Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => New Fishkeepers => Topic started by: Silver633 on March 03, 2016, 04:13:39 PM
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My water has been murky for the last few weeks. It is showing ammonia. I water change 25% weekly and it is a 180 litre tank. I have the following fish:
6 black phantom tetras - 12cm
6 bleeding hearts - 18cm
4 guppies - 8cm
5 mollies - 20cm
1 Angel fish (large) - 6cm
1 pleco (large) - 10cm
3 clown loach - 9cm
4 Platy - 8cm
2 rams - 6cm
2 Severums - 20cm
1 crab - 3cm
Total - 120cm of fish.
Could you please advise what I should do? I know I have been cleaning the filter too often (two weekly) so am now leaving this alone. Could you please tell me anything else I should or shouldn't be doing? Should I do daily water change while the water is murky?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
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:wave: Welcome along Silver 633
Someone should be along soon with some good advice for you. I have been a member for around a week and have learned a massive amount in that time. What testing apparatus are you using for your water? Have you tested pH, nitrite and nitrate levels? Do you have separate media in your filter such as sponge material with additional filter pads of a finer mesh?
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Hi Silver :wave:
You don't say whether you have an internal or external filter, as that will make a difference. Leaving out the plec as you don't say what species, and the crab which isn't in the fish profiles, an internal filter makes the tank 111% stocked, while with an external it is only 69 % stocked.
However, if you have a common plec, that will add hugely to your bioload as they are very messy fish (ie they create rather a lot of waste)
How have you been cleaning the filter, in tank water removed during a water change, or under the tap?
Does it get mucky quickly? I was wondering why you've been cleaning it every 2 weeks.
Can I ask, how high is your ammonia, what's the pH of the water and the temperature? I'm asking because it is possible to work out how much of the ammonia is in the toxic ammonia form and how much in the less toxic ammonium form - the proportions vary with pH and temp.
Have you done anything to the filter besides wash it? Changed any media?
If you have gravel on the bottom, do you clean it with a siphon every week?
How long has the tank been set up?
Sorry for all the questions, just trying to work out why you have ammonia readings.
In the meantime, water changes every time the ammonia (or nitrite) reading goes above 0.25 is recommended.
Just a heads up - crabs and fish don't go well together. The crab is likely to nip the fish, if not catch and eat them at night if it's one of the bigger species.
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Hi Silver. Welcome aboard. :wave:
Sue has asked all the relevant questions to help get to the bottom of things, the only other thing I'd ask is how long have you had the tank set up for?
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Hi Silver :wave:
I'm relatively new to this myself, and can say that they advice you can get from the experienced people on this forum is brilliant. They will be able to help you to resolve your problems.
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Right. Please excuse my ignorance. I am a complete novice who has inherited the whole set up. Therefore I'm having to try and learn quickly! Thanks so much for the helpful replies.
I will give as much info as I know and hopefully you can all guide me! I really want to get into this.
First of all I took my water to an aquatics shop who performed all the necessary checks. She said all was fine apart from ammonia. She said to stop cleaning the filter basically until the flow is struggling. She didn't say what level the ammonia was but sold me some clear slimy balls the put in to replace bacteria?
The filter is an internal one with a rectangle sponge.
I have no idea about the species of the pleco. He is very big though.
I have been cleaning the filter in the water removed from the tank during a water change. I've been cleaning it more often as the stones on the bottom are really dirty so every water change, there is a sucker machine that draws the stones up, cleans them, and the dirty water comes out through a tube. So this has been making the water really bad. In my head it made sense to clean the filter more often to make sure it was still doing its job. I know that's wrong now!
Not sure what the ph level is but it is what it is meant to be. The temp is currently sitting at 26 degrees.
I haven't done anything to the filter apart from squeeze the sponge in water taken from the tank.
The tank has been set up in my house for about a month now. I accepted 3 guppies (tiny) and 2 mollies (small) as a favour to someone and it seems to tie in with the murky water which made me think is the tank overstocked? But the fish are so tiny I can't believe it has made a difference?
The murky water has also begun since I've been paying attention to the stones in the water change rather than just taking water from the top.
I hate the crab. It gives me the creeps. But it seems to be hidden away 95% of the time and doesn't seem to bother the fish.
If I am 11% overstocked, should I be reducing my fish by about 13cm? Help!!!! Lol
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Inheriting fish is always a problem.
Don't worry, we'll get you though this and you'll soon have a tank to be proud of :)
With an internal, you are definitely overstocked, and you have other problems too, but first get the tank sorted. Though if you can find a shop that will take the plec off your hands it will make things much easier. Too many common plecs are sold, and these fish get massive - well over a foot long! And if you could find a new home for the crab you'd also be doing the fish a favour.
Unfortunately, whoever said the pH is what it is meant to be isn't being very helpful as pH is what it is when it arrives in your tank - there is no 'what it is meant to be'. It can be anything between 6.5 and 9.5, the legal limits in the UK.
The best thing you can do is buy a testing kit. The kind you dip in the water don't test for ammonia, which you need, so a kit with bottles and test tubes would be best. That way you can keep an eye on the water yourself and know when you need to do a water change. Master test kits come with pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate testers - be sure to follow the nitrate one to the letter!
If you get it tested at a shop again, ask them for the numbers. Shops are notorious for saying' fine' or a bit high' when the numbers tell a different story.
