Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => New Fishkeepers => Topic started by: Ally2 on July 12, 2016, 05:09:59 PM
-
Hi
As new to fish keeping , I have bought some lovely plants but would like to know if I should keep them in pots or not ? One shop said yes the other said not too! I've planted most in the substrate .
Thanks Ally
-
Most people plant them, except for java fern and anubias. The rhizomes of those rot if planted so they are usually attached to decor. If you don't have either of those, planting them in the substrate is fine.
-
For me it would depend on what substrate you have and the types of plants.
Remember that you can use substrate sticks/tablets with any inert substrate. These need replacing every few months, but are quite cheap. Iron is usually a problem for plants, especially more difficult ones, without a proper source such as fertilisers or proper soil.
The only purpose I could see for using pots would be if your substrate was inert (ie. regular gravel) and you didn't particularly want to do dose ferts, but needed a good nutrient base for particular plants (e.g. keep that difficult big red plant growing strong in its own pot). Or if you wanted to keep the plant position quite versatile: easy to move a potted plant around; not so if buried in substrate. But how often will you move a plant once planted?
Unless you have difficult plants and bad lighting, most aquarium plants will grow in anything using nutrients from decomposed fish food, fish poo, fish CO2 and regular lighting. This is what I have done, but note that I also use substrate sticks/pellets. You might want to read Diana Walstad's work on planted aquariums. Others here can explain it better than I.
If you want to up the "tech" ever so slightly you can use Seachem Excel (or something like it, like Easy-Carbo). This provides additional carbon to your plants. Use it every other day and don't overdose. However, there are those who say if you have enough fishies breathing out CO2 you don't need this kind of stuff.
On the subject of CO2, you probably want to retain as much in the water during the day for the plants - so I turn my airpumps off. In the night I put the airpumps on. Just something to think about.
Edited: just seen Sue's comments so removed what I was going to say. Yes, check what plants you have! I was slowly killing my java fern and anubias because I planted them.
-
While not new to fishkeeping, I'm new to keeping live plants. My anubias, java fern and java moss are doing well attached to decor, but I decided to keep the various vallisneria plants in their pots as I tend to be very thorough with my vacuuming and reckoned I'd only end up taking them out of the tank along with everything else each time I cleaned the tank. However, while the plants attached to decor are all doing well, the vallisneria is not doing well at all, so I'm thinking of transferring it to the substrate to see if I can save it - I think I ought to have done this after all in the first place. (There are other reasons why it might not be doing well, though eg tends to do well in hard water whereas I have very soft water.) Hope that is helpful.
-
I'm relatively new to fish keeping, and have only started to convert my tanks to live plants in the past month or so. Everything is planted in the substrate, or tied to rocks/wood, but I have a few tanks where everything is in pots because I'm buying plants as I see them and keeping them for when I upgrade my dwarf puffer tank, and for when I set up my last few tanks. Everything seems to be doing well.
I have to admit that I have a fondness (because I can be a bit lazy at times) for aquatic bulbs. Throw them in the tank, or place them where you want them (not planted in substrate) and off they go, sprouting roots and leaves quite happily. The ones I bought a month ago now have leaves that reach the surface of the water. If you want instant impact you'd have to pay extra for the bulbs with leaves.
If this appeals to you, have a look here:-
https://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/bulbs-c-255_498.html?zenid=289ac8fd2f0413a7635a95b7b9e4ffae
-
So much to learn ! And I. A gardener so this is like a garden under water for me .
Ok firstly no idea what substrate sticks / pellets are please explain ?
Think I have anubias in the gravel but it won't stay in so that would explain it . The difficulty is when you Hoover the gravel they all come loose and I can't keep re planting which us why I liked the idea of keeping them in pots . I have changed the plants around while trying to design it to look realistic to their natural habitat . Also I keep looking at those aquascaping photos wondering if I can ever achieve it . I have managed to attach Java moss and another rhizomes plant to the bogwood . But not sure I like the look of the Java moss yet.
Little fish looked at that site and it's great ! I'm keen on the different moss types you can buy but am aware I have hard water so need to check out.
I like the rocks that have moss growing on them . But I understand rocks can have an effect on the ph ? Is that right ?
My ph is 7.6
My substrate Is gravel quite big stones . ( not sure I like that either now ! ) I also bought plant fertiliser fir the tank.
