Author Topic: New to fish keeping (Read 75177 times) 171 replies

Resa · « **Reply #120 on:** March 10, 2013, 10:16:23 PM »

I'VE DONE IT!!! You'll probably tell me off but......I've bought fishes!!! I'd had 5 days solid of zero readings so I went to have a look at the fish selection at the big store, (where we set off to look the other day when we got a puncture!). I didn't expect them to have all the fish on my list, and as you know (Sue) I had researched my choice of fish quite thoroughly and got it down exactly to what I thought I had settled on. Mmm...well, you should always be prepared to think again, I say. So, I got the guppies I had on my list, 5 in the end not 7, 3 sweet little otos, 3 gorgeous blue marble platies and a beautiful colisa lalia in a fetching shade of powder blue, (which happens to be my favourite colour). I did have rainbow fish on my original list as well as blue tetras, but Sue said I could have one or the other because of the numbers needed. Anyway, when I saw the rainbows in the shop I wasn't that taken with them so they're off the list! They had some blue tetras in a huge display tank but they weren't for sale, but they are getting some in next week. I shall go and look at them again but I might not be able to have them depending on any tweaks I make to my others. The platies weren't on my list but they were so-ooo lovely, I have a little boy and two little girls...although since I got them, (Thursday) one of the little girls seems to me to have become a little plump!! I understand that one of the reasons to suspect your platy may be pregnant is because she is a platy

. Likewise the otos weren't on my list, but I couldn't resist them, they're sweet little fellows and they are so busy chomping around the tank.
Now my fishy friends, I need help! I am completely confused about my colisa. I have read until I've gone cross-eyed about them to see if I should keep him on his own or not, and people say keep them in pairs, then others say keep several. then someone else says no, they must be kept alone, then unless you bought a pair at the same time you can't add a mate later......aagh! How is a person supposed to know what to do? One of the shops was selling them in pairs, but of course, we all know you can't trust the shops, so, I figure you have all had such good advice, I would be guided by any of you who have experience in this lovely fish.....what should I do, please? I am also wondering if I should increase the number of platies from three to say, five-ish? I would still like to get my little panda cories too though, and Sue said I should have six of those so I have to watch my allowance. Both the stores had them and they are really cute but I want them all to be happy so I don't want to overcrowd them. All thoughts much appreciated.
One of the smaller guppies was picking on two of the slightly bigger ones and I even caught the little devil tail-nipping them! I was going to whip him out and put him on the naughty step, but then I read somewhere that when they are all in the big tanks in the shops they have their alpha male sorted out, then we go along and buy a handful of them and they are in a new group and have to sort out their pecking order again. Having had chooks for donkeys years I know about pecking order and how strict it is so this kind of made sense to me. Anyway, the upshot is, I left him where he was and kept a close eye on him, (to tell the truth, I have barely stopped looking at them all since they arrived, I have been bewitched), and he seems to have remembered his manners now and is behaving.....mostly.
Anyway, I have rambled, I'm just so excited to have them at last! My 'other half' just looks at me and rolls his eyes heavenwards....he says I only "talk fish" these days

I'm glad though that I did the cycle because it meant I could get quite a few straight away and also my readings have still been zero, I intend on doing a small water change tomorrow though. I know the water and substrate need to be kept pristine because my choice of fish are not the hardiest and they need good conditions to stay healthy.
Well, I hope someone can help with my colisa dilemma, also can I get my pandas yet, do you think? My tank is 60L.
Thanks All

ColinB · « **Reply #121 on:** March 11, 2013, 07:40:21 AM »

woop-woop. Congratulations on your new arrivals.

My advice would be.....

.....definitely no more male platies, two will fight when they mature. You'd need quite a few to spread the aggression around and your tank isn't big enough.

......no panda cories for at least a month. They're very sensitive to nitrates and you need to let your tank and inhabitants 'settle' and have your nitrates stable and under control (and under 20ppm). (Info here.)

.....I can't help with your Colisa problem, I've come accross exactly the same thing when wondering about getting a single Honey Gourami.

.....Rainbow fish always look 'washed-out' in the shop, their colours improve with age and a good planted tank.

