that the nitrite eaters often lag behind, but yours seem to be keeping up nicley.
I had a eureka moment towards the end of my own cycle regarding the whole process... Once you understand you're essentially growing two types of bacteria and can understand how quickly they are multiplying, it becomes really straightforward.
The guide you posted on this forum is brilliant Sue, even if you freely admit you have passed on the process from another author. I have no doubt my own tank wouldn't be how it is without it :cheers:
Looking forward to hearing your results about this time tomorrow, @Trish 8)
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Thank you for those kind words :)
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Thank you Paddy and Sue for your help.
I'm really pleased with how things are going. Fingers crossed for tomorrow. But even if the results still aren't 100%, at least I know that I won't have too long to wait. Will post tomorrow with the results.
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Hi Folks,
Results today :
Ammonia. - 0.00ppm
Nitrite. Up a little - 0.15 ppm aprox.
Nitrate. Up a little - 30 ppm
Do I now add my full dose to bring the ammonia up to 3 ppm and test again this time tomorrow?
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Yup add the full dose again @Trish and test after 24hours
Looks like you're almost there
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Cheers Fiona.
Yes, hopefully, not too long now :D
See what tomorrow brings.
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Awesome to hear Trish, when will you be looking to stock it once the cycle is complete, right away or the weekend? 8) 8)
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Hi Paddy,
Im in a bit of a dilemma on stocking.
My original intention, was to put all the fish in at once. I thought that if I did this, then I wouldn't have that awful waiting time, wondering if the new fish will bring in diseases to the longer residents.
I intend to have Panda Corys, Harlequins, Galaxy Rasboras and Cardinals.
However, I have read that Corys need to have a very mature tank. (Something about a bio film?) so that rather puts paid to that idea.
I can of course get all the others, then get the pandas later on, but that takes me back to intrducing new fish to old fish, again.
I was going to get the fish by post, from Kesgrave Tropicals, which seem to have a good reputation. The P + P is £15, whether you get one fish or 30, and I didn't mind paying as I would be getting all the fish I wanted all at once.
My only local fish shop is a P@H.
I was looking there this morning, and they have all the fish I want except the Pandas.
I've been dithering all day as to what to do for the best, and I'm annoying myself now, as I can't come to a decision.
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
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P@H won't give you many fish at once. I worked out that to get 20% stock for my newly cycled tank would require at least 18 fish. I was informed that they wouldn't sell me that many at once as it was against their policy...
I understand your reservations against adding small numbers at intervals, but is it really that much of a risk so long as you get a good look at the fish you are buying in the shop or at least have a guarantee from your Fish By Post supplier?
I have added fish on 3 different occasions since my initial batch of fish. No problems as yet to report (touch wood).
I realise this might not help you in making a decision :o
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Thanks Paddy,
Didn't realise that P@H had that policy.
I noticed they had some special offers on certain fish .......6 for £10 for example. So I'm guessing that I can buy at least 6 at a time, lol.
If I bought the maximum one week, then waited another week for the rest, what happens to all the nitryfying bacteria, whilst waiting to get the rest of the fish. Does it have to be built up again slowly?
I think I'm driving myself mad with all these questions!!
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If I bought the maximum one week, then waited another week for the rest, what happens to all the nitryfying bacteria, whilst waiting to get the rest of the fish. Does it have to be built up again slowly?
I think I'm driving myself mad with all these questions!!
Haha you wouldn't be the first and certainly won't be the last!
The bacteria balance is why it is recommended to feed your fish at half rations a few days before getting new fish, no food at all on new fish day (bearing in mind the new fish are fed daily at the shops) then a few more days at half rations after adding fish. The bacteria will have more time to come up to speed this way, reducing the chance of an ammonia/nitrite spike to negligible levels.
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Hi All,
Well, just done the water test.
I have no Ammonia
No Nitrite
And approx 40 ppm Nitrate
Looks like the tank is cycled? Or do I need to do another 24 hr test to be sure?
If it is cycled, would it be OK to do my large water change now and then get the fish tomorrow morning?
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You've had two consecutive double zeros within 24 hours... That equals a cycled tank!
