Tropical Fish Forum
Tropical Fish Keeping Help and Advice => New Fishkeepers => Topic started by: Resa on February 05, 2013, 02:55:58 PM
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Hi All!
I'm Resa and have just found this site after going online for help and info and just getting extremely confused and frustrated! I've even phoned a supposed 'expert' and they just contradicted themself with every other sentence!!!
I see you have had problems with your previous incarnation of Thinkfish. I wish you all success with this one, and hope to be an active member of it.
I am brand new at this fishkeeping lark and am desperate to eventually get my first fish.....yes, I know I have to be patient and wait until my shiny tank is properly ready and I AM trying but I have got thoroughly confused...everyone seems to tell me something different! I suppose 'first fish' isn't quite correct because I always had goldfish and black moors as a child and then had shubunkins and little carp in a small garden pond. Anyway, I digress (I tend to do that), I have also become the very proud owner of a little betta called Rafe. He is beautiful and a gorgeous blue. My other half bought him for me, I think because he was fed up with me moaning "that it was going to be b***** 6 months before I would be able to put a fish in the tank!!!"
So, Rafe lives in his own apartment.
Anyway rambling on, I got my 60 litre tank for Christmas, but because of a million things didn't start doing it until last week. I checked it for leaks, cleaned it, washed gravel, rocks, wood and plants and filled it. Pump, heater all working fine, conditioned the water and it all looked beautiful......until the next morning! The water had turned a lovely shade of nicotine brown! I emptied it and started again....next morning, same thing! Now, I realise it's probably the wood but I have been told different things that I must do, from take it out and throw it, (I'd rather not, I spent hours choosing the right piece, my hubby will vouch for that and I love it!) to leave it, the discolouration is harmless to fish....anyone have an idea? Also, my water cycle stuff says on it to do a 3 day treatment, the fish guy at the shop says don't bother with that.
I'm really sorry to drone on at my first introduction, just keen to get going and actually get a fish! By the way, I live in France so chats with the experts here are a little difficult.
Any help or advice would be SO welcome. Thanks everyone.
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Bienvenue Resa
The lovely 'blackwater' effect you've got is from the tannins in your wood. If you can then take it out, boil it in a pan or, if it's too big, pour very hot water over it and scrub it with a clean brush that only ever gets used for your tank. You can then leave it to soak in a tub of dechlorinated water for a few days or until it's stopped leaking too much. It will always stain your water slightly - but that's good if your going for an Amazonian effect.
For cycling don't use the 3 day stuff.
Read this: http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,16.0.html (http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,16.0.html)
...and this: http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17.0.html (http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17.0.html)
Ask as many questions as you want - you'll get lots of good advice here.
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Bonsoir Colin,
Thanks for the feedback, I shall fish (pardon the pun) the guilty piece of wood out and begin scrubbing and soaking it immediately.
Out of curiosity, why do you say not to use the Nutrafin Cycle stuff?
Resa
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There have been very mixed results with it - it seems to be very hit-or-miss and you could end up putting your fish through the cycle if you rely on it. I think it's always best to do a fishless cycle as you can practice doing water changes and moving rocks and wood around to get the best effect without stressing your fish. It also lets you get some plants established which is very beneficial to the fish when you put them in.
I've spent a lot of time in France over the past 30yrs (we have a cottage in Brittany) and I wish my French was 1/100th as good as your English. Je suis un nul. :-[
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Hi Resa, we meet properly!
As Colin mentioned, a fishless cycle is the way to go, though cycling with fish can be done if you are prepared to put in the necessary work - lots and lots of water changes.
The basics are - fish secrete ammonia, but this is toxic to them. Bacteria eventually grow in the filter which convert the ammonia into nitrite. But nitrite is also toxic - and again, bacteria grow in the filter which convert it to nitrate. This is only toxic at high levels.
These bacteria take several weeks to grow, this is called cycling. The two ways to cycle the filter are fishless, where a source of ammonia is added to the tank so the bacteria grow before fish go in; and fish-in where a very small number of fish are put in, and the fishkeeper has to remove the ammonia and nitrite to keep the amounts extremely low while the bacteria grow.
There are more details on both methods here
http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,16.0.html
http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17.0.html
Read through them, then you'll be able to decide which is the best way for you.
Can I ask about Rafe? How long have you had him, what size tank is he in, what is your maintenance regime and have you monitored his water for ammonia and nitrite? As you'll gather from what I've already written, he could be in danger!
Colin's comments on the bottled bacteria products like Nutrafin Cycle are unfortunately quite true. Fish forums are full of new staretrs who use them and find their fish dying from ammonia/nitrite poisoning.
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Hi Colin & Hi Sue,
Firstly, thanks so much to both of you for all your advice so far, I wish I'd found this site sooner. Secondly, I should have said that I am an expat....so probably why you think my english is ok, although having come originally from Essex, there are probably those who would disagree! How lucky you are to have a cottage in Brittany, it's a beautiful area. We live in the Tarn et Garonne region so we're a bit more used to carp than tropical fish!
As for Rafe...oh my goodness, I hope he is ok. The people in the fish shop assured me he would be alright. I had looked on the internet to find out about them as I really wanted one in my aquarium. It said that you must have a very gentle filter/pump as they originate from slow or no running streams. The man at the shop also said this. We went to all the fish shops we could find to look at the fish and see which ones looked most healthy, (also to buy gravel, bogwood, rock etc). Everyone of them had bettas, one in each aquarium set up, and loads more in their individual jars. Some of them literally in jam jars with holes punched in the lids! Others were in cylindrical glass containers. A lot of them looked very sorry for themselves. We hadn't intended to get one just yet, but best intentions... Anyway, Rafe was purchased after spending probably 25 minutes choosing between them. He lives in a 4 litre tank with the idea that when the aquarium was settled and a few fish had moved in, he could join them without being too territorial as he wouldn't be first in, I don't know if that even has any merit to it, but I thought it might help. Well, he has only been with us for just over a week, but I love him! His fins have all perked up and flow beautifully and his lovely blue colour has really brightened and intensified.....please don't tell me that is a sign of him being stressed! He comes to me at the glass as soon as he sees me and seems to be feeding well, (although he only has 2 or 3 bits a day). Two days after setting him up he made himself a bubble nest. I am unsure whether to leave it or to take it away from him when I change his water.
What do you think?
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Bonjour Resa
I know nothing about Betta fish and (not being too sure if this is good manners on a forum to direct you to another forum) but there's a dedicated Betta site that might help here: http://www.bettafish.com/ (http://www.bettafish.com/)
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Bonjour Colin,
Thanks for that, I'll have a look.
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I've had a coffee time browse and this is a good thread on Betta care:
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=20058 (http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=20058)
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Resa, the best thing you can do for your betta is daily water changes, using a dechlorinator to treat the new water. Having big fins they are susceptible to ammonia burns, so keep an eye out for ragged edges. And don't forget they are tropical fish - they need water kept at around 25oC.
You'll find an awful lot of people will tell you that bettas only need to be in tiny tanks because they live in puddles in the wild. Shop workers are among the worst for this kind of mis-information. Wild bettas live in paddy field-type environments, vast areas of shallow slow moving water. They have evolved to survive in puddles during the dry season rather than live in them permanently.
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I'm glad to see another newbie fish keeper on the board! I've had my tank cycling for the last two weeks, it's a long process but I'm hoping it'll be worth it in the end! :)
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daily water changes, using a dechlorinator to treat the new water.
