Plants In Pots Or Not ?

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Offline Ally2

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Plants in pots or not ?
« on: July 12, 2016, 05:09:59 PM »
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Hi
As new to fish keeping , I have bought some lovely plants but would like to know if I should keep them in pots or not ? One shop said yes the other said not too! I've planted most in the substrate .
Thanks Ally

Offline Sue

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Re: Plants in pots or not ?
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2016, 05:17:45 PM »
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Most people plant them, except for java fern and anubias. The rhizomes of those rot if planted so they are usually attached to decor. If you don't have either of those, planting them in the substrate is fine.

Offline Cora

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Re: Plants in pots or not ?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2016, 05:27:52 PM »
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For me it would depend on what substrate you have and the types of plants.

Remember that you can use substrate sticks/tablets with any inert substrate. These need replacing every few months, but are quite cheap. Iron is usually a problem for plants, especially more difficult ones, without a proper source such as fertilisers or proper soil.

The only purpose I could see for using pots would be if your substrate was inert (ie. regular gravel) and you didn't particularly want to do dose ferts, but needed a good nutrient base for particular plants (e.g. keep that difficult big red plant growing strong in its own pot). Or if you wanted to keep the plant position quite versatile: easy to move a potted plant around; not so if buried in substrate. But how often will you move a plant once planted?

Unless you have difficult plants and bad lighting, most aquarium plants will grow in anything using nutrients from decomposed fish food, fish poo, fish CO2 and regular lighting. This is what I have done, but note that I also use substrate sticks/pellets. You might want to read Diana Walstad's work on planted aquariums. Others here can explain it better than I.

If you want to up the "tech" ever so slightly you can use Seachem Excel (or something like it, like Easy-Carbo). This provides additional carbon to your plants. Use it every other day and don't overdose. However, there are those who say if you have enough fishies breathing out CO2 you don't need this kind of stuff.

On the subject of CO2, you probably want to retain as much in the water during the day for the plants - so I turn my airpumps off. In the night I put the airpumps on. Just something to think about.

Edited: just seen Sue's comments so removed what I was going to say. Yes, check what plants you have! I was slowly killing my java fern and anubias because I planted them.

Offline fcmf

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Re: Plants in pots or not ?
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2016, 06:22:04 PM »
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While not new to fishkeeping, I'm new to keeping live plants. My anubias, java fern and java moss are doing well attached to decor, but I decided to keep the various vallisneria plants in their pots as I tend to be very thorough with my vacuuming and reckoned I'd only end up taking them out of the tank along with everything else each time I cleaned the tank. However, while the plants attached to decor are all doing well, the vallisneria is not doing well at all, so I'm thinking of transferring it to the substrate to see if I can save it - I think I ought to have done this after all in the first place. (There are other reasons why it might not be doing well, though eg tends to do well in hard water whereas I have very soft water.) Hope that is helpful.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Plants in pots or not ?
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2016, 07:05:03 PM »
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I'm relatively new to fish keeping, and have only started to convert my tanks to live plants in the past month or so. Everything is planted in the substrate, or tied to rocks/wood, but I have a few tanks where everything is in pots because I'm buying plants as I see them and keeping them for when I upgrade my dwarf puffer tank, and for when I set up my last few tanks. Everything seems to be doing well.
I have to admit that I have a fondness (because I can be a bit lazy at times) for aquatic bulbs. Throw them in the tank, or place them where you want them (not planted in substrate) and off they go, sprouting roots and leaves quite happily. The ones I bought a month ago now have leaves that reach the surface of the water. If you want instant impact you'd have to pay extra for the bulbs with leaves.
If this appeals to you, have a look here:-
https://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/bulbs-c-255_498.html?zenid=289ac8fd2f0413a7635a95b7b9e4ffae

Offline Ally2

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Re: Plants in pots or not ?
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2016, 08:45:25 PM »
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So much to learn ! And I. A gardener so this is like a garden under water for me .
Ok firstly no idea what substrate sticks / pellets are please explain ?
Think I have anubias in the gravel but it won't stay in so that would explain it . The difficulty is when you Hoover the gravel they all come loose and I can't keep re planting which us why I liked the idea of keeping them in pots . I have changed the plants around while trying to design it to look realistic to their natural habitat . Also I keep looking at those aquascaping photos wondering if I can ever achieve it . I have managed to attach Java moss and another rhizomes plant to the bogwood . But not sure I like the look of the Java moss yet.
Little fish looked at that site and it's great ! I'm keen on the different moss types you can buy but am aware I have hard water so need to check out.
I like the rocks that have moss growing on them . But I understand rocks can have an effect on the ph ? Is that right ?
My ph is 7.6
My substrate Is gravel quite big stones . ( not sure I like that either now ! ) I also bought plant fertiliser fir the tank.
Ally