Ally
-
If you have gravel, don't hoover it near the plants. The fish poo etc in the gravel will act as plant fertiliser, like horse manure on roses or rhubarb. Hoover the gravel where there are no roots.
Substrate sticks, root tablets etc are lumps of compressed dry plant fertiliser that you push into the substrate next to the plant and they slowly break down and feed the plants. Fish poo doesn't give the plants all the nutrients they need.
The anubias needs to come out of the gravel. You can fix it to any decor you have in the tank. The easiest way is to use sewing thread to hold it on until it attaches itself.
Rocks can affect the water in one of two ways.
Calcareous rocks like limestone will dissolve very slowly, increasing GH (general hardness) KH (carbonate hardness) and pH. If you don't want that, avoid rocks like limestone or tufa.
Some rocks have metal veins in them and they can release unwanted metals into the water.
I would like to say that buying a rock from a fish shop would be safe. But I once did this, put it in the tank and got up next morning to a very cloudy tank and lots of bare hornwort stems with the leaves all over the bottom of the tank. But any rock that already has something growing on it shouldn't do that - it will have been submerged to keep the plant wet and the seller would find out quickly if it was like the one I bought.
If you don't like the gravel, change it before the plants start to root. It'll be more difficult later :)
-
The more I learn the more. Realise the less I know ! Sue please help me identify these plants and if they shouldn't be in the gravel . I think these are anubias ? Both the large one on the left and the shorter ones at the front ?
How long do they take to root ?
Will avoid hoovering round them now .
-
They do look like anubias. There are several species, some large, some small; some with round leaves, some with oval leaves. I have a few different species, and yours look like some of mine.
They need to be tied onto something. It's OK if the roots go down into the gravel, it's the 'stem', the rhizome that must not be under the substrate.
If you mean how long do they take to cling to decor themselves, it can take a couple of months to become firmly attached.
But if you mean how does it take for other types of plant to root in the gravel, I'm afraid I haven't a clue. I only have plants attached to decor. Someone else should be able to tell you.
-
I also have quite hard water here, and have been converting my tanks to live plants over the past month or so.
I also enjoy gardening, and feel exactly the same way about the underwater gardening. I'm enjoying it.
As I'm not very experienced with planted tanks, my general approach is to just have a go. One or two plants have died off, but I'm amazed at how well some of the others have done.
My plants are generally from MA, LFS or Aqua Essentials
Anubias (lots of different ones) and java fern tied to rock & wood have been brilliant, even in my axolotl tanks, which are relatively cold and dark.
Everything that I planted into the substrate over the past month or so I would guess has rooted, the only plant that has come out was a casualty of my attempts to catch my bristlenose plec last week.
The first bulbs I bought, even though just placed on top of the substrate, are now rooted firmly. :)
-
That 'large anubia' looks suspiciously like a peace lily to me ???
-
Help a peace lily is t that a house plant ?
Something in my tank is definitely an anubias because I have the label for it . The red ones are two different kinds of ludwigia and they are doing really well and I like the colour. It's the ones in the front I'm not sure about because a few of the leaves have died off . But I've just had a close look at them and they have got new leaves on ! Must be doing something right !
I've tied one of the other pants on the bog wood as that definitely has a rhizome root.
-
Nice looking betta. :)
The plant in that tank looks like something I have in one of my tanks. It is also planted in the substrate and doing well. Sometimes a few leaves die off any plant, but new growth is always a nice sight.
-
The plant that you've got growing sideways ( ;D ) looks like a Cryptocoryne species - there's zillions of different types. They're very easy to grow, but are root feeders.
The trouble with large gravel like wot you have is that the root hairs can't get in contact with any soil to absorb nutrients, so it would be best to change your substrate soon. I've just done that and it's really easy.
You could either go for the aquatic soil 'underlay' with ~2mm gravel on top, or cheat like me. I used Caribsea EcoComplete (https://www.caribsea.com/caribsea_ecoplanted.html) which is an all-in-one substrate. It's expensive, but as I only needed one sack and I wanted as quick a change as possible then I think it was worth it. I've got crypts, vallis and an Amazonian Sword growing happily in it, and two different bulb types (banana and lace) rooting happily and chucking up leaves. You don't need to gravel clean 'cos the fish poo acts as the fertiliser.Also, it's black which really makes the colour of the plants and fish look more striking.