It's just occurred to me that France may treat the water supply differently from the UK. Do you know what your supplier uses to disinfect the water? In the UK and USA it's either chlorine or chloramine, depending on the which the company chooses, and we use a dechlorinator to remove it. If French water companies use something different, the fish shops should sell whatever is needed to remove that chemical.
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HI All,
Thanks Colin for taking the time to find Betta sites for me...I think I have been on every one! I have now removed my piece of bogwood (from the aquarium, not Rafe's tank), and am unsure whether I'll bother putting it back even after boiling it.....it does turn the water such a yucky colour. I may go look for another rock or pebbles instead. Anyway, of course it means I've got to take the water out ...again! I wonder if I'll ever get this water ready for fish!
Thanks for the welcome Jesnon, I wish you good luck with your cycling, it's really hard, isn't it, to not just get fish and put them in? It's a bit like Christmas as a kid, you really want to sneakily open your presents, but you know you have to wait for Christmas morning!
Now, to Sue's points. I have been partially changing Rafe's water every couple of days. I have kept a container of water which has had the stuff to get rid of the chlorine, standing so that it starts at room temperature and I can top up his tank when I need to. At the moment he doesn't have a dedicated heater but is near the log burner, which has been burning since November and will stay alight until probably March/April. After that, I will have more idea what I am doing (I hope), and will know if he will go in the main aquarium or not.
As for the water treatment in France, I have no idea what they use, and probably if I telephoned them and asked they wouldn't know either! The gallic shrug being in regular employ here! You would think that they would sell the right stuff, wouldn't you? But who knows? The treatments they sold me were Nutrafin Cycle and Nutrafin Aqua Plus.
As in the UK, different shops here tell you different things. For example, 2 places said I could have an 8 spot puffer in my tank and 1 place said I couldn't. It makes it very difficult for novices to learn when you get conflicting advice. I have enough trouble retaining new info these days as it is!
Anyway, you guys seem to know your stuff so I am afraid you are probably stuck with me and my stupid questions....sorry.
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The only stupid question is the one you don't ask :) We all started once and know what it's like. It's a very steep learning curve at the beginning.
One piece advice I always give to newcommers to the hobby. Don't trust the shop. There are some that offer good advice, but until you have more experience you won't know which ones they are. Until then, double check everything they tell you :)
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Don't give up on the wood. With enough soaking out of the tank, it will leach enough of the tanins that you won't be able to see any discolouration of the water when it goes back into the tank. I spent the best part of a week soaking my bits of bogwood ( a lot longer for the enormous piece I have). The easiest way is to leave the wood in a bucket /sink etc, and pour boiled water over it. When the water has gone cold, empty the bucket and pour more boiled water over it. Repeat until the water is no longer tea coloured, and you're happy with the colour. Bear in mind that when your tank is set up and you are doing regular water changes, any colour that does leach out will gradually be removed.
I have a feeling that most of the rules that govern our water quality in the UK are EU set. Which means that the French have similar processes. One thing that is different, is that I think they flouridate their water. And they may use more chlorine than we do in the UK. I spent a year living in Toulouse (a decade ago, now!) and I remember the water that came out of the tap sometimes smelling REALLY chloriney. I couldn't bring myself to drink it on those days, so when it smelled better, I'd fill up large bottles of water to keep in the fridge for drinking.
I don't know how much the water quality differs across the different regions, but there may be websites for the French water companies. And it might be easier to find the information you want, if you can read through it at your own pace.
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HI Helen,
Thanks for that. The bogwood is soaking and has been now since I read your post. The water is still quite a good builders tea shade but I shall keep it soaking for as long as needed.
I know what you mean about the french water, we have a couple of times commented on it smelling a bit strong of chlorine. Well, onwards with the tank...just want to get some fish!
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Hi All,
I've just been looking at the Aquascapes, and was quite taken with the one with all the moss balls. Are they a good addition to a tank or not? Do they need any special care? I've read that they trap dirt and keep algae down, is this right?
If they're ok to have where's the best place to get them? Is online ok? Living in France I don't know if I can get them at my fish stores here, I certainly haven't seen any.
Thanks.
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Me again!
I forgot to ask...what about a Figure 8 Puffer? Are they easy to keep and would they be alright with most other fish? I would really like one of these, they look as if they have real character.
Thanks again.
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Moss balls are apparently very easy! all you need to do is give them a squeeze during water changes apparently and they pretty much look after themselves! I'm getting one eventually too as they seem great for beginners. Ive seen them in nearly ecery shop here so I'd look around! I don't know anything about fish but you need to look into your water hardness and ph to know which fish will best suit your tank - have a go with the community creator on here too!
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Morning Jesnon,
Another night-owl, huh?
Cheers for that, I'm going to go to the fishy shops on Tuesday for a look-see (shops are closed on Mondays here). It will be very hard going again and still not coming out with any fish, still....if something's worth doing....
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Puffers in general should not be kept with other fish. They have a mouth shaped like a beak for getting into snails and they can do serious damage to other fish.
Figure 8's can live in freshwater but do better in water with a small amount of salt added. Even if tankmates could cope with the puffers, the salt wouldn't be good for most freshwater fish. If you wanted tro risk it, you'd need a tank at least 30 inches (75cm) long and 70 litres volume. In freshwater you could try very fast swimming characins, rasboras and barbs - fast swimming so the puffer couldn't catch them.
The problem is feeding puffers. They need things with shells (snails, crabs' legs, unshelled prawns) to keep their beaks ground down. If the beak is allowed to grow too long it causes the fish all sorts of problems.
Puffers are generally not recommended for beginners with the problems of tankmate selection and feeding them correctly. Personally, I would start with 'ordinary' tropical fish then once I got some experience, set up a species-only tank for puffers.
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OK Sue, Puffers duly off the shopping list...why do I like everything I can't have.....shrimps, crabs, puffers.....Josh Holloway????
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What makes you say you can't have shrimp? As long as you're careful and get some good advice from the lovely people here I don't think it's too much of a stretch! Or is it because of your current fish?
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You can definitely have shrimp so long as you don't have shrimp eating fish. Are you thinking about your betta eating shrimps? You could try amano (also known as japonica) shrimps as they are quite large. I have some in my 125 litre tank. The females are bigger than the males, and my female isn't much smaller than the betta in the other tank. The main thing you need with shrimps is somewhere for them to hide when they are moulting, so caves or lots of plants (real or synthetic).
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Resa, a suggestion for you. Once your tank is set up and running smoothly, you could set up another 20 to 25 litre tank and get a dwarf puffer. Just one ;D So you know which puffer I'm talking about, the latin name is Cariontetraodon travancoricus. This puffer is a freshwater species and they like tanks with lots of plants and twisted roots and branches. The downside is they still need food like snails as they don't do well with dried food, and there's the problem with their beaks.
If you did decide to do this, you could set the tank up easily by stealing some mature filter media from the tank you are currently setting up.
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Fantastic news....I can have a shrimp(s)!!! Should they be kept on their own, I mean without another shrimp, that is? The guy in one of the shops here said I shouldn't have one. He said they're difficult and my fish would just eat them. Not sure what he based that on as I haven't got any fish yet, (apart from the beautiful Rafe) and he knew that. I like your idea about a special tank for a mini puffer Sue, and no I wasn't thinking that Rafe would eat the shrimp, a. Because I'm sure he is too much of a gentleman for that and b. because I think I am going to get him a bigger apartment and not put him in the main tank after all. Mmm...I see now how you start with one and end up with 25 tanks!!!