.....read up about Oto's, they're fussy eaters and 60L won't keep them in algae for very long at all. You'll be needing to add blanched cucumber, courgette or similar. You could put a few rocks in water in bright sunlight to deliberately grow algae and swap them in and out of the tank to be grazed. A plump Oto is a happy Oto.

.....but mainly, enjoy your tank.

p.s. Remember the rules Resa.... you have to post pictures!

Resa · « **Reply #122 on:** March 11, 2013, 08:26:34 AM »

Oh, thank you, Colin for all your help.
Yes, I was only going to get females if I got more platies....will they be happy in their gang of three or should I get a couple more? I'll hang fire on another colisa until I have more feedback from someone. Now though, I'm panicking! What do you mean about the cucumber etc? Just cut a piece and drop it in to boiling water then add to the tank? What else can I give them? How long do I leave it in there for them.....1/2 hour, an hour....a day??? I don't want them to starve, they're only tiny as it is.
I must be mad, getting a tank...something else to worry about! I have always found fish relaxing, but I guess that was because they were someone else's and it wasn't my problem to worry about water conditions $:-\$
In the meanwhile I'll have a look at the link you gave me for the nitrates....

P.S. I'll try and get some piccies posted today....I'm not fab at technology

Sue · « **Reply #123 on:** March 11, 2013, 08:51:40 AM »

Yes, enjoy your tank

Don't forget to keep an eye on your amm & nit levels just in case.

Platies - I would stick at just the three. They can get quite large and will take up a chunk of your stocking allowance if you get more.
Since you now have female platies, be prepared for fry. It will sound cruel, but the best thing to do is nothing. If you try to save all the fry, you will be inundated and overstocked in no time. Both females will have fry every month, and the older they get the more they'll have. If you do nothing, most fry will be eaten but some will make it. Even if you have a shop that would take them, they'll only want them when they reach the size yours were when you got them. OK, lecture over

Colin's right about the otos. A lot die shortly after purchase because of the way they are caught and treated in transit. It can be difficult feeding them, some people report they'll take sushi nori as well as algae. With cucumber (or better, courgette/zucchini as it's more nutritious than cucumber) cut a thin slice the first time, weight it and put in the tank last thing at night. Next morning, remove what's not been eaten. If there is any, the platies will enjoy it too. I have a 'screwcumber' (ebay) to weight it or you can use anything made of stainless steel eg a skewer or teaspoon handle. Not all otos will eat veggies, some are very picky eaters.

Colisa lalia - the males have a tendancy to be nasty to females if he wants to breed and she doesn't. Males have been known to kill females. The usual recommendation is 1 male or 1 male + 2 females. It's the same principle as with livebearers, he can't chase both of them at the same time so each one gets time off. The only downside (at least in the UK, French shops may be different) is that this species of gourami for some reason is only priced as pairs in shops where they sell both sexes. If your shops are the same you can always ask for 1m 2f or 1m. The worst they can say is no. The other problem is that a lot of shops won't sell females because they are "too plain and boring and no-one will want them". Some will even try to convince you a powder blue male is a female (I've witnessed that!). Two males in a 60 litre tank is not a good idea

This species of gourami is prone to dwarf gourami iridovirus (DGIV) and other infections. If you do get any, make sure every single fish in the tank is healthy before buying. If any look sickly, the rest will get sick soon.
Or get honey gouramis. These are generally healthier and can be kept as 1m1f. Though I'm biased, I've always had honey gouramis, my tank doesn't look right to me without any

ColinB · « **Reply #124 on:** March 11, 2013, 10:01:33 AM »

Quote from: Resa on March 11, 2013, 08:26:34 AM

Oh, thank you, Colin for all your help.
Yes, I was only going to get females if I got more platies....will they be happy in their gang of three or should I get a couple more? I'll hang fire on another colisa until I have more feedback from someone. Now though, I'm panicking! What do you mean about the cucumber etc? Just cut a piece and drop it in to boiling water then add to the tank? What else can I give them? How long do I leave it in there for them.....1/2 hour, an hour....a day??? I don't want them to starve, they're only tiny as it is.
I must be mad, getting a tank...something else to worry about! I have always found fish relaxing, but I guess that was because they were someone else's and it wasn't my problem to worry about water conditions $:-\$
In the meanwhile I'll have a look at the link you gave me for the nitrates....

P.S. I'll try and get some piccies posted today....I'm not fab at technology

My pleasure.

