Author Topic: Number of Fish for tank (Read 7209 times) 25 replies

Cinders · « **on:** July 06, 2013, 03:06:33 PM »

Hi Everyone, I am going to be starting up in a couple of weeks time, as grandson is selling me his tank. It is 50cm x 30 high x 25 deep. I like the idea of a few platys and half a dozen or so tetra, and perhaps a catfish. I don't want to overstock so wonder if someone could advise please on numbers for that size tank. Many thanks.

Resa · « **Reply #1 on:** July 06, 2013, 03:45:23 PM »

Hi Cinders!

Welcome to the forum

I don't know much about tetras, but I have got platys and corydoras amongst my happy throng of fishies. I would warn you about platys, they're lovely, I have blue marbles.....but they breed worse than rabbits

So, I would suggest that you decide on a sex, and get that one only. I think, at least in the B.M. the girls are as pretty as the boys. You may still get babies even if you only buy girls, as they may come to you already pregnant, plus they can store fertilised eggs for 3 months!

I absolutely love my corydoras! I have pepper cories, (not salt & pepper) and pandas who are such lovely little characters. I can't recommend either of them highly enough. have a look on the community creator on here though, and have a play about with the fish you fancy.

Your grandson probably knows all this, but is his tank still up and running at the moment? If it is, ask him to keep it that way until you take it over and keep the filter media wet and safely transported in a plastic bag full of tank water. That way you won't have to cycle the tank and can get some fish straight away, which I think I'm right in saying, you would need to do to provide a source of ammonia for the filter bugs.
Anyhow, Sue, Steve or Colin will steer you straight with your new tank, between them, they know everything.

Good luck and welcome to fishy world

Resa

Cinders · « **Reply #2 on:** July 06, 2013, 04:53:37 PM »

Hi Resa,
Thank you so much for your lovely informative reply. Its all very new to me. My grandson hasn't got this tank working at the moment. He bought it complete with a heater and filter, then changed his mind and got a larger one, so I said I would have it off him. So I shall have to start from new. I realise that I won't be able to get fish for a couple of weeks after setting it up, but I can't wait now I have decided to go for it !
I will look at the Cories that you mention and take on board your comments about male and female ratios. I have already had a look around in a couple of shops and bought a few oddments, but will put a note on here when I get started. Thank you.

Sue · « **Reply #3 on:** July 06, 2013, 05:23:32 PM »

Hi Cinders.

It's not just a question of how many fish, but how many of what type of fish. Your tank is 37 litres so it won't hold many fish, I'm afraid. 'Tetras' does cover a wide range of fish from 2cm ember tetras to bigger 6 or 7cm fish. And with a 50 x 25cm footprint, you need to look at the dwarf sepcies of corydoras. There are three species but only one, the salt and pepper cory, is in the fish profile section on here.

The best thing you can do at the moment is look at the Community Creator on here. Click on Fish Profiles in the menus at the top, hover over a category and choose any fish. Down at the bottom of the profile you'll find the community creator. All you need to do is enter your tank volume and length and type of filter. Then look for fish that catch your eye and click 'add this fish to my tank'. It will tell you if you need to add a bigger number of a given fish, if they won't get on together, if the tank is too small and most importantly whether you have chosen too many fish. As well as looking at possible problems the CC flags up, read the profile of the fish as well. You do have to register again to save your data, the log in and log out are separate from the forum.

Ahhh, so the tank is not running. In that case you will need to 'cycle' the filter I'm afraid.
Most newcomers are surprised to learn that fishkeepers need to grow and then look after two colonies of bacteria in the filter. The fish equivalent of urine is ammonia, but if that is allowed to build up in the water it kills the fish. The first of the bacteria colonies uses ammonia as food and turns it into nitrite. That is also toxic, but the second colony of bacteria eats nitrite and turns it into the much less toxic nitrate. The process of growing these bacteria is called cycling.

The only way to get the bacteria to grow is be adding a source of ammonia to the tank and waiting for a couple of months. Six weeks is about average.
Fish are a source of ammonia as I mentioned above. It is possible to grow the bacteria by adding a very few fish but because the ammonia, and then the nitrite which will be made from it, will harm the fish, you will have to do a lot of water changes to dilute the poisons. But provided you do these water changes (probably every day) the fish will be OK. This process is called fish-in cycling.

The other way is to add a different source of ammonia, and wait till the bacteria have grown before you get any fish. It is called fishless cycling because you do it without any fish in the tank - for a couple of months. This method is actually easier because you don't usually need to do any water changes. With fishless cycling, the ammonia can be from a bottle of ammonia solution or from decomposing fish food.

You have a lot to get your head round in the next couple of weeks. Since we have some nice weather at the moment, sit in the garden and do some reading

I have a couple of 'how to' threads for you to read which explain how to do both these methods of cycling. Read them both a few times to see exactly what is involved, then you can make your decision. Any questions, just ask.

For cycling with fish click here
For fishless cycling click here

One last thought - how long has your nephew's big tank been running? If it's been several months, there is something he can do to help.