So, great news on the shrimp then...does that mean I can have Josh Holloway too???
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If you don't intend having any fish-eating shrimps, look at cherry shrimp and amano (japonica) shrimps. Just in case they are called something completely different in France, these are the ones I mean:
amanos - http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/fish/japonica-shrimp.html
cherries - http://ukshrimp.co.uk/neocaridina-species-profiles/cherry-shrimp-neocaradina-heteropoda-var-red
They do like to be in groups so I would get at least three of the same species. The good news is that they add very little to the tank's bioload. The main downside is that they need very good water conditions so don't get any until you are sure your filter is completely cycled, and be very careful about adding fish medication as some contain copper which can kill shrimps. And be very careful with live plants as they can be treated with something to kill snails, which also kills shrimps. Chucklett on here had a problem with this a couple of years ago.
There is a condition called MTS, which stands for multiple tank syndrome. It is characterised by the desire of a fishkeeper to have more and more tanks. Unfortunately, there is no known cure ;D
And I'm afraid I can't help with Josh Holloway ;D ;D ;D
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Oh..what a shame you can't help with everything...
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OK ... I'll help you then....
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Josh_Holloway_Comic-Con_cropped.jpg/220px-Josh_Holloway_Comic-Con_cropped.jpg)
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Oh what a wonderful Monday morning it is now....thanks ColinB!!!!
I have been sitting at my computer now for a little over 2 hours....my bum thinks it's more! I have been devouring the Betta site you put me on to. Some useful advice but I am still confused on size of swanky pad needed for Rafe. I am almost certain that he will not be going in to my main aquarium when it is ready....I couldn't bear something to happen to his beautiful fins and tail. Also, am totally confused with whether he can go with other fish, if he can, which ones etc.
I have trawled through ebay looking at different tanks....more confusion! Some (on the Betta site) said that Bettas need a shallower tank and that it is stressful to them if they have to keep swimming too far to the surface to breathe....I just want him to be safe and happy! I thought this was supposed to be a relaxing hobby, I'm more stressed than before!!! Please don't all scream at me, but what is the general opinion of the BiOrbs? Or the squarish Fluvals? I'm thinking maybe 15 litre for Rafe on his own? Somebody (on the Betta site) said they can get stressed if they have too big a tank to patrol and territory to guard, as like they said, my Rafe won't know that I am not putting rivals in to his domain.
Anyway, I had got quite fed up surfing and was off for a coffee fix, when I thought I would just check the forum again and there He was! Suddenly, feeling a lot perkier again....cheers ColinB!!!
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Betta owners can be quie vehement on the subject of tanks. Most of the websites seem to be American so use tank sizes in gallons. The smallest recommended is usually 3 galls, which is 11.25 litres, though 5 galls is more usual (18.75 litres). Mine is in a 25 litre tank. My current betta is a short finned one (plakat) and he was in my 50 litre with female endlers and pygmy corydoras when I first got him. Then two things happened - my halfmoon betta in the 25 litre died of old age, and the plakat grew a lump. Because I was afraid it could be infectious, he was moved into the 25 litre in isolation. I've still not worked out what the lump is.
I wouldn't worry about a very tall tank unless it is shaped more like a vase (no forward swimming space) because you can put in a plant with large flat leaves that reach near the surface for the betta to rest on. The plant could be real or synthetic, though with bettas get silk not plastic as rough edges can cut their fins. Bettas like 'interesting' tanks so plants, caves etc for them to swim through are always a good idea.
Some of the 'designer' tanks that are the right size for a betta (eg Fluval Chi) are open topped and bettas can jump. With this type of tank a lid is advised, even just a sheet of perspex.
Biorbs are a love it/hate it tank. Very few people are 'neutral'. They can be good tanks if you are prepared to work within their limitations. Only small, slower swimming fish; no bottom dwellers; should be kept understocked; live plants can be a problem.
Because of the shape, there is no long length for large fast swimming fish to use.
The bottom is very small so less living space per bottom dweller and the rocks, which are part of the fitration system, are rough. Most bottom dwellers have barbels which get damaged by rough substrates.
Because the amount of water exposed to air is small compared to a rectangular tank of the same volume, less gas exchange can take place, therefore less oxygen in the water, therefore they can't hold as many fish as a rectangular tank.
The main biofilter in biorbs is the rocks on the bottom. Live plants can be damaged when planted in substrate with water moving though it like this. You can still have live plants, eg java fern or anubias tied to wood or other decor.
Is that what you have, a biorb? If you do, I'll tell you something else about the filter ;D
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Hi Sue,
It was american sites that I was looking at, and they said 2gallon minimum, preferably 5 for a betta. This is why i was thinking of about a 15 litre tank. No, I don't have a BiOrb, I just wondered about them as I believe they use under gravel filtering which I thought might be better for dear old Rafe, as they apparently aren't keen on too vigorous a filter. Having said that, several betta owners on these sites, said their bettas liked to play in the bubbles that the filters caused...you see, conflicting opinions again! Talking of bubbles, Rafe's bubble nest is now covering a quarter of his tank! Should I remove it? Or will I upset him?
Anyway, after what you said I've gone off the BiOrb idea, I can't say I absolutely loved the look of them, so I don't mind too much. Whatever is best for Rafe, it will be his own bachelor pad...unless you think he should have something for company. I don't mind having a few suitable tankmates for him and the other fish I fancy will go in the 60 litre tank ( when it has finished cycling).
Meanwhile, thanks for everyone's patience on my ignorance. It would be so much easier if petstores gave the correct info to start with, wouldn't it?
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The 'safe' tankmates for bettas are mainly drab coloured fish, which puts a lot of people off keeping them with other fish. Things like corydoras (whichever species will fit in a given tank, for a 60 litre you are looking at one of the dwarf species), otocinclus - but these fish aren't without problems - and other grey fish. Unless the betta is extremely aggressive, endlers are a possiblity. The males are brightly coloured but small with no trailing fins to trigger a betta's 'attack the other betta' reaction as guppies often do. People have also had success keeping bettas with harlequin rasboras. For a 60 litre, I would see if you could find smaller relatives of the harlequin. They have so many common names it's easier to give you the latin names - Trigonostigma espei and Trigonostigma hengeli. With slightly smaller fish you can fit more fish in the tank :)
Fish to avoid include all gouramis (related to bettas and usually fight), brightly coloured fish escpecially with long trailing fins (bettas mistake them for other male bettas), female bettas (a lot of shops will tell you this is OK but the result is usually one or other getting killed) and fish that have a reputation for nipping fins (they just can't help nipping long trailing fins).
Don't worry about Rafe's bubble nest. You'll need to be doing frequent water changes and it'll be impossible to save it. With gouramis, which also have bubble nests, it is common to destroy them in community tanks to stop the gouramis breeding as they can turn quite nasty in defence of eggs and/or fry and they cope with that.
I have a small filter in my betta's tank, but I can't recommend it as they've stopped making it. It's perfect for bettas as you can turn the flow right down. If you can't find something like that, another option is a sponge filter powered by an air pump, the kind of thing often used in fry tanks. The only downside is that air pumps can be noisier than internal filters, though there are ways to damp down the noise.