-
@ColinB glad to hear the bulbs are chucking up leaves. Are you happy with how they look? I admit that I am happy with the bulbs I bought, and have recently had another delivery of a wider range of bulbs, which are doing well. I'm liking the "low maintenance" approach or putting the bulb on the substrate and leaving it alone. :)
-
Yep - I especially like the lace plant. I had to wedge that betweed a few pebbles 'cos the barbs kept playing noseball with it. The banana plant shoved down roots, but then lifted itself up instead of roots going down, so that's now found a different place to be happy in, but I don't mind. The fish like 'em, 'specially the Oto's which shuffle up and down the leaves keeping them spotless.
-
Fantastic.
I have a lace plant bulb doing very well in the dwarf puffer tank.
One of the banana plants was tied to a piece of wood in the hatchets & tetra tank and has grown really well there.
The rest have just been dropped into the hatchet/tetra and bristlenose tanks as a temporary measure until I get other tanks set up, and even they are growing new leaves on an almost daily basis. I'm really pleased with them.
-
Further to Colin (great link btw, that substrate looks very good) - if you want to go the "aquascaping" route then you should really get a proper complete substrate like what Colin linked, or Tetra Complete, ADA aquasoil etc.
This is what I wish I would have done, if only to get a true carpet in my tank. But like I said above, having foregone the carpet dream now, I have quite an underwater jungle in my tank without soil or CO2.
The pro aquascaping look, ala The Green Machine, Takashi Amano: if you want to go down this route (as I do at some point) then don't rush into it. It will be quite a costly outlay and needs lots of planning. And as others here say, for a regular planted tank you can do all that with the right plants and very low upkeep! Plus, you don't need high tech to scape a beautiful tank, just some nice wood/rock/plants. Research things like the golden ratio, and how colours compliment each other (red on green is particular nice). Also try to avoid symmetry.
Sometime in the next few months I intend to start such a project, so if you're interested I'll tag you @Ally2 :)
@ColinB once again thanks for that link. I might use that substrate myself for Project 70 :rotfl: :fishy1:
-
I've not got any bulbs in my tanks but I'm very tempted now :)
-
I've not got any bulbs in my tanks but I'm very tempted now :)
Go on... you know you want to. O:-)
-
I've not got any bulbs in my tanks but I'm very tempted now :)
Go on... you know you want to. O:-)
Yes I do :afro
-
So been looking today at different size gravel . Is it better to have the finer type substrate then than the type I have which is larger ? Don't he plants grow OK in both ?
Ally
-
Plants will root much better in 1-2mm size gravel like Colin says. :cheers:
-
It is easy to change the gravel before the plants root. When you have the gravel, we can tell you the most effective way.
-
I'm thinking of changing mine to eco-complete too (so that when I eventually upgrade my tank I can take 'seeded' substrate aver to the new tank :cheers:) so I'd be interested in those instructions :D
-
Basically, prepare your new substrate before starting as it could take a while to wash it clear. Keep in a bucket till ready for use.
Feed the fish half rations for a few days before the swap, nothing on the day itself, then half rations for a few days after - this cuts down the ammonia they make.
After the swap, test for ammonia and nitrite every day until you are sure they are staying at zero - and do water changes as necessary if they don't stay at zero.
Make sure you have enough containers to hold the fish and decor during the changeover procedure. if they don't have lids, have enough old towels or some such to cover containers with fish - they'll jump if frightened.
On the day itself, remove tank water into the containers, then move the fish and decor, and filter if that is possible. Save as much tank water as possible, then scoop out the gravel. Remember it will scratch the glass if you are clumsy! The remaining water will be disgusting - siphon it out and throw away.
Put the new substrate in the tank, and if you have live plants, plant them when it is normal to plant them (I'm afraid I don't know when this is as all my plants are attached to wood). Fill with warmed dechlorinated water to the same level as when you started taking the old substrate out and then add the water in the containers, moving decor and fish into the tank with the old water. If necessary, top up with more new water.
You will lose the bacteria on the old substrate. The non-substrate bacteria will soon multiple to make up the loss, but this is the reason for reducing the amount of food and testing daily afterwards.
-
Hi terrified at changing the gravel , I can put the old water , ornaments in a bucket with the fish then should I put the pump in the bucket and the heater ?
I always wonder if this is ok ?
Then I can change the gravel . Put the old water back and top up with treated water ( tap safe )
Ally
-
Your tank has the filter etc in a separate section at the back doesn't it? If it does, just leave everything there. It's just that internals, heaters and even the tubes from externals can get in the way of scooping old gravel out so it can be easier to get them right out of the way. And with your tank it will take no time at all to remove the gravel and redo the plants so the filter media won't have time to dry out. As long as it stays even barely damp, that's fine.