Resa · « **Reply #4 on:** July 06, 2013, 05:25:07 PM »

Hi Cinders,

You're very welcome. Everyone on here is really helpful and friendly and no question is too dumb to ask....I know, I've asked plenty!

Your grandson is obviously quite smart, it usually takes until you have your tank set up and the few fish in it that will fit, before you start wanting a bigger one! I have a 60L tank but I am researching a larger probably 180L one.

As your tank is new you will need to cycle it, either with fish or preferably without. Otherwise you will be poisoning any fish that you get or possibly even killing them

There is a thread on here explaining thoroughly both methods. It's actually better to do a fishless cycle, not only for the fish, but it's less work for you and it gives you chance to research the fish you like, the water conditions they need and their compatibility with each other. I think it's actually part of the build up to getting your tank up and running and you're less likely to make an unsuitable choice.

Anyway, keep in touch with how you're doing...we're all extremely nosey on here

Resa

Resa · « **Reply #5 on:** July 06, 2013, 05:30:58 PM »

Oops...sorry, Cinders, I posted before noticing Sue had replied to you.

She is the guru on cycling tanks. Another thought, you will need to find out if you have hard or soft water as well to determine the fish choice you make, but the Community Creator will also tell you what each fish type needs....again, Sue's the expert.

Cinders · « **Reply #6 on:** July 06, 2013, 06:21:15 PM »

Hi Sue, Thank you so much for all your very welcome advice. I will probably do the fishless cycle, as it is less hassle for me (getting on a bit now to do all that) . I have read your articles quickly, but will read them again and try to get my head around everything. As for fish, it will probably be better to have the shoaling small fish, which I do quite like, but it seems like a long wait for that !! Unfortunately my grandsons big tank has only been running about a month.

Really appreciate your advice Sue, thank you. I will have a play with the CC.

Cinders · « **Reply #7 on:** July 06, 2013, 06:24:55 PM »

Hi Resa,

Thanks for getting back to me.
I wish you luck with your research into a larger tank. Unfortunately I don't think I have room for anything larger. Will be back when things have moved on a bit.

Sue · « **Reply #8 on:** July 06, 2013, 08:11:20 PM »

First I must appologise for calling your grandson a nephew

Put it down to the heat and a result of last night's party - it is my 60th birthday today but we had the do last night as one of my sons had something on for tonight. I do understand completely about doing lots of water changes as I'm getting on a bit too

I did a fishless cycle for the first time earlier this year - I first had fish before we had the internet and never came across the word cycling back then, let alone fishless cycling. The second post of the fishless cycling thread is a summary of my cycle. It links to another thread, a day by day account of how my cycle went, plus some chatter. 12 pages of it if you like a good read. It'll give you some idea of what is involved.

There are fewer and fewer real shops selling ammonia these days because it can be used in certain illegal practices. I understand that Homebase still sells it, in the cleaning section. And Ebay & Amazon sell Jeyes Kleen Off Household ammonia - make sure it is ammonia as the Kleen Off range has other chemicals as well.

The thing with small fish is that you can have more of them

In my 50 litre, I have male endlers, pygmy corydoras and cherry shrimps. I also have ember tetras in my bigger tank - they are bright orange not like the pale amber coloured one in the database on here. There are a few fish that would fit nicely in your tank, but they cover a range of water conditions. Some like hard water, others prefer soft water. Your water company's website should have a section on hardness.

Cinders · « **Reply #9 on:** July 06, 2013, 10:30:56 PM »

Your forgiven for that little mistake Sue, and Happy Birthday. I could give you another few years unfortunately.
I think years ago people used to put water in the tank and just leave it for a week or two, then pop in the fish. Times are so different now aren't they. When I looked at the CC it wants to know the type of filter, but I don't know what that means. This one is apparently sold with the tank. I haven't got it yet, so don't know what type it is. We do have several fish shops within easy reach here (Salisbury area), so I shall have a good look around before I buy anything, but I like the idea of pygmy corydoras . Do you have to have more than one.

I will try to find your article (12 pages).

Sue · « **Reply #10 on:** July 07, 2013, 12:24:19 PM »

Filters these days are usually one of two types - internals go inside the tank in the water and are usually the kind that are supplied with small tanks. Sometimes you get the kind that are in the lid, but I class those as internals for the CC. Externals are big box like things that go in the cupboard under the tank. It's usually only big tanks that have these. Undergravels are quite old fashioned these days, but some tanks still come with them. With this type there is a tube which circulates water through the gravel.

There are two theories as to why fishkeepers used to get away with putting fish in a new tank. Firstly, there were only a few species available and they were not intensively bred in fish farms. These were hardy species that could survive a fish-in cycle. And secondly, the source of these bacteria is our water supply, but water companies have got better at killing bacteria so fewer of them make it to our tanks nowadays.