Congratulations 8)
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Congratulations Trish. :cheers:
Great news about your tank cycle, and wishing you much happy fish shopping very soon. ;D
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Thanks Paddy,
Can't believe it really, that's only a week since adding Littlefish's media!
What's your thoughts on doing a big waterchange now, but not getting the fish until tomorrow? Will that be alright?
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Thanks for everything, Donna.
I am really looking forward to seeing fish in the tank.
Oddly enough, I feel a little bit nervous,too, lol. Just want to do my best for them, I suppose.
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I'm sure that we all feel like that. Keeping any pet and providing it with an environment in which it can thrive is a big responsibility, and also very rewarding. :)
Good luck. :cheers:
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Indeed... keep those animals cool...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7TRYDf-FWOM/V44wyUy2aCI/AAAAAAAAFZs/wstmiBLXD8gZbB_Y7HkVPlznee1LnfSVgCCo/s512/20160718_114459.jpg)
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Tuffers is looking as if he is enjoying that. ;D
Lucky him.
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We both like our walks in Radnor Forest... plenty of cool shade on a hot day.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-uS2BxkEBGzU/V44xCi_Tj8I/AAAAAAAAFZ0/AZ_RzeuflEcmyc8XyNUgxsm5WF1Ew87dQCCo/s512/20160712_121932.jpg)
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I've done a big waterchange and will go to P@H tomorrow morning. I'm exhausted, lugging all those buckets around, in this heat.....Trust me to pick the hottest day of the year :D
I'll buy as much fish as they will let me have.....which is probably only 6. But at least I will have some fish swimming around, after all this time looking at an empty tank.
I think that the Harliquins are probably the most robust fish on my list, so. I will get them, and hope they will be OK.
By the way, do I have to put a maintenance dose in my tank today, or will it be alright now until the fish go in?
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Nope... you're all ready for your fish - that's what the big water change was for. It was to get rid of the Nitrates caused by the cycling. The bacteria will be fine for a day or two. Now... go get those fish! :))
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Oh,Thanks for the reassurance, Colin
. Roll on tomorrow :fishy1:
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Also remember that 6 harlies will not be enough to keep all the bactria you've grown alive and squidging. You will need to stock the tank reasonably quickly, and keep a pretty close eye on your ammonia and nitrite levels as you go.
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P@H gave me ten neons at once... I've never actually asked them how many I can get at once... Wish I had now... Be very clear that you have done a fishless cycle with ammonia and need a minimum amount of fish otherwise it will set you back weeks. Hopefully you'll get an assistant who is a bit more pragmatic and not a total jobsworth.
All the best for tomorrow :cheers:
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Hi Everyone,
Went to P@H this morning and got some fish.
I got 8 x Harliquins and 8 x Cardinals.
It's only been a few hours, but their colour has really come out, and they seem to have settled in really quickly.
One young Harliquin male is displaying to the others and chasing the Cardinals.
One of the Cardinals is "pecking" at the gravel and is chasing any other Cardinals that come near.
I'm really pleased with the fish, they are looking lovely. I'd forgotten how relaxing it is to watch peaceful fish swimming around.
According to the calculator, I am 50 percent stocked. Not quite sure where to go from here. I still want Corys......not sure how long to wait before I can get them, or how long the bacteria will cope with less ammonia and start adjusting to the smaller load.
Anyways, that's something to ponder, whilst I gaze at my lovely fish. ;D
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Congratulations on your new fish. :cheers:
Don't forget to post pics when they have settled. ;)
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Thanks Donna.
I'm leaving the lights off, at the moment, as advised. But I will definitely take photos once they have all settled and I can put the lights on.
Though, I must say they don't seem the least bit timid, on the contrary, they have really surprised me with their boldness.
Probably, because the water is so good. If you were able to bottle that media of yours, you could make a fortune . ;D
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Ideally the tank should be at least 6 months old before you add corys you can speed up the development of a biofilm with something like Bacter AE but it's pretty expensive.
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OK, Thanks Fiona.
I don't mind waiting. Fishkeeping is definitely for the patient.
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Fantastic news, Trish. :cheers:
I concur with Fiona about timing - introducing my cories too soon (~2 months) is one among various theories I have for the early demise of all of mine (during months 6-9) while the rest of the fish were fine.