When you got the tank, was the gravel left in the tank when it was moved to your house? If it was, I suspect that the previous owner did not clean it properly, if at all :-\
Next time you do a water change, push the siphon tube right down into the gravel and wriggle it a bit. Not so much that it kicks the muck up into the water, just enough so the mess goes up the tube. Once there is no more mess, gently lift it out and push it into the gravel right next to where you just cleaned. Repeat the process until you've taken enough water out. Next time start where you finished.
Because of the state of the water, you need to be doing water changes more or less every day so you'll soon get the whole of the gravel done. Then start again at the beginning. This time there won't be nearly so much mess, so you'll get more of the gravel done each time. It won't take long to get rid of nearly all the mess in the gravel, then it will be just a case of removing what has gone in there between water changes - fish poo, uneaten food etc.
A thought just occurred tome - you said you use a sucker machine. Do you mean a siphon tube which puts the dirty water into a bucket, or a power/battery driven thing that puts the water back into the tank?
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Thanks so much. I just want a healthy tank with clear water!!!
I will ring the local aquatics shop tomorrow and see if they will take the pleco. If not I wonder if they would take any of the other fish for me? If they could sell them on? I will definitely ring them first thing.
I have just ordered nh3, nh4 and ammonia kit. Hopefully receive it next week.
The gravel was already in the tank and was disgusting. I will follow your instructions on how to clean it properly. It is a siphon tube that puts the dirty water into a bucket.
The murky water also ties in with when we started using water conditioner. Is there any chance this could cause unclear water?
So basically should I be doing daily changes while it's so murky? Xxx
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As Sue recommends, start doing a daily water change concentrating on clearing one area of the gravel until you don't want to remove any more water then top up with dechlorinated water. Break the gravel into sections and go one day at a time. Eventually you should see the water clarity returning.
My dad had similar issues when I was young which basically came down to the fact he wasn't doing enough cleaning... I did a lot of the remedial work when he was working and I was still in high school.
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By water conditioner, do you mean dechlorinator? These are essential as they remove the chlorine or chloramine which your water company add to your tap water to kill bacteria. In an established tank, this isn't as important as with a new tank, but even then you should always use dechlorinator except with very small water changes.
If you don't have any luck with a shop taking fish you could try advertising it for free on http://www.aquarist-classifieds.co.uk/ That's what I do.
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Right. I changed 30 litres last night from the gravel like you said. Water looked better. But murky again by this morning. I phoned 2 shops local to me, none of which could take any of my fish They tried to sell me an external filter for £100 instead!!!
I will advertise some of the fish free to good homes to get my numbers down but in the meantime is 30 litres of clean water enough to keep going temporarily? If I do it daily? Xxx
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30 litres a day for now should be fine. Once you have the tank under control you can go to weekly water changes - with my 180 litre I change 50 to 60 litres a week.
That's the problem with these tank busters, few shops will take them once they reach a good size because they won't find a customer willing to buy them. The plec will be the cause of most of the mess, they are renowned for it.
Once you have the tank under way properly, you do have a couple of other fish issues, but they can wait for now.
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Yes hopefully I can rehome a few soon!!!
Lol what are my other fish issues? I really appreciate your help and advice soooo much 😃 Xxx
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The problem fish are:
The clown loaches, which need a tank footprint of at least 180 x 60 cm. They are also a shoaling fish and there should be at least 6 of them. They grow up to a foot long.
The severums. These need a tank of at least 120 x 45 x 45cm, and 240 litres. They could well end up eating the guppies!
The plec and crab I've already mentioned. I must admit I know very little about crabs except that there are some micro-crabs which would be OK. But some crabs need salt water, and others need an area of dry land inside the tank. Not knowing what your crab is, it is hard to say if it falls into either of those categories.
The two species of tetra are fine. They are suitable for a tank your size and you have just enough of them.
Then there are the livebearers (guppies, platies and mollies) versus the angelfish and rams. Livebearers prefer hard water, with mollies suffering the worst if kept in soft water, while angels and rams are soft water fish. One group or the other won't be terribly happy.
You should be able to find how hard your water is somewhere on your water company's website. If they give a number, make a note of the unit as well - there are several they could use.
But as I say, the time to think about the fish is once the tank is sorted.
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Omg!!!!! How do you know so much???? What a fountain of knowledge!!!!
My hubby says we have soft water.
If I were to get an external filter, which would be a suitable one for me to get? Xxx
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Omg!!!!! How do you know so much???? What a fountain of knowledge!!!!
This made me laugh but only because I was the exact same as you a week or so ago... reading through the posts going "My god, there is so much to think about!"
It's a wee bit overwhelming but at the same time I find it very interesting. I am fortunate compared to yourself however, since I have built up a base of knowledge on the forum before starting an aquarium whereas you are needing help with your existing setup... I wish you luck and I really hope you can get things sorted ;)
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I cheat a bit ;D
I know from a lot of reading how big clown loaches get - google marge the clown loach. She was the most famous of the species.
And I know that severums get big so I can't have any.
And I check with Seriously Fish
(I said I cheat ;D )
I have softish water so I know what I can and can't keep. Most livevearers are on the list of fish that won't do well in my water.
External filters depend very much on how much you are prepared to pay. The Rolls Royce of externals are Fluvals and Eheims. They are built to last. All Pond Solutions externals also rate highly provided you are careful with them, and bear in mind that the quoted flow rate is a lot higher than the actual flow rate.
I have internals in all my tanks so others will be able to advise you which makes they like.
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:o
Just googled "Marge the clown loach".
That is one huge fish.
Wow.