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Thanks for that, Sue. I shall do some browsing tonight on the tankmates you suggested. Sorry to hit you with more questions, but are all the companion fish you suggested happy with the gentle filter that Rafe needs? Do they all like well planted tanks like he needs, too?
Complicated this fish lark, isn't it? I'm more used to cats, dogs, chooks and wildlife! So, if anyone is stuck on any of those subjects... I'll try and return the favour :)
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They'd be fine with a gentle flow. And most community fish like well planted tanks.
Google Corydoras pygmaeus, C hastatus and C habrosus for dwarf cories. Habrosus is in the database on here as salt and pepper cory, not to be confused with the much larger peppered cory :) Cories are shoaling fish so you'd need six of the same species. What do you have on the bottom of the tank? Bottom dwellers like cories need sand or smooth gravel as sharp gravel can cut their mouths.
Otocinclus aren't recommended for new tanks. They are very picky about their food so you need to have grown a fair bit of algae before getting any. They are also prone to dying soon after purchase. It's down to the way they are treated - they are usually wild caught, and a lot die during capture. They are then kept in and shipped in algae free containers so they are starving by the time they reach the shop. Once otos reach a certain stage of starvation they can't start eating again. If you do get otos once your tank is a few months old, wait till the batch has been in the shop at least a couple of weeks (so the weak ones have already died) and choose the specimens with fat little bellies. Like cories, otos are shoaling fish so you'd need at least 6 of them, if you think the tank could grow enough algae for them all.
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Morning All!
Well, my tank is set up. I have added a large-ish sand area which also runs through the arch I have formed with my rocks, so that any little fishes ducking in there to hide won't scrape their tummies on the gravel. I am hoping that the combination of gravel and sand will give the different fish their own favoured territories and a bit of variety. I am quite pleased with the visual side of things, although I may change the lighter coloured rock for more of the darker stuff. it's funny....what you think you would like, often changes. I was unsure about the darker stuff after I had bought it, but now it's in the tank, I think I actually prefer it! I have got the tank planted, mainly because being impatient and a novice, I had already bought the plants! I have no idea what they are and they will probably grow in to triffids!!! They all seem happy and have already sent out roots. I went to the fish shop the other day (going again today) to see what fish they had and how healthy they looked. One shop, they all seemed clear and bright and he did tell me that one tank was off limits as they were newly in and were showing signs of whitespot, so I figured that he was fairly responsible(?) Anyway, I couldn't resist it, there they were, looking so cute and I knew I already wanted some, so-ooo.....I treated myself.....to some moss balls! There...you thought i was going to say fish, didn't you? As if....what do you take me for? Some kind of beginner, or something??? :-) I'm really pleased with them, in fact, I think they could be addictive too! Now I know that you either love 'em or hate 'em, but if we were all the same we wouldn't need assorted biscuits, would we?
Anyway, here are some of the fish they had that I fancy. Any thoughts on them would be much appreciated...and don't panic, I'm not getting them yet!
Poecilia Reticulata (What's this about guppies dying? Also, how many and would all males be ok?)
Colisalalia (singular? How many in a group? Mixed or single sex?)
Corydories (singular? How many in a group? Mixed or single sex?)
Possibly Cherry Shrimps
Also, I would like some sort of sludge-gulper, what would you suggest?
I did fancy a pterophyllum scalare, but think it might be a problem with guppies?
Also, I quite like the look of Celestial pearl danios and the Danio Tinwini.
Also found out about our water supply from the french website.
January Tests Showed:
Ammonia < 0.05mg per litre
P.H. 7.9
Free Chlorine 0.17mg per litre
Total Chlorine 0.23mg per litre
Nitrites < 0.03mg per litre
Nitrates < 1.0mg per litre
Chlorides 19mg
Anyway, any thoughts gladly received!
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Good for resisting the fish ;D I like moss balls too, I had some for years till they finally went funny from inside out. Hopefully the plant experts will be able to say what I did wrong so you'll know how to avoid it.
The fish on your list:
Guppies (Poecilia reticulata). Yes they can be delicate. They are very pretty fish always in demand, and breeders are creating more colourful versions all the time by selective breeding. This, and the conditions a lot of farms keep them in, has resulted in fish with weaker immune systems. If you could manage to find some local who has bred them and is trying to get rid of fry, they'd be healthier. Is there a French equivalent of the website aquarist classifieds?
Try them if you wish, but be prepared for them to just drop dead for no apparent reason. You can have all males, if you got females as well the fry would take the tank over in no time at all. Make sure you know how to tell the difference as a lot of shop workers have no idea (in the UK at least)
Or try endlers livebearers - smaller, less showy tails but hardier. Poecilia wingei.
Colisa lalia, the dwarf gourami. I'm afraid this is another iffy fish. They are very prone to infections and to the incurable dwarf gourami iridovirus (DGIV) A lot of these fish imported from the Far East are already infected with DGIV. A couple of pointers if you decide to get these. Make sure there are no sick looking gouramis in the tank; if there are, don't get any. A lot of shops sell only males as the females are plain silver, with perhaps the hint of stripes. Don't get 2 males for a 60 litre. Either 1 male or 1 male 2 females (as the males can get quite nasty if they want to breed)
Or get honey gouramis instead. I'm biased though, I like honey gouramis ;D Latin name Trichogaster chuna
Corydoras. Nice fish, one of the most unaggressive fish you'll ever find. There are lots of species, but a lot of them grow quite big, too big for a 60 litre unless you want to use all your stocking allowance on just them. Look for Corydoras pygmaeus (pygmy cory), C. habrosus (salt and pepper cory, different species from the larger peppered cory), C. hastatus and C. panda, the panda cory. The panda cory is the biggest of the four.
Cories need to be kept in a shoal, preferably six or more. Females are fatter than males, but it is not easy to tell in a shop as you need to view them from above to see it. However, the sex ratio is not important and with half a dozen you should have at least one of each sex.
Cories like sand or smooth gravel; sharp gravel can cut their barbels allowing infections to get in.
You've probably already researched them so know that they are not vegetarians. A lot of people think cories = catfish = vegetarians but they are omnivores. Feed them sinking tablets.
Cherry shrimps - fine
Angelfish are too big for a 60 litre. they grow very tall, and not only do they need space to swim in, they also need at least 18 inches of water depth.
Your pH is a bit high for CPDs, but you might be OK with Danio tinwini.
What do you mean by sludge gulper?
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Sorry....I mean like the pleccies, the ones that suck on to the glass and sludge gulp them clean....
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Also, still torn on whether to put Rafie (my betta) in the 60 litre or not????
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Plecs only eat algae not sludge ;D There are none small enough for a 60 litre unfortunately, except possibly otocinclus, but they need to be in a shoal and are very picky about their algae so shouldn't be added to a tank that doesn't have a plentiful supply. The danger with a smallish tank is that the speed at which the algae can grow might not keep up with the otos' demand. And they can be tricky to keep alive because of the way they are treated after being caught.
Whatever you do, don't get a common/sailfin/gibbiceps plec (they'll grow almoost as big as the tank) or a Chinese algae eater (Gyrinocheilus aymonieri) which not only grow too big but also develop a taste for the slime coat of other fish as they mature.