Offline Sue

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Re: Plants in pots or not ?
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2016, 08:59:29 PM »
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If you have gravel, don't hoover it near the plants. The fish poo etc in the gravel will act as plant fertiliser, like horse manure on roses or rhubarb. Hoover the gravel where there are no roots.
Substrate sticks, root tablets etc are lumps of compressed dry plant fertiliser that you push into the substrate next to the plant and they slowly break down and feed the plants. Fish poo doesn't give the plants all the nutrients they need.

The anubias needs to come out of the gravel. You can fix it to any decor you have in the tank. The easiest way is to use sewing thread to hold it on until it attaches itself.

Rocks can affect the water in one of two ways.
Calcareous rocks like limestone will dissolve very slowly, increasing GH (general hardness) KH (carbonate hardness) and pH. If you don't want that, avoid rocks like limestone or tufa.
Some rocks have metal veins in them and they can release unwanted metals into the water.

I would like to say that buying a rock from a fish shop would be safe. But I once did this, put it in the tank and got up next morning to a very cloudy tank and lots of bare hornwort stems with the leaves all over the bottom of the tank. But any rock that already has something growing on it shouldn't do that - it will have been submerged to keep the plant wet and the seller would find out quickly if it was like the one I bought.



If you don't like the gravel, change it before the plants start to root. It'll be more difficult later  :)

Offline Ally2

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Re: Plants in pots or not ?
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2016, 09:21:41 PM »
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The more I learn the more. Realise the less I know ! Sue please help me identify these plants and if they shouldn't be in the gravel . I think these are anubias ? Both the large one on the left and the shorter ones at the front ?
How long do they take to root ?
Will avoid hoovering round them now .

Offline Sue

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Re: Plants in pots or not ?
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2016, 09:25:02 PM »
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They do look like anubias. There are several species, some large, some small; some with round leaves, some with oval leaves. I have a few different species, and yours look like some of mine.
They need to be tied onto something. It's OK if the roots go down into the gravel, it's the 'stem', the rhizome that must not be under the substrate.

If you mean how long do they take to cling to decor themselves, it can take a couple of months to become firmly attached.
But if you mean how does it take for other types of plant to root in the gravel, I'm afraid I haven't a clue. I only have plants attached to decor. Someone else should be able to tell you.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Plants in pots or not ?
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2016, 09:44:08 PM »
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I also have quite hard water here, and have been converting my tanks to live plants over the past month or so.
I also enjoy gardening, and feel exactly the same way about the underwater gardening. I'm enjoying it.
As I'm not very experienced with planted tanks, my general approach is to just have a go. One or two plants have died off, but I'm amazed at how well some of the others have done.
My plants are generally from MA, LFS or Aqua Essentials
Anubias (lots of different ones) and java fern tied to rock & wood have been brilliant, even in my axolotl tanks, which are relatively cold and dark.
Everything that I planted into the substrate over the past month or so I would guess has rooted, the only plant that has come out was a casualty of my attempts to catch my bristlenose plec last week.
The first bulbs I bought, even though just placed on top of the substrate, are now rooted firmly.  :)


Offline Fiona

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Re: Plants in pots or not ?
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2016, 10:20:14 PM »
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That 'large anubia' looks suspiciously like a peace lily to me  ???

Offline Ally2

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Re: Plants in pots or not ?
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2016, 10:48:23 PM »
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Help a peace lily is t that a house plant ?
Something in my tank is definitely an anubias because I have the label for it . The red ones are two different kinds of ludwigia and they are doing really well and I like the colour. It's the ones in the front I'm not sure about because a few of the leaves have died off . But I've just had a close look at them and they have got new leaves on ! Must be doing something right !
I've tied one of the other pants on the bog wood as that definitely has a rhizome root.

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Plants in pots or not ?
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2016, 10:58:25 PM »
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Nice looking betta.  :)

The plant in that tank looks like something I have in one of my tanks. It is also planted in the substrate and doing well. Sometimes a few leaves die off any plant, but new growth is always a nice sight.