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Hi
Re external filters, Just to put my two pennyworth in, I use an Aqua One external filter. It's deliberately oversized for my tank capacity but allows me to have more fish, but def not overcrowding that wouldn't be fair on the fish.
I took the advice of people posting on the site and used some you tube demos for the visuals which helped too.
More experienced fish keepers here will be able to tell you more.
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I don't know if anyone has any real life experience with the Eden range of thermal exterior filters but they have the advantage of having an integral heater and so removing this additional equipment from your tank.
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I a sooo tempted to get an external filter. My son has one on his tank and it keeps the water so clear and the tank so clean.
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I plan on upgrading to an external. I don't like seeing apparatus inside the tank and am external increases overall capacity.
I'm tempted to get an external in-line heater too.
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I'm tempted to get an external in-line heater too.
Are external in-line heaters more energy efficient for your electricity bill? It will be interesting to see what affect the Aquarium equipment I've started running does to my own bill...
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I'm tempted to get an external in-line heater too.
Are external in-line heaters more energy efficient for your electricity bill? It will be interesting to see what affect the Aquarium equipment I've started running does to my own bill...
Short answer, I don't know.
Long answer, I would imagine they'd use roughly the same amount of energy to heat the water.
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Sorry to go back to my original problem, but I have managed to rehome 6 bleeding heart tetras. My water has slightly improved but is still cloudy. Could you tell me if I'm still overstocked? Also with external filters, how much would I expect to pay for a 180 litre tank? Thanks so much. Again lol xxx
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Unfortunately you are still overstocked. Using the Community Creator on here, you are at 111%. Your main problems are the plec, clown loaches and severums. The plec and loaches will eventually need a 6 foot tank, while the severums will need a 4 foot.
What is the filter you have now? Make, and if possible, the model?
You could always look at second hand externals on Ebay. You can get some good bargains on there. The main thing to check if you do end up with one is that the seals are still in good condition, but if not they are easily replaced.
If you do get an external, don't just throw away the internal. Use the internal's media (sponge etc) to avoid having to cycle the external.
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The filter we have is aquael fan-3 plus. Is this ok for our tank? Should I try to rehome the plec or a severum? Or clown loach? Xxx
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You really need to rehome all of them or you'll need to get a bigger tank.
My husband is waiting for me to turn my laptop off! I'll look up that filter tomorrow.
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Sorry to hear that you are still having so many problems from inheriting an existing set up. :(
Unfortunately you have found yourself in a difficult situation and trying to resolve many issues very quickly, particularly as the fish you need to get rid of are the large ones that most people don't have the tank capacity to take on. Have you tried contacting local pet/fish shops and aquatics centres to see if they will take any of the larger fish? Or it might be worth trying sites such as preloved.co.uk, which has a section for free adverts for pets, or even the more well known sites - I've have experience of purchasing axolotls from Gumtree, which showed a seller less than 15 miles from me.
I know it's not nice having to get rid of pets, but really large tanks are the only other answer, which would be awesome if you have the room for it. :)
Best of luck.
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Are there any restaurants local to you who have big fish tanks? I helped my dad round up and donate a shoal of tinfoils to a Chinese restaurant because they outgrew his tank and they had a huge tropical Aquarium that took up a whole wall! They lived for another 3 years after we passed them on... It was so cool to you back to the restaurant and see them growing. :)
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Sorry Paddy, but I read the first 4 or 5 words of your post and thought you were heading in a completely different direction :)) . Donating large fish to a local restaurant tank is a really good idea, and visiting the fish is a good excuse for a night out instead of cooking dinner.
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I have found the manual for the filter. The instructions aren't very helpful, are they!
So there is just one rectangular sponge inside the filter. I see the sponge is hollow (pic on Ebay!) - does it have anything inside?
According to the specs, the fan 3 plus is designed for tanks from 150 to 200 litres, with a flow rate of 700 litres per hour when set on max. So using it on a 180 litre tank is right at the top end of what it is rated for. I prefer to over-filter a tank.
For comparison, in my 180 litre tank I have two Eheim biopower filters, a 240 and a 200. I had the 240 in my old 125 litre tank, and although the quoted tank size for this filter is 160 to 240 litres, I felt it wasn't quite enough in the 180 litre tank so I added the second filter. And my tank isn't as heavily stocked as yours.
I would say you have 2 choices. Either add a second internal as I have done (in which case my personal recommendation would be either an Eheim biopower 200 or 240 or a Fluval U3 or U4) and turn the flow down slightly on both internals so you don't create a whirlpool; or get an external to replace the internal, and put the already cycled sponge from the Aquael filter into the external to preserve your bacteria colonies.
If you look at the third page of this thread (http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forums/gallery-showcase/paddyc's-progress-thread-**tank-arriving-wednesday**/50/) you can see how Paddy has put some mature filter media into his new external. Sponges can be cut up to make them fit.
All Pond Solution filters do have a good reputation and they are cheaper than brands like Eheim of Fluval. The plastic parts aren't quite as robust so don't mis-treat an APS filter! The flow rate drops considerably once media is added - the quoted flow rates are without media - so look at the 1400 litre per hour models or even the 2000. You don't need UV, so it's not worth paying extra just for that. This (http://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/aquarium/aquarium-filters/external-filters/?brand=allpondsolutions&page=1) is the company's page, you might well get them cheaper elsewhere.
With all filters, you don't need carbon. If whatever you buy comes with carbon, just leave that out and get more sponge/ceramic noodles etc.