For the courgette I put a thin slice in a small amount of water and microwave for about 45secs and then leave it in my tank for a day. Much longer and it can start to disintegrate into your water.

The first six months of tank ownership is the hardest, after that it's great. I sit and watch my tank for ages - I don't watch much TV anyway and I watch my tank far more. It really can be very relaxing. Just one last word of advice for now...... keep your fingers out of the tank unless you really need to do something like a water change. It's very tempting to always want to be doing something, but just let the tank do it's thing and water test every day for at least a week, then every other day, then every week. Don't mess with the plants or rocks even if you don't like where they are. You need to let the fish, plants and biofilter get into equilibrium. It will take a few months to really settle.

Resa · « **Reply #125 on:** March 11, 2013, 11:32:10 AM »

OK....first, Sue. No more little blue platies then. I just asked for three, I didn't specify males or females, should I have just got females really? Where do they like to go to have their babies? Do they hide or anything? Is it alright for the other fish to eat them, or can they eat too many if there ends up with as many as you say?
Hubby is back from his mission....."quick....you need to get me courgette...NOW!" I have tried a thin slice and a bigger piece, the guppies love it, but so far the otos either haven't sniffed it out or they don't fancy it or they'll eat it later tonight....I just don't want them to starve!!! Right, have just seen Colin's post and have now nuked said courgette.....perhaps they'll be more interested now. I'm going to do a lot more reading up on otos. Will they eat sinking wafers? Am I right in saying they do algae ones....or have I just made that up??? I hope my little fellas will be ok, I will feel dreadful if they don't make it.

So, no more colisas either. I'm guessing you can't put honey gouramis in with colisas or you would have similar problems. Colin has said that I need to wait at least a month for my pandas, so I'll be good ...and wait! I hope they still have some then. Thanks Sue.
Now Colin, thanks for the courgette tip, I can't get any different fish food for them until tomorrow as the shops are closed on Mondays.
I am going to do a small water change now, I thought I would do about 10% 3 times a week....what do you think? I am testing the water everyday and so far, zero on ammonia and nitrites. I will be good and not mess about with anything else in the tank, except I thought I might add one more plant to give the colisa a bit more hiding.
Thanks for all help...I really appreciate it.

ColinB · « **Reply #126 on:** March 11, 2013, 11:53:55 AM »

Hiya

1 boy platy and 2 girls is a fine mix. I don't think that they're fussy about giving birth - they just drop 'em..... then eat them

As for water changes, as long as Ammonia and Nitrites are zero and Nitrates stay in the orange, then I'd stick to about 15% once a week. Just hoover off poo and stuff from the gravel surface, try and keep your gravel layer relatively undisturbed as a lot of good stuff goes on in there. You want a tidy tank, not an anti-septic one. Bacteria are your friends

Resa · « **Reply #127 on:** March 11, 2013, 12:09:20 PM »

Cheers Colin,
That is what I'll do then. I'll keep an eye out for fry when I do the hoovering....wouldn't want to suck up the little blighters!

Sue · « **Reply #128 on:** March 11, 2013, 12:46:10 PM »

You will hoover up fry

What you need to do is check the bucket before emptying it. I find that hoovered up endler fry stick to the bottom of the bucket so I can empty most of the water then just net the fry out. They seem to cope with the whole thing very well. By the time they get big enough to get stuck in the tube they will be strong enough to escape the current trying to suck them in.

I missed the fact you'd got your Colisa

He'll be OK alone.

Otos eat almost exclusively algae so algae wafers are what you need. Some people find they eat them, others don't; it seems very much down to what the individual fish is prepared to eat.

jesnon · « **Reply #129 on:** March 11, 2013, 04:46:41 PM »

Ahh fantastic - so happy for you Resa! We definitely need some pics!

ColinB · « **Reply #130 on:** March 11, 2013, 04:58:13 PM »

Resa, you might find this link useful about Oto's. The site hasn't been updated for a few years but there're some good articles.