If you look round some shops, make a note of the fish that catch your eye. But don't be persuaded to buy any. The vast majority of shops don't believe in fishless cycling. The old school ones will tell you to wait a couple of days then get some fish. The rest will try to sell you some bottled bacteria. They'll tell you it will cycle the filter instantly. Most of them don't work, and the few that do take a couple of weeks. There is one make that does work sometimes, shortening a fishless cycle to around two weeks, but it doesn't work every time. You could try Tetra Safe Start, but use it to speed up a fishless cycle rather than get fish.

Corydoras need to be kept in groups. The CC recommends a minimum of 4, but they do better with at least 6. I have 7. I managed to squash one when I moved some decor to clean under it

but then I found a baby bringing the number back up.

Here's my fishless cycle. I knew the theory of fishless cycling but I'd never actually done one. I first got fish 16, maybe 17 years ago when my sons turned up from the fair with goldfish. I had no choice but do a fish-in cycle. Since then I've just used some media from an existing filter when I've set up a new tank (I have three). But my betta had an infectious disease so I couldn't put another one in the tank after I put him to sleep, so I decided it was about time I actually did a fishless cycle.
Some of the chit chat in my thread will show you what kind of people you are mixing with

Resa · « **Reply #11 on:** July 07, 2013, 01:18:15 PM »

What DOES she mean??? $:-\$

Etienne · « **Reply #12 on:** July 07, 2013, 03:54:04 PM »

Hi Cinders,

I started my very first tank back in April this year, a 60L tank. I started by some Harlequins they are fairly easy to look after and I find them very entertaining!
I made the mistake of buying 3-4mm gravel for the bottom which restrict the choice of bottom feeder. I also added some bogwood which stabilised my pH.
Cherry shrimps are good wee workers and to take care of cleaning my plants and décor although they are very shy.

I ran the tank empty with some Nurafin Cycle for a week and then added my first 2 Harlequins. I kept using "Cycle" at every water change. Eventually my tank cycled!!!!

Have fun.

Etienne

Cinders · « **Reply #13 on:** July 07, 2013, 05:22:57 PM »

Thank you so much Sue for all your advice, and I am listening to what you say. I shall be referring to your comments again and again I am sure.

Cinders · « **Reply #14 on:** July 07, 2013, 05:32:00 PM »

Hello Etienne, Thank you for your help. I am quite excited and can't wait to get started, but have to control my enthusiasm for the moment. Appreciate your comments and have made a note of them. Your little shrimps sound fun.

Sue · « **Reply #15 on:** July 07, 2013, 07:02:40 PM »

Just to warn you Cinders that the Nutrafin Cycle that Etienne used is one of those that I've never read anyone report that the cycle went faster with it. Most people who have used it say it took weeks, just the same as if they hadn't used it.

Cherry shrimps are a good addition to a small tank as they don't add much bioload. Wait until the filter is definitely cycled as shrimps are more sensitive to poor water conditions than fish.

Etienne · « **Reply #16 on:** July 07, 2013, 09:53:59 PM »

I'm not sure that if Nutrafin Cycle did anything for me but I just followed the advice from my LFS. Since it's the first time I set up a tank I cannot tell if it did save any time at all. I did read few things about it and it seems that at worst I wasted money.

I might not use it if I set up another tank. I'll stop using it as soon as my current bottle is empty.

The shrimps are so funny to watch... I took a picture of one of my shrimp eating a blood worm.

Cinders · « **Reply #17 on:** July 08, 2013, 07:22:49 AM »

Thanks for putting the picture up Etienne. Its cute. I think I may try the Tetra Safe Start that Sue was recommending, if I can find it.

Sue · « **Reply #18 on:** July 08, 2013, 08:26:38 AM »

That Tetra product is the only UK-available one that is reputed to work some of the time. The problem with these bacterial starters is that even the ones that do work are rendered ineffective if the bottle is handled badly at any stage between manufacture and you buying it. For instance, if it has been sitting in an non-air conditioned van over the last few days, the heat would have killed the bacteria. In winter, sitting in an unheated van would also kill them.
The other one that is even better than Safe Start is Dr Tim's One & Only, but it is an American product and almost impossible to get in the UK (and possibly the rest of Europe). And there is even more potential for damage to the product with it having to be air freighted in.

Etienne - since you have a tank, setting up a new one is much easier. Once the tank is mature - that is running trouble free for 6 months after it finished cycling - you can take up to a third of the media from your current tank to seed the new filter, using new media to fill up the space left. Under 6 months, it is safe to take only 10% of the media. Then either get fish equal to a third (or tenth) of the fish in the existing tank and add more fish slowly, or do a very fast fishless cycle. Just feed the old tank lightly for a few days after removing the media, and keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrite levels till you are sure the filter is coping.

Cinders · « **Reply #19 on:** July 08, 2013, 10:06:57 AM »

So, if I decided to not add anything, and left the tank sitting for a couple of months with nothing in it, would it get to the right condition for fish on its own, or would I still have to keep changing some of the water ? I find it a little confusing, the old brain won't, or doesn't want, to take it all in. Could I just have a tank with plants in and no fish ? for say a few weeks.

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Number Of Fish For Tank

Number Of Fish For Tank

Author Topic: Number of Fish for tank (Read 7209 times) 25 replies

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