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Sorry Paddy, but I read the first 4 or 5 words of your post and thought you were heading in a completely different direction :)) . Donating large fish to a local restaurant tank is a really good idea, and visiting the fish is a good excuse for a night out instead of cooking dinner.
:rotfl:
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Right. The next instalment!!! I have managed to get the plec and largest severum rehomed. They are getting collected later today. Will this make my tank stock ok? Or still over? I really want a clear tank instead of the cloudy one I have at the moment.
I would love an external filter but money is tight at the moment so it will have to be a purchase I look into at a later date xxx
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Right. The next instalment!!! I have managed to get the plec and largest severum rehomed. They are getting collected later today. Will this make my tank stock ok? Or still over? I really want a clear tank instead of the cloudy one I have at the moment.
I would love an external filter but money is tight at the moment so it will have to be a purchase I look into at a later date xxx
Have you found a home for the Clown Loach too? They need a tank of around 6foot otherwise they will become stunted.
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Not yet! I'm working on it lol xxx
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Well done on the plec and severum. If you can rehome the loaches as well, just leaving the one severum, that would be much better.
So you will have left the black phantoms, guppies, mollies, platies, angelfish, rams and one severum. That is so much better! Once you reduce your fish numbers, you'll find your water quality improves as the same number of bacteria will be dealing with less fish waste, both solid and ammonia.
If the water is still cloudy, something you could try is filter wool. That's the white fluffy stuff you might have seen in fish shops. If you could manage to squeeze a layer of it on top of the sponge in the filter, that would help to 'polish' the water. It would need replacing weekly but as it is not a very good home for the bacteria that wouldn't matter. You can buy filter wool by the metre at shops that sell pond fish (pond filters use lots of it)
Have you still got the crab?
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The clown loaches are really tiny so hopefully they are OK in my tank until I can get a home for them as well.
So tonight after the plec and larger severum have gone, shall I do a water change to get rid of some of the cloudy water? If so, how much would you change? Also am I right in not squeezing the sponge out in the filter yet? Am I naive to hope my water will be clear soon? Lol fingers crossed!!! Xxx
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What are your ammonia and nitrite levels?
After removing the two fish tonight, you may find you water is cloudier simply because of stirring things up trying to catch them. In which case, definitely do a water change.
Leave it a day or so, then try cleaning the filter. Squeeze it very gently in some tank water - take a bit out if you aren't doing a water change.
And keep on cleaning the gravel.
Clown loaches do grow slowly so you have time to rehome them. But don't leave it too long or they'll become stunted as Simon said.
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Don't know my levels. My testing kit hasn't arrived yet. I might do a water change tonight and take a sample into my local shop tomorrow for them to test if mine still hasn't arrived by then. How many litres shall I change? Water very cloudy at the minute xxx
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I would change as much as you can manage, up to about half the tank. I do realise that by the time you've caught the fish and the person taking them has gone you may not really feel like doing a water change but the more you can manage the better.
And clean a patch of gravel at the same time.
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I honestly can't thank you enough. You have been sooooo helpful. I will change as much water as I can and hopefully wake up tomorrow to a clear tank!!!! 🐠 Xxx
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I will be keeping my fingers crossed for you.
:)
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If the water doesn't clear, try filter wool. It's quite cheap bought from a roll.
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Good luck Silver. It's great that you came seeking advice. I'm sure you'll get on top of it soon. :cheers:
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Thanks so much. Everyone on here have been amazing. The severum and plec just gone so I've emptied tank halfway down. Will refill throughout the night keeping an eye on the temp. Fingers crossed it will solve my murky water issues. If not I will try the filter wool xxx
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You're doing really well dealing with the inherited fish and cloudy water. I am exhausted just reading the posts!
I am sure with Sue's and everyone else's help your tank will get sorted and you will be able to relax and enjoy just watching your fish rather than constantly doing water changes and worrying about the fish and water conditions.
So don't give up, all your hard work will be worth it.
Anne
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Hurray!!!!! The tank has improved greatly!!!! Still not crystal clear but I suppose its still hot half cloudy water in with me doing a half water change. Soooo much better than before.
Question now is, do I go back to weekly 25% water changes? Or do it more often til it's totally clear? Also when do I squeeze the filter out and how often in the future? Xxx
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Continue doing daily water changes (they don't need to be huge) until the test kit arrives, then be guided by the results. Test daily at first. Any time you see a reading for ammonia or nitrite above zero, do a water change. Once you are sure that both have been zero for a week, then you can go to weekly, 25% water water changes.
Hopefully, now that some of the large fish have gone the bacteria will be more than enough to deal with the ammonia made by the remaining fish, but keep on with water changes till you have the test kit to prove it.
Have a look at the filter sponge once a week. If it looks disgusting, gently squeeze it in old tank water. If it doesn't look disgusting, put it back till the next check. You'll soon get to know how often you need to clean it.
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Silver, great to hear you're seeing an improvement. Things will also be improving for the fish as well, you'll take pride from knowing you're improving their home for them. The one thing that a lot of people don't realise (and fall foul of) is that more regular small maintenance on anything prevents having to do major work to fix a problem. It goes for anything from Fish tanks to Army Tanks!
In time, you should achieve a lovely clear Aquarium you'll be able to show off and enjoy.
Have you taken any pics of the tank at it's worst? If so, you would have a great before and after shot to post here... Hint hint ;)
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Hi Silver.
Glad to hear that the tank is looking better.
Keep up the good work, it is worth the effort.