Resa · « **Reply #131 on:** March 12, 2013, 02:55:23 PM »

Thanks Jesnon, it can't be long now before you can get some little fishies! How's your tank coming on?
I'm so happy to finally have some little residents in mine.....now I've just got to keep them alive! They all seem to have settled in well...I've probably jinxed it now. I'm a bit worried about the otos, they seem to have a reputation for turning up their little fishy toes (as Colin would say) in the first month of getting them...eek! Colin says it's all more relaxing after the first 6 months, I hope so!
I did a water change last night, it was fun trying to pour fresh water back in. There I was, being all careful trying to avoid 'drowning' the fish but it was hopeless as the guppies kept playing in the bubbles as I poured! It didn't matter how many times I changed the area I was tipping it in to, they swam over and deliberately stayed under it. Well, everyone appears to have survived the experience...me included! I spotted one snail so I oiked him out. After reading someone else's (forgotten who) post I decided I wasn't going to let snails become a problem in my tank, certainly not after all this time of getting it ready and keeping it nice!
Anyway, I'm hoping to have the time later for 't'other half' to show me how to upload some piccies of my little darlings. Should I put them here or on the gallery bit?
Have been looking at a really useful site as well, it's all about otos. Colin put me on to it. He and Sue have been brilliant with their help and advice.....and patience!
Well, I hope eveything is going well with your preps and you have the gurgle of little bubbles really soon, keep posting so we know, won't you?

jesnon · « **Reply #132 on:** March 12, 2013, 04:16:26 PM »

Unfortunately things are still slow with my cycle at the minute, I'm not really sure what's going on... had a blip of reappearance of nitrite - it's driving me mad! I can't wait to get my little fishies finally! I'll definitely keep you all updated :-) The guys here really are amazing for their advice!

ColinB · « **Reply #133 on:** March 12, 2013, 05:07:34 PM »

Quote from: Resa on March 12, 2013, 02:55:23 PM

I spotted one snail so I oiked him out. After reading someone else's (forgotten who) post I decided I wasn't going to let snails become a problem in my tank, certainly not after all this time of getting it ready and keeping it nice!

WARNING: Snail lovers, look away now!

If you oik a snail out you can squash it and drop it back in - the guppies will love it!

My guppies play in the return water as well. I did think that was because they were very stupid creatures, but this month's issue of Scientific American has a report which contains the following:

[Then] the researchers gave the fish a numerical learning task (guppies have the rudimentary ability to count).

.... I read this out to MrsB. My, how we laughed $:-\$ $:-\$ $:-\$

Hope all's well with your fishy friends, Resa.

Sue · « **Reply #134 on:** March 12, 2013, 06:24:48 PM »

My endler guppy hybrids also like to play in the new water stream

Resa · « **Reply #135 on:** March 12, 2013, 09:01:34 PM »

Hi Guys!
Jesnon, i'm sorry to hear you have had a glitch with your cycling, I hope it all comes right for you soon.
I found a new fishy shop today, (in fact, I found a few, but spent too long in the first one so ran out of time for the others!) I managed to get some sinking algae wafers, they didn't look like I was expecting them to. They are little roundish things, about the size of an aspirin, are they the right ones? Anyway, I dropped a couple in to the tank and the guppies attacked them on their way to the bottom, but so far the otos either haven't found them or they don't fancy them. If anyone has any more suggestions for food for them, I'm willing to try anything! When I got home, all the platies and the guppies were all over the piece of courgette I had put in.....is there anything guppies won't eat???

I'm thinking that this wasn't a bad fish shop as they at least had all their bettas in properly filtered and heated tanks, they had some absolutely splendid ones in the most amazing colours. They had quite a range of fish, both marine and tropical. They had corys, but only albino and what I assume to be salt & pepper ones. They also had eel-like creatures, eugh! too much like snakes for my liking! I really hope the other shop still has panda corys in a months time when my tank has settled even more. By the way, what is the acceptable level for nitrates? I know Colin said under 20 for corys, but is that the general amount you shouldn't go above? Is the only way to reduce it by doing water changes? Is there anything else you can do to keep it down (I don't mean instead of water changes)? Probably pretty stupid questions, I know but this is all a steep learning curve, this fish lark. Also, should I get some java fern? Everyone seems to have it in their tanks?
Oh well guys, thanks for the help

Resa · « **Reply #136 on:** March 12, 2013, 10:01:06 PM »

I'm back! More questions I'm afraid. Have been browsing and found some stuff on Java Moss and some beautiful carpets and caves made using it. I really love how it looked, but have you guys got any opinions on it? Most folk said they loved it but some were saying it was a nightmare and they wished they'd never got it. Also, is it true that Java Moss and Java Fern help keep your nitrate levels low? I was thinking it might be nice for Rafe's (my betta) tank? Maybe even a bit in my main tank?
All thoughts welcome. Thanks.