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Once the bacteria have died off to the amount the current fish need - in a few months as they go dormant first - it is safe to add new fish equivalent to a third of the body mass of the fish already in the tank. This just means that for fish the same size as the current ones, you get a third of the number you already have. If the new fish are twice the size of the current ones, you can only get half that number.
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Excellent news - I'm really pleased for you, and your fish.
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Fantastic news, Trish. :cheers:
I concur with Fiona about timing - introducing my cories too soon (~2 months) is one among various theories I have for the early demise of all of mine (during months 6-9) while the rest of the fish were fine.
My shrimpery was seeded with Bacter AE everyday when it was cycling and I still add it daily now for the shrimp. Might be why I'm having such success with my pygmy cories.
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Thank you everyone for your advice, kind words and help.
You have all been very generous with your time.
Special thanks to Donna, for going above and beyond! :cheers:
I'll keep you all informed of my progress.
Ps I was saying a few hours ago about having a peaceful tank. Well, now they all seem to be chasing each other all over the place.
I'm assuming they are trying to establish a pecking order?
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Congratulations on the new additions, Trish, having both of these species myself I can be completely biased when I say you've made an excellent choice :rotfl:
Don't worry about the chasing, my own shoals have hyper parts of the day as well as peaceful, schooling behaviour (usually soon after feeding).
The colours are really striking, aren't they? I could watch my own for hours...
Enjoy watching and looking after your new community :cheers:
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Hi Paddy,
Yes, they really are lovely. They are getting bolder by the hour and exploring a bit more, in and out of the holes in the logs and swimming in the current, the Harliquins really seem to enjoy a strong current.
It's also quite funny to see such tiny little creatures "squaring off" to each other.
The worst culprit is the smallest of the Harlies. (Perhaps he thinks he has something to prove!)
He tried to chase off a Cardinal, then got a shock when the Cardinal turned round and chased him.
I have been sitting watching them for hours, and have got nothing done today. I'll let myself off though, as this is the first day of their new life.
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Glad all's going well, Trish - the frenetic chasing behaviour at the start is indeed normal, often it occurs vertically up and down the glass, so don't be alarmed if you witness this. I've kept fish for years and their behaviour never, ever ceases to fascinate me - the individual behaviour of singly kept goldfish plus the social behaviour of groups of tropical fish.
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That's good to know fcmf.
They haven't stopped darting around all day. I was trying to do a head count, earlier, and had to give up, and I've only got 8 of each!
I would like to add more fish, sooner, rather than later, whilst I have still got a good amount of nitryfying bacteria.
But I am a bit stuck as to what to get.
Ideally, that would take me up to three quarter stocked and then I would bide my time, and wait for the Corrys.
My original plan was, Harliquins, Cardinals and Galaxy Rasbora. But I now think that there would be too many of the same type of fish, all swimming in the same area.
I wondered about some Dwarf Rainbow fish, but I am worried that they may be too boisterous and upset the equilibrium.
Anyone, more knowledgeable care to comment?
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You have what I would class as mid water fish.
Bottom dwellers include your corys, otocinclus (also need a biofilm), shrimp, dwarf cichlid (only get one in your size tank and don't mix with shrimp), gobies (though I've no experience of these)
For surface dwellers, consider hatchetfish, panchax, or maybe a gourami or group of sparkling gourami (bit more whole tank than the previous couple of suggestions but a different behaviour to your current fish).
I'm sure others will have comments on these and add their own suggestions, but I thought I'd get things started :)
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I'm a big fan of five-band barbs (http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/fish/fiveband-barb.html). They bounce around the bottom third of the tank, noseing around the substrate and generally being peaceful but I wouldn't call them 'timid' like the profile does. I've got eight; I started with six and there was a noticeable 'improvement' when I added a further three. One decided to die a year or so later, but the eight are lovely.
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Hi Colin and Matt.
Thanks for your suggestions.
I like the 5 banded barbs and Gouramies. Unfortunately, I am limited to what the lfs has in stock.
They don't have any of the 5 banded barbs, but they do have Honey Gouramies. According to the fish calculator, I could have 6 of these and it would bring me up to three quarters full.
Anyone have any experience pf these fish?
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I have experience of both dwarf rainbowfish (I gave mine away because they were so hyperactive) and honey gouramis.