Rafe - he could go in there if you are careful with his tankmates. From your list - bettas and guppies are hit and miss. Some are fine, others mistake male guppies, with their long tails and bright colours, for other male bettas and attack them. Bettas and gouramis are closely related and often fight. Cories - fine, one of the recommended fish for keeping with bettas. Danio tinwini are plain enough not to to rouse a betta's attack instincts but are quite active which could stress a betta. And bettas quite often eat shrimp.
To be honest, it would be much easier to get a small tank for Rafe and stock the other tank with fish you prefer rather than with fish that would get on with Rafe.
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OK, I've been back to the fish shop today. They have a whole rack of API stuff, so I was able to get the API 5 in 1 test strips. My readings were as follows, (oh, forgot to say, I also got the filter activater, I tested 8 hours after putting this in.)
G.H. 180
K.H. 240
P.H. 8.0
Nitrite 0.5
Nitrate 20
Is this horrendous? Also, what do you use for ammonia testing? They don't seem to do that here. I asked about the guppies, and they apparently come from a breeder about an hour away, so I'm hoping that will increase their chances of survival when I eventually get some. They said they get fresh fish stocks in every 2 weeks. There were certainly a lot less fish there today than there were on Saturday.
Thanks for the advice on Rafe, Sue. I am definitely going to get him his own pad. Looking at the aquascapes on here, I really like the one with the large grey cobbles that has lots of mossballs with the 3 or so spiky plants at the back. Would something like this be ok for Rafe or would it not be exciting enough for him? Also, should I put some other compatible fish in with him?
One last thing, I am considering getting a little lady betta to go in the 60 litre. What do you think? Would she rub along with my proposed choices alright? By the way, they had some rather nice Bleeding Heart Tetras today, how would they mix? thanks.
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Strips are not very accurate, unfortunately, and as you've found they don't test for ammonia which is one of the two really important ones. Given that both France and the UK are in the EU, would it be possible to import liquid tests for ammonia (and nitrite if your shop doesn't have that either)? You won't be able to follow the couse of your cycle (however you are doing it) without an ammonia tester.
0.5 nitrite is a bit on the high side - if it is accurate. Once there are plenty bacteria in a filter, they'll take care of any nitrite in the tapwater very quickly but it would only make things worse during fish-in cycling. Though it could be the result of adding the filter activator. Test your tapwater to check where the nitrite has come from.
A lot of these filter starters do contain ammonia to start the cycle. But you won't know as you can't test for ammonia
GH at 180 (converts to 10 german degrees) is middling to slightly hard. You should be OK with everything but those fish which must have soft water or very hard water.
KH is high. The main effect of this is that it will stabilise your pH and you would find it hard to alter the pH, so don't try ;D
pH is also high. That's the pH in the tank? Run a glass of tapwater, test straight away then leave it standing for 24 hours and test again. It's always useful to know if/how much the pH changes on standing - the tank water has been standing a while.
Bettas and spikey looking plants - fine if they are real but not if they are plastic. Bettas fins tear easily and all decor should be smooth. There is a thing called the tights test when buying decor - run an old pair of tights over it, and if they snag it's too rough. Plants should be real or silk rather than plastic with sharp edges.
Female bettas are usually easier than males, though you can get a super-aggressive one. There's still the same problem with gouramis though. Females are fine alone or in groups of at least 5. They are less aggressive than males but not non-aggressive and they form a pecking order when there's more than one of them. The theory goes: with two one will always pick on the other; with three, two will gang up on one; four is better as it's more likely two will get picked on by the top fish; five is even better for spreading aggression among several fish and so on. A group of female bettas is called a sorority.
If you do get one, please don't ever be tempted to put her in with the male.
Bleeding heart tetras may possibly fit in your tank (the profile here says a 60cm tank and Seriously Fish is not available) but a 6cm long they will take up a chunk of your stocking allowance. They would be right at the edge of their range with your pH and hardness.
It comes down to personal preference - a few larger fish or a lot of small fish. I've always been on the lots of small fish side :)
As a complete side issue, does anyone know what's happenned to Seriously Fish? It wasn't available when I tried yesterday either........
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Strips are not very accurate, unfortunately, and as you've found they don't test for ammonia which is one of the two really important ones. Given that both France and the UK are in the EU, would it be possible to import liquid tests for ammonia (and nitrite if your shop doesn't have that either)? You won't be able to follow the couse of your cycle (however you are doing it) without an ammonia tester.
All the test kits are available in France. I think eBay (France) are probably the cheapest.
As a complete side issue, does anyone know what's happenned to Seriously Fish? It wasn't available when I tried yesterday either........
They are having problems with their server, but should be back soon.
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Hi,
Todays readings are:
G.H. 120
K.H. 240
P.H. 8.0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20
So not much change with most of them. I have despatched other half off to nearest big town (about 40 mins away) to large pet/fish store in search of ammonia test. Do I need anything else?
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Is this your tank without any fish in? If so you need some ammonia too to get a fishless cycle started and a small measuring dropper to use to measure out the dose of ammonia.
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Hi Jesnon,
yes, it is my tank with no fish, just (real) plants, but I have put filter activator in.
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Most of those products that claim to add bacteria to the filter don't work. The odd one might speed up growing the ammonia eaters but very very few help with growing the nitrite eaters. Don't expect the one you've used to make the tank safe for fish, you are more likely to find yourself doing a fish-in cycle. At the very least, use a source of ammonia to test how many bacteria were actually alive in the bottle before you get fish.
With a bottle of ammonia solution you also need to make sure it contains no detergent, surfactant or perfume in it. In the UK it is sold as a cleaning product in places like Homebase or other shops that might sell old fashioned cleaning products.
Failing that, you might have to use fish food as the source of ammonia.
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OK....Himself is back home, sans ammonia. Of all the trillions of test kits the store had, the only ammonia one was included in a professional marine kit, for the bargain price of 96euros!!! He did ask but they apparently don't do ammonia test kits at all....don't know what they do about cycling tanks then?
Anyway, looking on the net, we have found a few. Now, before I order some, are there any to avoid? Or more accurate ones? Getting fed up now....wish we'd just bought a llama...they are a lot easier!
On a plus note, I think I have decided on my fish. I have checked them all out and done my research, and amazingly, they seem to be compatible with each other, my water hardness, P.H., temperature, food requirements etc.....there must be a snag!
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Anyway, looking on the net, we have found a few. Now, before I order some, are there any to avoid? Or more accurate ones? Getting fed up now....wish we'd just bought a llama...they are a lot easier!
I have only ever used API Ammonia Liquid Test Kit [link (http://www.apifishcare.co.uk/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=187)] and have been recommended an alternate made by JBL [link (http://www.jbl.de/en/aquatics-freshwater-products/detail/2438)].
Although there are a few other brands in the UK, I've only ever seen the two brands mentioned above on sale in local fish stockists.
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The API tester seems to be the most popular, and I've also heard of Nutrafin.
It is quite possible that your shops have never heard of cycling ;D Too many shops these days say add this bottle of bacteria and get fish without explaining that you need to monitor ammonia and nitrite levels.
Though to be fair, even the ones that do know the right way to cycle (fishless and fish-in) are probably put off explaining to customers who don't want to know.
Don't assume your filter starter works. If you don't want to try to find ammonia solution, add fish food as though there were fish in the tank and see if you get a reading for ammonia during the next week. If you do, you'll know the starter hasn't worked. If you don't get ammonia, test for nitrite as some bottles seed the ammonia eaters well but not the nitrite eaters, and if your starter does have ammonia eaters but not nitrite eaters, you'll get nitrite showing up. But if there are no ammonia eaters, you won't get nitrite till there are some to make it.