ColinB · « **Reply #137 on:** March 13, 2013, 07:50:06 AM »

Bonjour Resa. I don't know about moss caves and the like, but java fern is too slow growing to keep Nitrates down.

I've tried a variety of quick growing plants, especially surface plants, and they've nearly all been spectacular failures. Am I the only person unable to grow Elodea

?

The best planted stem plant by far has been Hygrophillia polysperma (link). It looks good, the fish like it, the bottom leaves stay on and when it gets to the surface you just chop off what you don't want and the plant keeps on growing and getting bushier. You can plant the cutting and it'll grow, or add it to the compost bin. This has got the Nitrates in my hospital tank down to 5ppm from the 15ppm that is in my water change water.

I'm trying Hygrophillia difformis (Wisteria) (link) in my main tank as a stem plant, but I'm not too impressed so far. It's only been in two weeks so it's early days. It looks like it might work well as a floating plant, though. I've got a few test pieces of different cutting floating around and it's looking good at the moment.

There are Nitrate eating bacteria you can encourage to grow, but they require anaerobic conditions and can take up to six months to get established where water flow is minimal. If you have a gravel bed of about 1mm diameter and 3 - 4cm depth which you leave undisturbed then this can achieve this. Larger grains get too much flow and smaller grains compact too much and get no flow.

You could use lava rock, especially with java fern growing on it (link). This rock has a slight porosity so a minimal water movement through it can achieve the right conditions.

You could use scintered-glass bio-media (link) and this will created the necessary conditions for the bugglies to grow. This is what I'm going to do; I'll replace my ceramic noodles a bit at a time every couple of months over the coming year until I have the scintered glass media in my filter.

In my opinion the best processes are natural, but you can get Nitrate absorbing filter sponges to add to your filter and this chemically removes the nitrate. This will need replacing every so often as it gets used up.

Hope this helps...... a bit!

Sue · « **Reply #138 on:** March 13, 2013, 08:55:56 AM »

Reducing nitrate is a tricky one, especially when there is high nitrate in the tapwater - with that you can never get it below the tap level by water changes alone unless you go down the reverse osmosis route.

As Colin says, there are anaerobic bacteria which convert nitrate to nitrogen gas. The difficulty with growing those is finding a region of the tank which has no, or at least very little, oxygen in the water. We do our best to get lots of oxygen in there. Various contraptions have been tried over the years (eg the nitrex box) to cultivate these bacteria but none of them stay on the market long. Does this mean they don't work?
Some Juwel tanks have a nitrate sponge in their filters but the consensus is they don't work.

Mervyn has a nitrate filter - see reply 3 http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,182.0.html though google shows they are not cheap.

Finally plants - I've read they remove all nitrate or they only lower it by a few ppm depending where you look. It's obvious they can help but just how much? We need one of the plant experts to tell us which is the truth.

Colin, I can't grow elodea either. On the old forum I was famous for my lack of plant growing skills. I couldn't even grow duckweed

But there is hope for me. The duckweed was in a bag with some fish. It grew well for a few weeks then disappeared without trace - or so I thought. A couple of months ago I noticed duckweed among the salvinia and it's now growing well. There must have been the odd surviving plant hiding in the salvinia biding its time

Sue · « **Reply #139 on:** March 13, 2013, 09:03:29 AM »

Guppies and platies do like their veggies. The way to make sure the otos get a chance is to drop the veggies/algae wafers in just as you turn the room lights out for the night. The guppies & platies will soon 'go to sleep' so the otos will get a chance.
Some algae food looks like tablets, other makes look like green micro-pringles.

The other trick was mentioned by Colin a few posts ago. Put a few stones in a glass container of water on a sunny window sill. Once they grow algae, drop one into the tank (last thing at night or the guppies/platies will eat the algae). When it's clean, put another stone in the tank and return the first to the container to grow some more. Having several stones on the go means there will always be a supply of algae.

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Author Topic: New to fish keeping (Read 75177 times) 171 replies

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