Remind me again, what is the footprint of your tank?
Male gouramis of all species are territorial so provided the tank is long enough and you have tall plants, real or fake, to break up the line of sight, 2 males & 4 females is do-able. Honeys are one of the least aggressive gouramis, but 2 males in a small tank wouldn't work. I once bought a 1m 2f trio and two weeks after I got them one of the females changed colour and was obviously male. The two males did not get on. However, this was in a 60 x 30 cm tank.
If the tank is too small for 2 males, 1m, 3f would work or you could go for 1m 5f.
What colour are the honey gouramis in your shop? They come in natural (tan males, grey-beige females; not seen that often these days), yellow (both males and females) and red (often called red robin gouramis). The natural coloured ones are easiest to tell the genders apart, yellow next easiest and red a bit tricky. I can tell you what to look for once I know the colour :)
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Thanks so much for your reply.
My tank is too small, I'm afraid. It's 55x55, but the filter, heater and pump are concealed all along the back of it and the compartment is 25 cm. Leaving me with only 30.
The Gouramies in the shop, by the way were a pale gray, except for one which was an orangey/yellow.
There were 3 large hyperactive catfish in the same tank as them and I thought that this was causing them to be stressed out, and that was why they were that colour.
As for the rainbows.....I don't want boisterous, hyperactive fish, a nice calm tank is what I want, so, thanks for that.
Back to the drawing board.
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A 1m 1f pair is still do-able. This species can be kept as a pair unlike the more aggressive dwarfs and three-sot varieties. I've had more trouble with females squabbling than with a male harassing a lone female.
The photos in the profiles on here show the natural colour form of honey gourami. The male colouration, especially the black throat, is what they look like when they are not stressed, as they usually are in a shop tank. There they are usually quite pale with no black throat or maybe just a hint of different colour in that region. The photo of the female is typical, though some have a less pronounces stripe down the side.
If these are what the shop has, it is quite easy to choose; though it is easier if you can go with someone. Study the fish in the shop. Choose the most colourful one for the male. Choose the one with the most definite stripe for the female. Keep your eyes on the fish and send your companion to get an assistant. The fish will change colour as soon as the net goes in the tank. The male will become more drab and all the females will develop stripes. But as you have not taken your eyes off the tank, you know which fish you want :)
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Thanks Sue, I'll have another look tomorrow.
Meanwhile, my little ones look very happy.....lively, well coloured and eating.
I got some brineshrimp in a gel, made by Tetra. It doesn't have to be refrigerated and it is a bit expensive, but the fish loved it. It is packaged in small sachets, and once opened, only keeps for 24 hrs. It is still too much for my small tank, but someone with multiple tanks, could probably use the whole sachet in the time allowed.
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Frozen food is a good option.
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Hi Fiona,
Yes I also got some frozen bloodworm, New Life Spectrum 0.5mm sinking pellets and I am waiting for NLS flake to arrive.
Nothing but the best, lol!
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Hi Everyone,
I returned to P@H yesterday, and following Sue's advice on sexing, picked out a pair of Honey Gouramies.
They really are lovely little fish, and have added a bit of variety in behavior and shape to the tank
When I first put them in the tank, they both disappeared. But after about 10 mins, the male appeared and started exploring and picking at the gravel and plants.
I didn't see the female all day yesterday, however she has come out from her hiding place today, and although, still a bit timid, is now exploring and "browsing".
I'm now, a little bit concerned about the male, as he has been pacing and shimmying up and down (vertically) at the side of the tank. He isn't doing it all the time, sometimes, he will break off, for a gew minutes, then he goes back to it.
All the other fish, including the female gourami, seem fine.
I have tested my water and have no ammonis or nitrite, and approx 5ppm of Nitrate.
I hope I am right in just putting his behavior down to stress?
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Congrats on the honey gouramies.
What you're describing about the male sounds exactly what I mentioned in my post #121 above - all my tropicals have done it when new in the tank or quarantine tank, and some of them did it when I made some major changes to the tank a few weeks ago. Such behaviour does calm down eventually. Your water quality sounds good, so at least that can be ruled out as a possible cause.
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Thanks for that fcmf,
It makes me feel a lot better. Wish I wasn't such a worrier. :-\
Im really happy with the tank and fish though.