Have you entered your fish list in the community creator to check it out?
Edited to add the word not as indicated by the italics. It makes a bit more sense now.
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Mmm...ok, I think I've got that. I'm going to have a look in the supermarket tomorrow as it occurred to me that previously we had remarked that you could buy all sorts of dreadful chemicals straight off the shelf, and I have a vague recollection that ammonia could have been one of them. Fingers crossed! We have sent off for the ammonia tester from the internet, so hopefully, that won't take too long to arrive.
One of the shops here, said to put the filter activator in and then leave two clear days before adding fish. Another said wait a week after adding the activator.
I have entered my fish choice in the community tank...and amazingly, it seems ok! No warnings or problems indicated.
My final selection (if I can get them) are:
Poecilia Reticulata
Colisa Lalia
Boehikea Fredcochui
Melanotaenia Praecox
Corydoras Panda
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Obviously, I know that I can't get them all at once, but must stagger it over a few months, water testing results allowing.
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Resa, I've added a word to my last post so it makes a bit more sense now :-[
Fish shops are very variable in their advice about bottled bacteria (the filter activator) probably caused by a lack of understanding. The theory is that these bottles contain both ammonia eaters and nitrite eaters. When you add them to the tank, they would like you to think they instantly get to work and will make the tank safe for fish. The problems are several.
First, it is quite possible that all the bacteria in the bottle have died since they were put in there. Bacteria are living organisms which need food and air to survive - neither of these will last long in a sealed bottle.
Second, it is quite possible that the wrong species of nitrite eaters was put in the bottle, though is less common than it used to be, the manufacturers have realised they had the wrong one and changed.
And any living bacteria will be killed if the bottle gets too hot or too cold anywhere on its journey from the factory to your tank.
Then there's the fact that the bacteria live in the biofilm that coats everything in the tank, not free in the water. It takes a while for the bacteria to establish themselves.
Some contain spores which have to 'come to life' to start growing (if they work at all)
The instructions on the packs I have read say to add fish slowly as with a fish-in cycle. Many shops say to add all the fish at once despite what the packs say.
With the reading I have done, there is not one bottled bacteria that has worked every time for everyone who has used it. Some never work, others work some of the time - in the latter case the failures are usually put down to incorrect storage.
The ones that work most often are Dr Tim's One and Only (mainly sold in the USA) and Tetra Safe Start. But they don't work every time. Of course, there may be manufacturers in France that don't sell their products in the UK so I've never heard of them.
The safest thing is to add ammonia to test whether or not the activator has worked. That way, you won't find yourself unexpectedly doing a fish-in cycle with all the water changes that involves. If the ammonia is processed to nitrite and then onto nitrate immediately, good you've found one that does work. If the ammonia doesn't disappear overnight, you'll know it doesn't contain any ammonia eaters - or not very many. If the ammonia does drop quickly but you then get a build up of nitrite, you'll know the activator doesn't contain any nitrite eaters. In either of these cases, you can then proceed slowly with a fish-in cycle if you choose that method, or continue adding ammonia and do a fishless cycle.
There are two 'how to' threads in the 'Filtration and Cycling' section near the bottom of the page with step by step guides to the two methods.
If you choose to do a fishless cycle using ammonia solution dosed to 5ppm, you'll be able to get three quarters of your proposed list at once when the cycle finishes.
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Just noticed about your fish list - if you get enough of the fish you name, you'll be overstocked. I'm assuming you want at least three guppies (Poecilia) and just the one male Colisa. You need at leat 4 Melanotaenia, with six being better, at least 5 Boehlkea, and 6 pandas.
I've entered all those in the CC (with 60 litre tank and internal filter; the length doesn't change the stocking allowance) and it comes out at 128% stocked.
I would suggest go with either Melanotaenia or Boehlkea, not both.
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Thanks for that, Sue. I'll have another read through of the threads on cycling you mentioned. Hopefully, I'll be able to get the ammonia tomorrow. In which case, I will be impatient to know my water results on Saturday.
My readings today are:
G.H. 180
K.H. 240
P.H. 7.0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 2.0
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Oh poo! Just when I thought I had it all sorted! I had put what and how many fish I wanted in the tank builder and it hadn't thrown up any problems. I have an external filter, so I guess that makes a little difference? Anyway, I have gone back to the tank builder and changed to the minimum you said and it does now say I'm overstocked. I had got 7 guppies in my list, 1 colisa, and the minimum indicated in the fish profiles on my other choices. Oh well...back to the drawing board, although I'm guessing a lot will depend on which ones I can actually get here.
Plus, I'm still undecided on a little female betta as well. By the way, don't worry...I have absolutely no intention of putting her (if I get one) in with Rafe!
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With your fish selection.... keep an eye on your temperatures. Panda cory's don't like it over about 25oC and Dwarf Gourami's don't like it below around 24oC. This doesn't give you a lot of wiggle room.
Also, in a 60litre tank, the temperature can creep up if you have a really hot Summer, especially if your much further south than we are. I have a 55litre tank and it got up to 28oC in a very hot spell last Summer despite having a fan directed onto the water surface. This would be very uncomfortable for the Panda Cory as they're Peruvian and used to cooler water in the run-off from the Andes.
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Anyone want to buy a fish tank???
No, seriously ColinB, thanks for that. I had looked at their preferred temperatures and was working out the optimum to keep everyone happy. I will certainly keep an eye on the ambient temperature, as obviously here, it does get very hot. High 30's are the norm, in fact, I don't know about the fish, it gets too hot for me! I have been known to get home from the shops or an evening out and to just flop in to our splash pool, fully dressed just to cool down! 2am bobbing about has not been unheard of either! Hopefully, it won't be too hard to keep the tank temperature where I need it as we have got air conditioning.
Managed to get a bottle of ammonia today but it has nothing on it about it's ingredients. Now, whether that means it's likely to be pure ammonia or not, I'm not sure. Unfortunately, it's not in a clear bottle. I'm still waiting for my ammonia test kit, so I can't put any ammonia in yet anyway.
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Bonjour,
Your good to go if you've air conditioning as that'll keep the tank temp nice and stable. My tank temp fluctuates a lot so I have to make sure that there's a big over-lap on the acceptable temps for the fish. Too cold (within reason) means they just slow down, too hot and they visit that great aquarium in the sky! :-\
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Re the ammonia, if you have a clear bottle decant some in and give it a good shake. Big bubbles that burst quickly (like plain water) is good. Small bubbles that last for ages (foam) is not good.
Don't sniff the ammonia! If you get a lungful it'll make you cough badly.
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On the hunt for a suitable bottle to check the ammonia. Thanks Sue! When I am safe to get my little fishes, which ones would you recommend first out of my list? Does it matter what order I get them in? Are some more likely to get territorial if they go in first? Or which ones are tougher?
About to do todays tank readings.
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OK...todays readings...
G.H. 120
K.H. 240
P.H. 7.0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20
mean anything to anyone????
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Your GH and KH should stay pretty stable, and with that KH reading so should your pH, but without the Ammonia reading it's hard to know what's going on. Have you tested your tap water to find out what the Nitrates are in that so you know if they're increasing? I would assume (dangerous) that they're 20ppm. Thames Water supplies me with 25ppm Nitrates out of the tap. >:(
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I agree with Colin.