A few years ago after the incident of the Bolivian ram with a piece of gravel stuck in her throat I changed three tanks from gravel to sand. My biggest back then was a 125 litre, and I wanted to move it across the room so I did both at the same time. That did take a while as it was heavy to move. But the two smaller tanks (60 litre and 25 litre) were very quick.
-
I'm wondering if it would be possible to do sections of gravel at a time over the course of a few weeks, e.g. do quarter of the tank per week. You'd need to gravel vac the area first of course and once the old gravel is removed, put in some kind of plastic divider to separate the different substrates, but I can't help feeling that overall this would be less stressful for me, the fish and water quality??
Any thoughts appreciated :o
-
You would have to be careful when cleaning so as not to mix the batches. When I took the gravel out of my tanks a few years ago, despite weekly gravel siphons I was horrified at the amount of muck in there. You would also have to be very careful removing later batches of old gravel so the muck didn't float off and settle on the parts you'd already done.
I did a 125 litre tank the way I described above and never saw a blip in either ammonia or nitrite. If your signature is up to date, 64 litres would be easier than 125, though if you still have the shrimps there could be babies in there.
-
Ok, I'm thinking this possible isn't out of the question for me then... I don't get much muck when I gravel vacuum, apart from around the plants because I found that water clarity was greatly improved with better gravel vaccing so I do it very thoroughly each week, completing my full wAter change with just gravel vac water.
Good point 're shrimp and snails too - I think shrimp are a lost cause anyway with the Rams to be honest, it would be nice to find a few though, I can't imagine them staying around whilst I scoop out the gravel, I might have to go through the gravel afterwards to find the snail's though, that said with even a maximum of half a tank done at once, that's again not out of the question for me as my current tank is not that large (and relatively tall for its size - 60x30 I think).
I think I'm going to go for it...
-
Hi terrified at changing the gravel , I can put the old water , ornaments in a bucket with the fish then should I put the pump in the bucket and the heater ?
I always wonder if this is ok ?
Then I can change the gravel . Put the old water back and top up with treated water ( tap safe )
Ally
The bigger container you can get to take tank water and fish the better, bigger volumes of water cool down slower than small amounts. If your heater is a separate internal one that is easily moved across then by all means do it. Just make sure it is turned off before the water level drops and is fully submerged again before turning back on. But don't worry about a couple of hours without a heater. They'll be fine.
If you prepare the new substrate as per Sue's guide, you can get the tank empty of fish, decor, old substrate, do a quick clean (doesn't need to be spick and span, just a good mop out of the remaining muck) then rebuild in a few hours.
New substrate in, fill to halfway and to tropical temperature, add the fish and the old tank water, then top up, adjusting to temperature. This way ensures the minimal amount of stress for the fish.
Please please PLEASE ensure that any containers with fish in are covered whenever possible. If I had thought of this during my house move (20+ fish) I wouldn;t have lost any (probably). :(
-
I've done a couple of substrate changes, both all-at-once and section-by-section, and would say that it's far easier to do it all-at-once. Best to have too much pre-prepared water during the change as a just-in-case. I caught all my fish by siphoning off the water 'till they had almost nothing left, and then scooped them out by hand. I'd say best to take out all the old plants and decor the evening before as this often stirs up a load of muck, this then has chance to settle or be filtered out over night so the water you remove at the gravel change is clear.
After the change I got a brown algae (diatom) bloom, so all my lovely new plants turned brown. So it might be a good idea to put some cheap'n'chearful plants in to start with and wait for the bloom to finish, then replace those with your plants of choice.
-
I've changed the substrate in a 55l 4 times since I've owned it, the 125l twice and I'm going to change the 200l as soon as the decorating has finished on the sitting room back wall because I'm going to move the fish tank to there after its painted. On all occasions I've changed the substrate in one go, removing the fish and housing them in a big black dustbin with heater, air stone and a filter. Its a heck of a lot easier just to drain the tank low and scoop the fish out.
I found with the 125l that it took about 6 hours from start to finish, this was mainly because there were a lot of plants to be individually planted back into the substrate.
I doubt I'll use the filter this time as it's an external and will create a bit of a whirlpool if I use it but I do have a spare filter that has zeolite cartridge filters so I'll dig that out and use that