:)
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Unfortunately my clear water didn't last and I still have a cloudy tank. My hubby did research and has said that it could be either an algae boom or something like that? He also said that it might be that the sun shines straight in on the tank for the first half of the day? Does anyone know what else we could try? Or what else it could be? I will get the filter wool at the weekend but because the tank was clear without it before, it makes me think there is some other problem. Again, any advice would be very much appreciated xxx
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Sunlight is renowned for causing algae problems - I would definitely find a way to stop this reaching the tank. You'll get some further advise from others more qualified than myself shortly I'm sure but I feel confident enough to say that you should taking action here first thing this morning to start to bring this back into control. Good luck!
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Thanks for that. I'm willing to try anything!!!! We have tested all the levels in the tank and everything is good!!! Would it be ok to put a blanket over the tank while the sun is shining on it? Or would it be better to close the curtains? Xxx
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Closing the curtains is the safe option for now, I'm late for work but blankets are good too - explore this with you later.
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Would you describe the cloudiness as milky white or greeny coloured?
Green would indicate algae and white would indicate a bacterial bloom.
Both require different approaches to deal with.
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It's more of a cloudy yellow colour? Xxx
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Do you have any wood in your tank?
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Yes a massive bit in the middle. It is actually covered in green stuff. Algae I presume? So what should I do? Xxx
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The wood in the tank might still be releasing tannins, which makes the water look like a weak tea colour. How long has the wood been in the tank? Did you inherit it with the set up? Any chance you could take some photo of the tank, wood, green bits etc. for us to look at? This may help with the diagnosis.
:)
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I already typed and posted this but it froze. Apologies if it posts twice!!! We inherited the wood but it was ok in the tank for a few months before the tank went cloudy. I've attached pics to try and help. I really want to sort this out!!! Any ideas? Xxx
It won't let me post pics from my camera roll. Wrong format
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Fair enough, sounds like it's not tannins.
It might take a while for all the ideas and suggestions to make their way to the forum, but hang on in there.
What are your water parameters? Do you have hard or soft water? Have you tried to change the pH recently? Has anything else happened in the tank? The more information that you can give us, how ever irrelevant it may sound, the better.
:)
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Wonder if it's the algae? The wood never had green on it before? I can send you pics to your email if you think it would help you seeing it?
Two things changed at the time of the cloudy water. We gained 6 additional fish, and started cleaning the pebbles for a water change rather than just scooping water out. Now looking back it might have also started getting sunny then as well. The sun shines straight on the tank for the first part of the day.
We eliminated the fact that we added fish, by rehoming 8 (including 2 large).
I just don't know what to do? I am so desperate for clear water so I can watch the fish again lol. Sad I know xxx
Should I lift the big bit of wood out and clean all the algae off???
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White cloudy can also be algae, I learned recently!
If it is algae, one thing should get rid of it, but it will likely come back unless you also cure the cause. But at least you'll know if it is algae or something else.
The treatment doesn't look very nice I'm afraid. It is simply covering the entire tank with something that will block all light, turning the tank lights off and leaving the tank like that for 3 days. Don't even unwrap a corner to feed the fish; they will be fine without food for 3 days.
If it is an algae bloom - microscopic algae floating in the water - they should be gone when you remove the wrapping. If it hasn't gone, it's something else.
But even if it turns out to be something else it is worth finding a way to screen the sunlight from the tank, whether it is drawing the curtain or even using a free standing decorative screen. And if the cloudiness has gone when you unwrap the tank, you don't want it coming back, so you'll still need to stop sunlight shining on the tank.
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So if i do this, should I take the big piece of wood out first? To clean the algae off that is stuck to it? Also, should I do a water change before? Check the filter isn't disgusting? Lol.
So I literally block all light for 3 whole days? And they will be ok without food? Wow that's impressive! Xxx
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It is worth cleaning the wood and the tank, and check the filter first.
Yes, literally block all the light. Fish can go without food for 7 to 10 days. This is why it is better to just leave them rather than use one of those holiday blocks if your holiday lasts 7 to 10 days.
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If the woods only been in the tank a few months it will still be leaching tanins into the water and that would explain the yellowing.
If fine filter wool hasn't sorted the cloudiness its not a particulate problem. Sue's suggestion will rule out an algae problem, I used this method for a week on my son's tank to get rid of black hair algae.
I actually had cloudy milky water in my 200l, I think I hit a gas pocket when I was putting in some new plants and it triggered a bacteria bloom. I added the day 1 dose of Esha 2000 to the tank and the next day it was clear. Of course I then had to get the meds back out of the water which meant fiddling with the filter and it meant I'd subjected healthy fish to medication, so this would be a last resort.
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The wood was in the tank before, just owned by someone else. It's an old piece.
The more I read, the more I'm thinking algae from the sunlight. I think I'll try what you said Sue. Sorry for my stupid questions, but once I've got the tank ready, do I just tape a towel over all the sides? Xxx
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Sorry for my stupid questions
They arent ;)
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I quite agree. The only stupid question is one you don't ask ;D
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More likely to get a stupid answer than a stupid question hehe :P
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:yikes: Are you suggesting we give stupid answers on the forum :yikes:
Mumble mumble, we all make mistakes from time to time, mumble........
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:rotfl:
Paddy what are you doing to our Sue!
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Quick reply as work hectic today. NB. I haven't had time to go through all the posts in this thread, so Paddy may well be justified re a stupid answer, as I'm not sure my reply relates to the same as what you're experiencing.