Unless there is a source of ammonia going into the tank you can't know if there are any bacteria in there. But you can't add ammonia until you know how much you are adding as too much (ie giving an ammonia reading over 8) can cause the wrong bacteria to grow.
You could try adding a pinch of fish food while you wait for your ammonia test. It will decompose to make ammonia, and while you won't be able to measure how much, a small pinch of food won't make too much ammonia. At best it would give you a head start, at worst it won't do anything. Remove it before it starts to go mouldy, though.
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Freshly drawn tap water results:
G.H. 180
K.H. 240
P.H. 8.0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0
I will leave the glass standing overnight and re-test tomorrow.
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Just a thought.....any merit in putting Rafe's dirty water in my tank when I clean him out? I figured it must have something in it that might help my filter mature....or am I just barking???
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;D No just barking Resa. The water isn't a container for the good bacteria, it is simply a medium from which the bacteria gets food. Bacteria stick and grow on surfaces, so all you would be doing is moving dirty water from one tank to another. It's not an unreasonable question though, good that you thought of it.
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Oh...ok, just wondered, thought maybe if I had put some in along with his little plant pot it might have been a spource of bacteria to kick start the good stuff.
Anyway, good news! My ammonia test kit arrived this morning. I have done the test and it is showing no ammonia, nitrites are zero and nitrates are 20......good, I'm hoping!
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Now you can start adding your ammonia, if you've discovered it's OK to use. Since the bottle doesn't say much, you are going to have to go slowly. If it was 9.5% you would add about 3ml for a 60 litre tank. I would add 1ml, wait 20 mins or so for it to mix in and test. Keep adding 1ml at a time till you get to 4ppm. And make a note of how much ammonia it took to get that reading.
Then just follow the instructions in my how to thread over in Fitration and Cycling ;D
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Thanks Sue.
I don't suppose by any chance you think that my filter activator has actually worked, do you?
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The only way to find out is by adding a source of ammonia and seeing if it clears though to zero ammonia and zero nitrite in 12 hours. The easiest way to that is by adding ammonia solution. You'll know exactly how much you add because you'll measure it as soon as it's mixed in to check. If it's till the same after 12 hours, you'll know the starter hasn't worked at all. If it has dropped but there is still some ammonia there, you'll know it's worked to some extent. if the ammonia has dropped to zero in 12 hours, you'll know the starter has worked for the ammonia eaters.
If the ammonia has dropped (to either less than you added or zero) but there is a nitrite reading, you'll know it hasn't added enough nitrite eaters. If the ammonia reading has dropped to zero in 12 hours and there's not a trace of nitrite, you'll know the starter has worked for both bacteria.
Testing it with fish food is a bit hit and miss because it takes a while to decompose to make ammonia and you won't know if it has made any yet, and you won't know how much it makes so you won't be able to tell if it is dropping. And if you test it by using fish to supply the ammonia, you could well end up cycling with fish in the atnk.
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Ok...I tested the ammonia by shaking....... shook and bubbled like water, it is 13 per cent, so added 2.5ml to tank on Saturday at midnight. On noon on Sunday I tested the water, these were the results:
G.H. 180
K.H. 240
P.H. 8.25
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 30
Ammonia 2.5
Tested again at noon today;
G.H. Between 120 & 180
K.H. 240
P.H. 8.25
Nitrates Between 40 & 80
Ammonia 0
So, I'm thinking I now need to add more ammonia, but wanted to check with you guys first. Should I? If so, how much? How often for testing? Do I need to do any water changes yet?
Any help really appreciated....thanks.
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It looks as though the ammonia is disappearing, but you didn't give a nitrite for today - though I notice your nitrtae has gone up. Don't get too excited about the nitrate just yet because it is the hardest one to test for, and you are using strips which are less accurate than liquid testers.
Since you seem to be processing ammonia, you could try increasing the dose of ammonia to give 5ppm as sson as it has mixed in. Keep adding ammonia once every 24 hours for several days to make sure the filter can clear the added ammonia though to zero ammonia and zero nitrite in 12 hours consistantly. I would test for ammonia after a short while (as long as it takes to mix in thoroughly) then test for ammonia and nitrite 12 hours later. With the strips, you'll also have a nitrate reading at the same time as nitrite.
Once you have a week of double zeros at the 12 hour test, it will be safe to add fish. If the filter can completely clear 5ppm ammonia though to nitrate, it will be safe to add about three quarters of your list.
Of course, test for both ammonia and nitrite after you add fish, twice a day for a few days, to be on the safe side. If you do get a reading for either ammonia or nitrite, you'd need to do water changes as big and as often as necessary to keep them below 0.25.
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Oops sorry,...I must be cracking up, I thought I had posted this. Nitrites for today were 3.
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Hello? Is there anybody out there?
Right...I'm about to add another 1.5ml of ammonia to the tank...scary!
By the way, went to get a syringe from the pharmacy to measure the ammonia, all prepared for 20 questions...and they didn't bat an eyelid! Not only did they just pass me an adult syringe, it was complete with a needle in it!!! Don't you just love the French??? You can buy any amount and size of hunting knives, machetes and crossbows etc, just from your average hunting shop, but you can't have a real dartboard and darts in the bars, they've got to be those silly plastic tipped ones!
Oh well, I digress. I shall give enough time for it to mix properly, probably an hour to be sure, then I'll do a test. Think I'd better order another ammonia test kit, I think I'll be getting through the stuff at a rate of knots!
The thought that it might not be too much longer before I can get some fishes is keeping me going!
I forgot to say Sue, that my tank is planted and I know you say to cycle without plants, but I had already got them before I read your posts. Does it affect how I should be doing things at all?
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Just seen ColinB's post on Jesnon's thread! Congratulations on your new arrivals! What sort of shrimps are they? Have you spotted any of the babies yet?
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If you have a reading for nitrites, it would seem that your filter activator was one of those that seeds the filter with the ammonia eaters but either doesn't do anything for the nitrite eaters or doesn't do enough. You will need to keep adding ammonia till the nitrite also drops to zero in 12 hours.
Add ammonia when the reading for that drops to zero. But even if it drops in 12 hours, don't add another dose till 24 hours after you added the last dose or you'll get enormous amounts of nitrite in the tank, which can inhibit the growth of the nitrite eaters.
Plants use ammonia and nitrate as food, but they don't use nitrite. Depending on just how many plants you have (one or two, or like a jungle) they could be using some of the ammonia you are adding but there will still be some left for the ammonia eateing bacteria to turn into nitrite. When you see your ammonia reading fall, there is the possibility that it's the plants as well as the bacteria removing it. But because plants don't use nitrite, you can use that to follow the progress of the cycle. So long as the ammonia is going it doesn't matter what is using it, but you must make sure all the nitrite is going as well before getting fish.
The only other downside to having plants is that you may get algae on them. You have to have the lights on or the plants die, and this encourages algae growth. And the ammonia in the water also encourgaes algae, so a double hit.
I usually disappear about 7.30pm ;D
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Morning Sue, thanks for that. I have 8 plants in the tank plus 3 moss balls...who I have called 'the Moss Bros'. I absolutely love them and they seem to be more than little balls of algae. I think I could get addicted to them!!!
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Just seen ColinB's post on Jesnon's thread! Congratulations on your new arrivals! What sort of shrimps are they? Have you spotted any of the babies yet?