The biggest surprise to me, has been the Cardinals. I thought that they would stay mainly at the top of the tank, swimming together. But, they are all over the place, and spend a lot of time browsing along the bottom, poking around.
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There is one school of thought that says it's due to fish not being able to see the glass. In a new tank they don't know where the glass is, they have to explore it to find out the extent of the invisible barrier. Once they become familiar with the tank, they have learned where this barrier is so don't have the same need to try to find a way round it.
Maybe?
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Yes, that does make sense, Sue.
Watching the male Gourami closely, he has his nose to the glass, as if he is trying to get out, and can't understand why.
Thank you for your help in choosing the fish, by the way. I would have been lost, otherwise.
There was only one fish that had any colour in the tank, all the rest were silvery grey. Some with stripes, some without. So choosing the male was easy. I then explained to the hapless assistant about submissive males pretending to be females, and how I wanted one with a stripe. She was very kind, but I could tell she thought I was some sort of a mad fish lady, lol.
She consulted someone in the back of the shop, who told her that there was a mixture of Red Honey Gouramies, and, quote - "ordinary ones" and that they were all male.
Anyway, I forged ahead and got the pair. She did say that if I had problems, I could bring one back.....not that I would want to, but it's good to have that option, just in case.
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P@H assistants aren't the most knowledgeable. They are mostly trained on how to sell fish. About 15 years ago I wanted a pair of dwarf gouramis, the natural coloured ones with red and blue striped male/plain silver female. The chap who served me assured me the pale blue one was a female and refused to accept it when I said it was a male so I asked the person on the checkout. She said I'd been given a natural male and a powder blue male and told the chap to swap the blue fish for a silver one. I wondered how many people had gone home with 2 males after he'd told them they had a male and female? I had done my homework so I knew he was wrong.
Even if your colourful one turns out to be a red female, you know that the silvery grey one is a female so you shouldn't have any issues with males fighting over territory. They just won't spawn.
Let them mature a bit and look at the long fins on the back and underneath. If they are very rounded at the tail end, the colourful one is a female red. If they are even slightly pointy, it's a male. This pointiness isn't always obvious in young fish which is why the red ones are harder to tell the sexes apart in shop tanks.
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Hi Sue
The coloured one has a pointy ended fin along the back. ;D
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Sounds like a male :) It doesn't really matter what colour form he is so long as there is 1 male and 1 female.
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I know this photo is not very good, but I am hoping that it is good enough to show the difference between the 2 Gouramis that I added to the tank on Friday.
The coloured one is the one that I think is the male, and just below, is the little female. The reason I'm posting, is because I'm beginning to wonder if the " male" is actually a Honey Gourami.
He is a lot bigger and doesn't behave the same as the female. She is very calm and browses round the tank and seems very happy. She sleeps at the bottom of the tank, in a log cave, at night.
He shimmys up and down the tank and is very jumpy. Whenever he sees the female, he chases her. Not very aggressively, but enough for her to move out of his way. He sleeps at the top of the tank under a floating plant.
They just seem so very different from each other and as I said, he is a lot bigger. Even his face looks different, lol.
(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s647/Jacksie60/d6f7f87b9bee039a762fb61dac321727_zpsjub943cu.jpg)
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The lower one is definitely a natural coloured female.
However, the top one doesn't look like a natural coloured male. It's colouring looks like a red honey gourami, aka red robin gourami, though from the angle it's hard to see it's fins clearly enough to decide the gender. If you could manage it, a square on shot of the rear half of the body would help.
Red gouramis are not scarlet, they vary between orangey brown when newly arrived to orangey red once they've settled. Your fish doesn't show any sign of the yellow dorsal fin you get in natural coloured males.
There was a dispute some years ago about the origins of red robin gouramis. Some said they were just selectively bred honeys, others said they were honey-dwarf hybrids. Whichever they are, reds grow bigger than naturals and yellows.
As for behaviour, I always found that female honeys spent most of their time pretending other fish didn't exist and just pottering round the tank usually scouring the bottom for morsels of uneaten food. Males were always more active, darting about the tank and sometimes building bubble nests and trying to entice a female, which usually ignored him.