I had white-coloured slime which kept appearing on my wood during its first 6-8 weeks in the tank. I scrubbed the wood every 2-3 days with a toothbrush bought specifically for fishkeeping purposes; eventually, the wood just stopped producing the slime.
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:yikes: Are you suggesting we give stupid answers on the forum :yikes:
Mumble mumble, we all make mistakes from time to time, mumble........
Of course not, I'd still be fumbling about on the Internet wondering what best to do with my tank without your help :)
In my experience of life in general you always have a smart alec (like me) ready to dish out silly answers rather than offer helpful assistance. I haven't seen it on this forum so far.... Yet :)
Plus I did wonder who would react to my above comment :rotfl:
Sue.... Are you ok? No offence intended so apologies if it caused any x
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I doubt she was offended ;)
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No, I wasn't offended. Hence the overuse of :yikes:.
Besides, I have been known to give some very silly answers ;D
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Well you are all extremely helpful to me!!!!
Don't think the wood is the problem with it being an old piece. Plus it's got green algae on it. I'm going to speak to the hubby tonight, sort the tank, then put it on lockdown for 3 days lol. Fingers crossed everyone!!! Xxx
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The algae on the wood won't be the cause of an algae bloom as they are different species of algae (I think) but if the wood grows algae, conditions are right for algae of various species.
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Well like you say, it will rule it out if nothing else xxx
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well, if the sunlight is shining on one side of the tank, then block one side... thats what i did. also, what about your crab?
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Well remembered, apache. I had totally forgotten about the crab :-[
Whether or not the crab is implicated in the cloudy water, I would still remove it somewhere....
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On sunny mornings the whole tank is in direct sunlight.
The crab isn't a cause of the cloudy water as he was in the tank before when it was ok. We don't have another tank to put him in. Would he not survive the 3 days? how is the crab a problem? Again sorry for any ignorance lol xxx
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It is only a problem in the sense they are not a good idea in fish tanks. If it is bigger than the newly available micro-crabs, sooner or later it will have a go at a fish.
And you don't know what species it is. Some need an area of dry land, some are salt water. If it is one of those species, it may not live long and decomposing crab will mess the water badly. Have you seen it recently?
Edit - google fiddler crabs and see if that's what you have. Remebber that females don't have that huge claw.
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Yes he comes out a few times a day. He's my 3 year olds favourite. Fondly named mr crab. Original I know lol.
I wish I could post pics on here. I have a good pic of the crab. I don't think it looks like a fiddler one? He's a small red thing lol.
So can I go ahead with the 3 day lockdown? Or shouldn't I? Lol xxx
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The blackout won't affect the crab, go ahead and see if it solves the cloudiness. If it doesn't we'll have to think of something else :)
How small is small? Less than an inch? 1 to 2 inches?
The Thai micro-crab is actually a spider, very small but grey with brown legs. True freshwater and fully aquatic.
Then there's red claw crabs, 1 to 2 inches, which need slightly salty water and access to dry land.
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I would say about an inch? We do find him on top of the filter sometimes but not very often. Is there a way I can send you a pic of him? Could I email it to you privately? He's a little red thing that was apparently living for months in the tank before we inherited it.
Yes will go ahead and eliminate the algae over the next 3 days. So after 3 days, if it is algae, will the water be perfectly clear again? I can't believe that could happen lol xxx
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The trouble with these blooms, both algal and bacterial, is that the organisms can reproduce faster that you can remove them with water changes, so you have to something else. With algae, all you have to do is deprive them of light. But if the conditions that caused the bloom remain, it'll come back.
What kind of device do you access the internet on, computer, tablet, phone? I know how to post photos from a computer but not the others.
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Yes i know what you mean but at least I will know the problem. At the minute I'm clueless lol.
I'm on an iPhone. I tried posting a pic of my tank earlier and it said it wasn't in the right format. I'm on an iPhone xxx
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Does Mr Crab look like this? http://www.exotic-pets.co.uk/red-clawed-crab.html
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I think that's it. See attached photo of Silver's crab.
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That's a good pic indeed. Yes, Mr Crab definitely looks like a red-clawed crab, although I have a very untrained eye.
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Since it does seem to be a red clawed crab, and a male from looking at fcmf's link, I'm afraid your tank isn't the best place for it. It is a species that needs an area of dry land and slightly salty water, which your fish wouldn't appreciate.
From what I can gather in a quick google, it should be OK in a smallish tank of about 30 to 40 litres, if you could manage to squeeze one in somehow. With sand on the bottom, a rock or something like that for it to climb onto and some salt in the water - not table salt, the kind used by marine fishkeepers.
I have also found comment by people who have these crabs in fish tanks about them eating fish during the night, especially bottom dwelling fish :-\
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And photos of Silver's tank showing the cloudiness.
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It is difficult to tell from photos, not that they're bad photos actually, but I feel that is probably an algal bloom rather than bacterial. What do others think?
I think Sue's earlier suggestion of a 3 day blackout is the best way of telling for certain.
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I think a blackout is the best first step. It is not difficult and it doesn't involve adding anything to the tank. And it will either confirm an algal bloom if it's gone when the blackout is removed, or it will eliminate it if the cloudiness is still there.
Sorry it took so long to add the tank photos after the crab, I had to resize them to get all three to fit in the same post.
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Wow thanks everyone!!! Just trying to convince my hubby that the 3 day black out is the way forward. He was thinking as long as the levels were reading ok (ammonia, nitrite etc) to try leaving the tank alone for a week or so because we have done big water changes and he thought the tank needs to balance itself out. I'm convinced we need to do a black out so I'll keep on at him lol xxx
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A blackout is the least harmful thing. There are chemicals which kill algae but I don't like adding anything unless it is absolutely necessary.