Offline ColinB

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Re: Plants in pots or not ?
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2016, 08:22:55 AM »
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The plant that you've got growing sideways ( ;D ) looks like a Cryptocoryne species - there's zillions of different types. They're very easy to grow, but are root feeders.

The trouble with large gravel like wot you have is that the root hairs can't get in contact with any soil to absorb nutrients, so it would be best to change your substrate soon. I've just done that and it's really easy.

You could either go for the aquatic soil 'underlay' with ~2mm gravel on top, or cheat like me. I used Caribsea EcoComplete which is an all-in-one substrate. It's expensive, but as I only needed one sack and I wanted as quick a change as possible then I think it was worth it. I've got crypts, vallis and an Amazonian Sword growing happily in it, and two different bulb types (banana and lace) rooting happily and chucking up leaves. You don't need to gravel clean 'cos the fish poo acts as the fertiliser.Also, it's black which really makes the colour of the plants and fish look more striking.

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Offline Littlefish

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Re: Plants in pots or not ?
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2016, 08:33:52 AM »
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@ColinB glad to hear the bulbs are chucking up leaves. Are you happy with how they look? I admit that I am happy with the bulbs I bought, and have recently had another delivery of a wider range of bulbs, which are doing well. I'm liking the "low maintenance" approach or putting the bulb on the substrate and leaving it alone.  :)

Offline ColinB

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Re: Plants in pots or not ?
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2016, 08:39:02 AM »
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Yep - I especially like the lace plant. I had to wedge that betweed a few pebbles 'cos the barbs kept playing noseball with it. The banana plant shoved down roots, but then lifted itself up instead of roots going down, so that's now found a different place to be happy in, but I don't mind. The fish like 'em, 'specially the Oto's which shuffle up and down the leaves keeping them spotless.

A Selection of Fish in my Fish Community Creator Tanks
Panda Cory (7) - Honey Gourami (3) - Ember Tetra (9) - Lemon Tetra (4) - Cherry Barb (1) - Otocinclus (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


Offline Littlefish

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Re: Plants in pots or not ?
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2016, 08:59:58 AM »
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Fantastic.
I have a lace plant bulb doing very well in the dwarf puffer tank.
One of the banana plants was tied to a piece of wood in the hatchets & tetra tank and has grown really well there.
The rest have just been dropped into the hatchet/tetra and bristlenose tanks as a temporary measure until I get other tanks set up, and even they are growing new leaves on an almost daily basis. I'm really pleased with them.

Offline Cora

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Re: Plants in pots or not ?
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2016, 09:07:16 AM »
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Further to Colin (great link btw, that substrate looks very good) - if you want to go the "aquascaping" route then you should really get a proper complete substrate like what Colin linked, or Tetra Complete, ADA aquasoil etc.

This is what I wish I would have done, if only to get a true carpet in my tank. But like I said above, having foregone the carpet dream now, I have quite an underwater jungle in my tank without soil or CO2.

The pro aquascaping look, ala The Green Machine, Takashi Amano: if you want to go down this route (as I do at some point) then don't rush into it. It will be quite a costly outlay and needs lots of planning. And as others here say, for a regular planted tank you can do all that with the right plants and very low upkeep! Plus, you don't need high tech to scape a beautiful tank, just some nice wood/rock/plants. Research things like the golden ratio, and how colours compliment each other (red on green is particular nice). Also try to avoid symmetry.

Sometime in the next few months I intend to start such a project, so if you're interested I'll tag you @Ally2  :)

@ColinB once again thanks for that link. I might use that substrate myself for Project 70  :rotfl:  :fishy1:

Offline Fiona

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Re: Plants in pots or not ?
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2016, 11:28:30 AM »
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I've not got any bulbs in my tanks but I'm very tempted now  :)

Offline ColinB

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Re: Plants in pots or not ?
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2016, 01:06:14 PM »
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I've not got any bulbs in my tanks but I'm very tempted now  :)

Go on... you know you want to.  O:-)

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Panda Cory (7) - Honey Gourami (3) - Ember Tetra (9) - Lemon Tetra (4) - Cherry Barb (1) - Otocinclus (2) -
Note: The user may not necessarily own these fish, these are tanks that they may be building or researching for stocking purposes


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