Return To Tropical Fishkeeping

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Offline Trish

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Re: Return to tropical fishkeeping
« Reply #140 on: July 26, 2016, 11:41:02 PM »
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I know this photo is not very good, but I am hoping that it is good enough to show the difference between the 2 Gouramis that I added to the tank on Friday.

The coloured one is the one that I think is the male, and just below, is the little female. The reason I'm posting, is because I'm beginning to wonder if the " male" is actually a Honey Gourami.
He is a lot bigger and doesn't behave the same as the female. She is very calm and browses round the tank and seems very happy. She sleeps at the bottom of the tank, in a log cave, at night.
He shimmys up and down the tank and is very jumpy. Whenever he sees the female, he chases her. Not very aggressively, but enough for her to move out of his way. He sleeps at the top of the tank under a floating plant.

They just seem so very different from each other and as I said, he is a lot bigger. Even his face looks different, lol.






Offline Sue

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Re: Return to tropical fishkeeping
« Reply #141 on: July 27, 2016, 01:26:07 PM »
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The lower one is definitely a natural coloured female.

However, the top one doesn't look like a natural coloured male. It's colouring looks like a red honey gourami, aka red robin gourami, though from the angle it's hard to see it's fins clearly enough to decide the gender. If you could manage it, a square on shot of the rear half of the body would help.
Red gouramis are not scarlet, they vary between orangey brown when newly arrived to orangey red once they've settled. Your fish doesn't show any sign of the yellow dorsal fin you get in natural coloured males.

There was a dispute some years ago about the origins of red robin gouramis. Some said they were just selectively bred honeys, others said they were honey-dwarf hybrids. Whichever they are, reds grow bigger than naturals and yellows.


As for behaviour, I always found that female honeys spent most of their time pretending other fish didn't exist and just pottering round the tank usually scouring the bottom for morsels of uneaten food. Males were always more active, darting about the tank and sometimes building bubble nests and trying to entice a female, which usually ignored him.

It does take honey gouramis a while to settle. You need to wait a few weeks yet before yours settle in and their behaviour becomes normal for the species.

Offline Trish

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Re: Return to tropical fishkeeping
« Reply #142 on: July 27, 2016, 02:27:14 PM »
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Hi Sue,

Is this one any better?



He's all over the place at the moment, every time I try to take a photo he streaks around the tank. As soon as I give up, he sits still for a few moments.  :vcross:

Your description of the female honey matches mine exactly. She is a sweet little thing that goes about her business and doesn't bother anybody.

But as I said previously, the "male" is very much bigger. Where the female has a small, pointed, slightly upturned mouth, his mouth has thicker lips and doesn't turn up as much.

I don't care if it's not actually a Honey, or indeed, a male. I'm just curious and would like to know.

I will try to get som better photos of him, perhaps a few weeks from now, when hopefully, he has settled down.


Offline Sue

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Re: Return to tropical fishkeeping
« Reply #143 on: July 27, 2016, 04:20:14 PM »
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Hmm, I'm not sure. I've never kept the red form and its dorsal fin looks longer than honey males usually do.

But I have found something on Seriously Fish that might explain things. There are 10 photos of honey gourami on SF and the 5th one bears the text
Quote
The red colour form has been selectively bred for the ornamental trade, possibly via hybridisation with the congener T. labiosa
Trichogaster labiosa is the thick lipped gourami which also has a red-orange colour form.

If red honeys are this hybrid, it would explain the mouth of your fish. It would also explain why the red honey gourami is bigger than the other colours as T. labiosa is a bigger fish than T. chuna. It might even possibly be a red thick lipped gourami. Even if it is, SF advises that it can be kept with other peaceful anabatids so there shouldn't be a problem with the female.

Offline Trish

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Re: Return to tropical fishkeeping
« Reply #144 on: July 28, 2016, 08:21:07 AM »
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Thanks Sue, for going to all that trouble.....much appreciated.

Lookong at all the different photos, my fish looks the most like T. labiosa. He has the same mouth and fin shape as the natural coloured one.

When he settles down and grows a little, perhaps it will be more obvious which one he is.


Offline Littlefish

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Re: Return to tropical fishkeeping
« Reply #145 on: July 28, 2016, 09:35:52 AM »
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He's a very handsome little fella.  :)

Offline Trish

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Re: Return to tropical fishkeeping
« Reply #146 on: July 28, 2016, 10:44:00 AM »
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He certainly is, Donna.

The female by contrast, is very drab.....a silvery grey colour, with a darker band, running from eye to tail. She is really calm, and seems to have settled in quickly, whilst he is still very jumpy.

Even though he's got the looks, she's my favourite, because of her nice nature.

Like most women, she just gets on with it!

Here is a picture of the tank.

He's in the top right hand corner, chasing the female......you can just about see her, twisting away from him.



Offline Sue

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Re: Return to tropical fishkeeping
« Reply #147 on: July 28, 2016, 10:57:54 AM »
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If the red one does turn out to be a male honey gourami, you can expect to see courtship behaviour even if they don't actually spawn. It is very easy to apply human behaviour to this. The courtship stages are:
Male displays to female by swimming vertically in front of her. She ignores him and turns away. "I know what you're after, go away"
Male persists and she eventually follows him a short distance "OK, what do you want to show me.... hang on, that's a bubble nest, I'm not that sort of girl, I'm off"
Eventually the female follows him right to the nest then swims off. "That is a rather nice bubble nest, but I'm not falling for this you know"
Finally they spawn under the bubble nest "I'm convinced, you are a gorgeous male and that really is a nice bubble nest"

Males will chase females to 'get them in the mood' (apparently it stimulates egg production) and when she starts to follow then turns away. But in all the years I had honey gouramis, the worst that happened was the female getting a few chunks missing from the edge of her tail, which soon regrew.

Offline Trish

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Re: Return to tropical fishkeeping
« Reply #148 on: July 28, 2016, 11:43:17 AM »
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 Yes, Sue, I hope he is a red honey, if so, I'll look forward to the spawning ritual, thanks to you, I'll know what is going on, if or when it happens. :)

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Return to tropical fishkeeping
« Reply #149 on: July 28, 2016, 08:34:32 PM »
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Your tank is looking lovely and the descriptions of behaviour from yourself and Sue have made me chuckle.  :)

Offline fcmf

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Re: Return to tropical fishkeeping
« Reply #150 on: July 28, 2016, 08:44:36 PM »
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Oh, I missed the pic earlier although had seen Sue's description which brought a smile to my face. How lovely that tank is - and great to be able to see the individual fish as well as all the decor so clearly.

Offline Trish

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Re: Return to tropical fishkeeping
« Reply #151 on: July 28, 2016, 10:38:47 PM »
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Thanks Donna and fcmf.

Yes, Sue's description of the fish mating was really funny. Who said "romance is dead"?

Hard to believe that only a few weeks ago, I thought that my tank would never cycle.
And now here I am with fish happily swimming around.

I'm spending so much time watching them, that my cat is jealous! She keeps coming up to me, moaning and pawing for my attention.
Before I got the fish, she only wanted to know me at mealtimes.

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