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I know I'm jumping the gun but if it is algae and sunlight, once we have rid of it all, would just covering the tank when the sun is shining in be enough to stop the problem? Xxx
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I know I'm jumping the gun but if it is algae and sunlight, once we have rid of it all, would just covering the tank when the sun is shining in be enough to stop the problem? Xxx
It would definitely help. What is the possibility of relocating the tank? Obviously we are aware that would require serious thought and would be extremely heavy even with a big water removal and stressful for the fish (and you).
I feel maybe you have already discussed this with hubby or at the least thought about it yourself??
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Unfortunately there is nowhere else for the tank to go. Our curtains in the living room are really thick and heavy so if algae is the problem, hopefully shading the tank from direct sunlight will help lol xxx
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...or, long-term, maybe some blinds for the window during the daytime as an alternative to keeping the tank covered?
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The debates about what causes Algae could go on and on.
There are lots of different opinions and ideas.
So here's my theory.
As Algae does rely on light for photosynthesis I would certainly look at limiting the sunlight. However, I believe that an excess of light alone is unlikely to cause Algae.
This belief is mainly down to the fact that I have my tank lights on for 12 hours a day and have recently even increased their brightness, and I'm still not getting an algae problem.
I reckon the algal bloom could also be caused by an excess of nutrients.
I have A LOT of plants in my tank so any excess nutrients, from fish waste or uneaten food, can be readily taken up by my plants.
Where there aren't an abundance of live plants I believe any excess in nutrients creates an ideal habitat for Algae.
What is your feeding regime like?
How often do you feed your fish?
Are your fish eating everything you put in the tank or are they leaving any?
Do you use a siphon to remove any excess food?
If it were my tank, I would initially perform a three day blackout to kill the existing Algae and then tighten up my feeding regimen to try and determine if a build up of uneaten food might be contributing to the algae bloom.
Maybe your feeding is fine, but your tap water might contain a high concentration of phosphates.
You can buy a kit to test your phosphates and then, if they are high, you can add a product to your filter to lower them.
But this is the next step after trying to ensure your feeding regime is good and any excess sunlight has been limited. Look at eliminating the easy things first and then, if necessary, move onto the more complex stuff.
Sorry for the long post, as I implied at the beginning, dealing with Algae isn't straightforward.
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Thanks for this. We feed them a small amount twice a day. The food is completely gone under 2 mins. We also give them bloodworm twice a week and again, this is gone within minutes.
We only have fake plants in the tank. Is there any type of real plant that would be particularly good at getting rid of algae? Would it be worth me getting some?
The sunlight that has been shining on the tank is particularly strong and directly on the front.
We use a syphon to clean the pebbles (which we were getting black water from when we first got the tank!).
I'm still talking my hubby into doing the blackout. But once it's gone, I'm wondering if it would be enough to block the sunlight, leave in daylight from midday and then put the tank lights on from tea time?
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It's going to be trial and error to find the right balance. In the absence of live plants, too much light is the first thing to think about. Rather than buy a phosphate test kit, you could see if any of your local fish shops will test for it, but take a sample of tap water as well as tank water. If the tank phosphate is high, the tap water test will tell you if it is coming from there or from something in the tank.
I am not good with plants, but there are a few even I can manage to grow. All my tanks have java fern and anubias (various species) attached to the decor. They will attach themselves to wood and plastic ornaments, though you do have to tie them on or even glue them in place to start them off. I also have hornwort in my 50 litre tank, though that does drop it's leaves like an old Christmas tree as it ages. I grow that wound round a piece of twiggy wood, though it can be planted or even left to float. Floating plants use nutrients quite quickly as they don't have to rely on carbon dioxide in the water - they can get it straight form the air.
If you want to get really into planted tanks, you'll need to take advice off someone who knows what they are doing :)
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We only have fake plants in the tank. Is there any type of real plant that would be particularly good at getting rid of algae? Would it be worth me getting some?
The plants won't get rid of the algae exactly, but they should outcompete the algae for nourishment leaving the algae with not enough to survive.
That's the theory anyway. ;)
The plants Sue recommends are easy to grow and look quite attractive too.
Bear in mind if you go for Java Fern and/or Anubias that they have a Rhizome (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhizome) which mustn't be buried (else it rots killing the plant) so that's why these are attached to wood or rock.
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Right. I'm hoping some of you are online tonight lol.
I've done a big water change in preparation for my 3 day blackout. I've also cleaned the big piece of wood that is in the tank. The water is actually pretty clear at the moment. So the question is, do I need to do the 3 day black out? Or just try and cover when the sun is shining on the tank? My understanding was that the 3 day black out was to kill the algae currently in the tank. But seen as my big water change seems to have done this, do I still need to do the blackout? As usual any advice greatly appreciated!!!! Xxx
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If you've got the tank quite clear, wait and see what tomorrow brings. If your weather forecast for tomorrow is anything like here (black cloud symbol all day) you won't need to screen the tank. But if it is going to come back, even subdued daylight could do it. So if the tank has gone cloudy again by tomorrow evening, try the blackout from next day.
If it stays clear, give a big sigh of relief and arrange to screen the tank when the sun is shining. Or even just light cloud.
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Fwiw, I would still do the blackout... Algae is present in invisible form before it becomes visible so I'd wager your clear water won't stay clear for long. It's like smoke from cigarettes, just cos you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.