It does take honey gouramis a while to settle. You need to wait a few weeks yet before yours settle in and their behaviour becomes normal for the species.
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Hi Sue,
Is this one any better?
(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s647/Jacksie60/f6ac9087ed7d870d093772a6478a18d0_zpsk9pxq8jp.jpg)
He's all over the place at the moment, every time I try to take a photo he streaks around the tank. As soon as I give up, he sits still for a few moments. :vcross:
Your description of the female honey matches mine exactly. She is a sweet little thing that goes about her business and doesn't bother anybody.
But as I said previously, the "male" is very much bigger. Where the female has a small, pointed, slightly upturned mouth, his mouth has thicker lips and doesn't turn up as much.
I don't care if it's not actually a Honey, or indeed, a male. I'm just curious and would like to know.
I will try to get som better photos of him, perhaps a few weeks from now, when hopefully, he has settled down.
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Hmm, I'm not sure. I've never kept the red form and its dorsal fin looks longer than honey males usually do.
But I have found something on Seriously Fish that might explain things. There are 10 photos of honey gourami (http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/trichogaster-chuna/) on SF and the 5th one bears the text The red colour form has been selectively bred for the ornamental trade, possibly via hybridisation with the congener T. labiosa
Trichogaster labiosa (http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/trichogaster-labiosa/) is the thick lipped gourami which also has a red-orange colour form.
If red honeys are this hybrid, it would explain the mouth of your fish. It would also explain why the red honey gourami is bigger than the other colours as T. labiosa is a bigger fish than T. chuna. It might even possibly be a red thick lipped gourami. Even if it is, SF advises that it can be kept with other peaceful anabatids so there shouldn't be a problem with the female.
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Thanks Sue, for going to all that trouble.....much appreciated.
Lookong at all the different photos, my fish looks the most like T. labiosa. He has the same mouth and fin shape as the natural coloured one.
When he settles down and grows a little, perhaps it will be more obvious which one he is.
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He's a very handsome little fella. :)
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He certainly is, Donna.
The female by contrast, is very drab.....a silvery grey colour, with a darker band, running from eye to tail. She is really calm, and seems to have settled in quickly, whilst he is still very jumpy.
Even though he's got the looks, she's my favourite, because of her nice nature.
Like most women, she just gets on with it!
Here is a picture of the tank.
He's in the top right hand corner, chasing the female......you can just about see her, twisting away from him.
(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s647/Jacksie60/ae28d51d875e26981a2314cd76c83080_zps5vnqua1a.jpg)
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If the red one does turn out to be a male honey gourami, you can expect to see courtship behaviour even if they don't actually spawn. It is very easy to apply human behaviour to this. The courtship stages are:
Male displays to female by swimming vertically in front of her. She ignores him and turns away. "I know what you're after, go away"
Male persists and she eventually follows him a short distance "OK, what do you want to show me.... hang on, that's a bubble nest, I'm not that sort of girl, I'm off"
Eventually the female follows him right to the nest then swims off. "That is a rather nice bubble nest, but I'm not falling for this you know"
Finally they spawn under the bubble nest "I'm convinced, you are a gorgeous male and that really is a nice bubble nest"
Males will chase females to 'get them in the mood' (apparently it stimulates egg production) and when she starts to follow then turns away. But in all the years I had honey gouramis, the worst that happened was the female getting a few chunks missing from the edge of her tail, which soon regrew.
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Yes, Sue, I hope he is a red honey, if so, I'll look forward to the spawning ritual, thanks to you, I'll know what is going on, if or when it happens. :)
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Your tank is looking lovely and the descriptions of behaviour from yourself and Sue have made me chuckle. :)
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Oh, I missed the pic earlier although had seen Sue's description which brought a smile to my face. How lovely that tank is - and great to be able to see the individual fish as well as all the decor so clearly.
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Thanks Donna and fcmf.
Yes, Sue's description of the fish mating was really funny. Who said "romance is dead"?
Hard to believe that only a few weeks ago, I thought that my tank would never cycle.
And now here I am with fish happily swimming around.
I'm spending so much time watching them, that my cat is jealous! She keeps coming up to me, moaning and pawing for my attention.
Before I got the fish, she only wanted to know me at mealtimes.