By not doing the blackout you won't be able to rule out the sunlight as the major contributing factor. It is the simplest and lowest cost (free) place to start in diagnosing your tank.
A 24hr delay won't harm anything I'm sure, so if you do as Sue recommends you might learn something useful.
I hope this helps your decision :)
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That's great. Thanks so much. Again!!!! lol. I will see what the tank is like tomorrow and take it from there. Am enjoying my clear tank tonight. Haven't seen it like that in a while!!!! I'll keep you posted tomorrow xxx
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Go with the black out Silver and then we'll see what happens. Sue has a huge amount of knowledge, I would and do take her advice. I've only been fish keeping 3 years.
If it doesn't work we'll go with plan B
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Delaying a blackout for 24 hours won't do any harm, it'll just go cloudy again if the cloudiness was a bloom. In 24 hours time, you'll know if it is going to be the best course of action.
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I'm praying for a clear tank in the morning lol. It's sooo nice to look at right now!!!! Xxx
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That is going to be a beautiful tank btw. It's flipping hard when things go wrong, stick with and chin up, it will be solved.
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This forum is just so helpful to me as a new person who doesn't know what they are doing. If I could buy you all flowers, chocolate, wine or beer, I would do lol 💐🍫🍷🍺 xxx
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Sorry, did someone mention beer? 8) :rotfl:
On behalf of the membership you are more than welcome, Silver, this is the very purpose of the forum. The nature of the setup is that in the future you will pass on your experience to people like yourself and keep the flow of knowledge running :)
I still have so much more to learn than I already know so I am in the same boat as you. I've only been here for under a month!
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Silver, you've worked so hard on this tank you might need the chocolate/wine/beer for yourself. ;D
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Silver, you've worked so hard on this tank you might need the chocolate/wine/beer for yourself. ;D
I agree! :cheers:
Good luck Silver, you've worked really hard and you've taken on a lot of information in a short space of time. I really hope your hard work pays off, but if not at least you have a plan.
I'm looking forward to hearing how you get on.
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Update!!! The tank is staying a lot clearer nowadays. We are closing the curtains on a night so the tank doesn't get daylight until about 7.30am ish. We are also stopping any direct sunlight and not putting the tank lights on until tea time. We have bought 2 live plants (Anubia and something else lol).
The man in the shop said these plants were the easiest to keep alive and to just put the roots under our pebbles on the bottom. I've just been reading the previous post re. Plants and it says to not bury the roots? To stick them to something instead? Which should I do?
Is there anything else I could be doing to reduce algae? Maybe more plants? Xxx
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Excellent news your tank is clearing up, the little changes you have made obviously have made a big difference!
I can't say for certain what to do with your plants without at least seeing the plant and/or roots in a picture or even better to know the proper name of it...
I've been doing a lot of reading Aquarium plants, my shopping list grows ever longer and changes almost daily!
Hope things continue to improve ;)
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Great to hear that your tank is much clearer. ;D
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I've just sent photos to sue as my phone doesn't let me post them. Hopefully she won't mind putting them on for me! Then u could see what u think? Xxx
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On a completely different note, one of my mollies (female) has been missing for a few days! Should I lift all the plants out searching for a dead body? Lol. I have read that she might be having babies, but how long should I leave her before doing a sweep of the tank? Lol xxx
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Great to hear you're winning the battle! :cheers:
With Anubias, the woody part where the green stems grow from is the Rhizome and it mustn't be buried or it will rot and the plant will die.
You can tie the Rhizome to rock, stone or wood using natural cotton, and the plant will take hold and the cotton will naturally degrade.
Other people have used Superglue successfully, but if you do this check that its active ingredient is Cyanoacrylate as this is fish-safe.
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Silver's plants are attached.
Isn't the first one bacopa?
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Thanks sue 😘
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The first one definitely looks like bacopa. If it is I'm quite jealous as this is right at the top of my plant wish list. With a 70cm tall tank this stuff has the potential to give me some nice tall backdrop to it :)
I'm still trying to identify the second plant
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Certainly looks like bacopa, do the leaves smell when you crush one? That'll grow really well ifff you stick it i the substrate, I'd advise planting the stems reasonably close together but individually, they'll hopeefully bush out a bit then.
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And the second one certainly looks like a variety of Anubias.
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The second plant is an anubias, and one that is flowering. I know this because I have one that looks almost identical.
I've been going through my plant labels. I have 5 species of anubias but only 2 labels. I know it isn't A hastifolia (1 of the labels) as that's the one on the thin spindly wood. It's not A barteri coffeefolia as that's on the same piece of wood as the wendelov java fern. It's not A lanceolata because that's the one on the mangrove root. That leaves 2 plants and 1 label. The label is A. nana Bonzai, but is that the tiny one that there are clumps of in the 50 litre and the big tank which I've had for years, or is it the big leaved plant on the piece of wood at the back of the main tank which looks like Silver's plant? And what is the name of 5th plant?
Edit - bonsai, as you would expect, is "The smallest Anubias variety in the trade" according to one site I've found so that's the tiny one I've had for years. Which means the one I can't find a label for and can't remember the name is the one that looks like Silver's.
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A potentially whacking great anubia :) I have one like that but I don't keep the labels unfortunately. They're all pretty much slow growing and hardy but they do need to be attached to something or allowed to float.
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anubias barteri var. caladiifolia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anubias_barteri_var._caladiifolia)perhaps?
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Could be but there's a huge range of anubias that look similar.