Merci Resa. They're Red Cherry Shrimps of the Fire Red variety (Neocaridina heteropoda var. Fire Red) and I spotted a couple of shrimplets last night and one this morning. However; if they're spotted by a fish they're a gonna, they are brine shrimp size and a tasty morsel. I've got so many hiding places in the tank so why, oh why, did they have babies out in the open. I have stupid shrimp! ;D
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I wasn't aware there were any other kind :) I hope some of your babies survive. I was looking at cherry shrimp in the shop here the other day. Apart from dropping offspring all over the place, would you recommend them? I am trying to finalise my fish list, I have made a few tweaks after advice from Sue. I'm thinking of my choices, that probably rainbow fish would be the best to get first.....what do you think?
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The shrimp are doing nothing at the moment apart from sitting in a floating plant. I've only had them 5 days so it's a bit early to tell, they may be just getting used to things or they may well be very lazy. :)
The fish (cherry barbs, 5-band barbs, guppies and a platy) ignore them. I'll post if anything changes but I'm a bit disappointed at the moment - perhaps I should've got Amano shrimp instead. :-\
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I have entered my fish choice in the community tank...and amazingly, it seems ok! No warnings or problems indicated.
My final selection (if I can get them) are:
Poecilia Reticulata
Colisa Lalia
Boehikea Fredcochui
Melanotaenia Praecox
Corydoras Panda
I don't know quite how you've tweaked the list but you could get most of those fish straight away. If you were doing a fish-in cycle it would be different.
You said the guppies in the shop were locally bred? They'll be much hardier than the ones mass bred in the Far East.
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You said the guppies in the shop were locally bred? They'll be much hardier than the ones mass bred in the Far East.
Mine were obviously bred in the Far East 'cos another one looks like it won't be seeing tomorrow at the moment. :'(
...and I was really hoping I might be able to go a month without a guppy turning up it's toes. *sigh*
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Hi Sue & ColinB,
By tweaking I mean that as you so rightly said my tank won't accomodate all the fish I had wanted in the numbers they need to be in. I had planned on about 5-7 guppies, 1 male colisa, with the rest being made up of blue tetras, dwarf rainbowfish and panda corys....oh, and I still fancy a little miss. betta! I haven't seen any pandas here yet, just some little albino ones. Nor have I seen blue tetras but the fish shop did have some rainbows and colisas. I will ask them if they can order in certain fish but I am worried that they then could come from anywhere? Yes, the little guppies were bred just an hour away, so hopefully they'll be a bit tougher than Colin's have been.
I'm a bit disappointed with my test reults today, they are:
G.H. 180
K.H. 240
P.H. 7.0
Nitrites 3
Nitrates 80
Ammonia 1.5
I'm assuming that I should ammonia test again tonight, then add more and test again when mixed. Then test again 12 hours later?
In the wee small hours I was looking at the rest of the site and was reading on different methods of cycling. I was very interested in the 'Bactinettes' method. Does anyone know anything about it, or used it? I looked on the net but couldn't see anywhere to buy it. Anyway, just curious...
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Bactinettes was the only 'bottled bacteria' sold in the UK at that time that worked. It was similar to biospira sold in the US. Both of these had a very short shelf life and had to be kept refridgerated. Not a lot of shops sold bactinettes (too much chance of reaching the expiry date before it was sold) and I'm pretty sure they stopped making it a while ago.
Biospira, the US one, was made by Marineland. They were taken over and the product replaced by Safe Start which is available in Europe. It is one of the few products that is reputed to work some of the time.
See what your ammonia reading is tonight. If it is above zero, wait till tomorrow night to add more. You don't want to risk pushing your nitrite up too high. That will go up quite fast because 1ppm ammonia gets turned into 2.7ppm nitrite.
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Thanks Sue.
Sorry to be thick, but I'm assuming if tonights test is zero for ammonia, I should dose again?
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Sorry, I should explain better.
If the ammonia drops to zero, top up at the usual time. If the ammonia has not dropped to zero, test again next day and if it's dropped then, top up that night.
It's a balancing act. You need to add enough ammonia to keep the ammonia eaters fed but not too much as that would result in a massive amount of nitrite.
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Thank you for all your help, Sue. It's not your explaining that's at fault, it's just me being thick and paranoid about messing everything up when I am so close to getting some fishes! Other Half is muttering things like " should have got you another cat..."
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...you can get a cat as well!
(http://www.warrenphotographic.co.uk/photography/bigs/09417-Two-fluffy-kittens-white-background.jpg)
... or perhaps two. ;D
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Already got 6!
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OK...so ColinB isn't the only one with babies in his tank! Although, I suspect his surprise arrivals are a lot more welcome than mine. This afternoon, as I looked at the tank, marching(?) purposefully across the sand was a baby snail....boy, he had got some speed up! On closer inspection I spotted 3 more on the glass. I assume they have come in as eggs on the last plants I added. How long do snails eggs take to hatch? I have no idea what sort they are or even, if any sort is welcome in your tank? Should I nab them when I see them?
Anyway, put some more ammonia in last night and tested today...no ammonia. I shall add some more tonight and see what the readings are tomorrow.
I bought some more water conditioner in preparation for plenty of water changes if needed, and it had attached to it a bottle of Tetra Safe Start as a freebie. Now, whether it's because the stuff doesn't sell well that they're giving it away, I have no idea. Anyway, I figured it couldn't hurt so I put that in the tank today.
I spoke to the chap in my nearest fish shop and he said if I gave him my list of fish I want he would get them in for me. I asked where they came from and he said they were all local. He seemed surprised by my asking and when I asked if all his fish came from nearby as opposed to a large supplier or Asian sources he looked at me like I was mad and laughed. Then he realised I wasn't joking and said no he only used local breeders. I'm guessing that's a good thing but for the first time since I have been to that shop I saw 2 dead fish in his tanks, one sadly, was a little 8 spot puffer, so that is obviously a bad thing. I suppose fish shops get their share of fatalities too. Should I avoid this shop now though?
Any thoughts most welcome....
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It is common for shops to have fatalities especially for fish that are imported from huge fish farms (the trauma of the journey, conditions at the farms etc)
Interesting that the chap said they were all locally bred. I wonder if he has any fish that are difficult to breed and are usually wild caught? Eg, does he have neon tetras (very difficult, the eggs have to be kept in the dark and the fish need very soft acid water and usually come from farms) or loaches such as dwarf chain loaches (can only breed in captivity with the use of hormones)
The Safe Start won't hurt. It is supposed to be the replacement for Biospira, only Safe Start doesn't have to be refridgerated.
Snails are common problem with live plants. A lot of plants are treated with snail killing chemicals, which doesn't always work. So long as they don't get out of control the problem is mainly aesthetic. The main thing that leads to a snail population explosion is overfeeding fish. They need less food than most newcommers think.
You can leave the snails there, or pick them out when you see them - or crush them against the glass once you have fish, they'll appreciate the snack - or use something like the lettuce leaf technique (it never works for me though) which involves weighting a leaf of lettuce down in the tank last thing at night then taking it out first thing in the morning hopefully covered in snails.
There are snail killing chemicals but do you really want a load of dead snails rotting in your tank where you can't find them?
I have snails in my tanks, nerite snails which I bought and small flat snails (a type of ramshorn) which I didn't buy and have had for years. I crush them when I see them but nothing else, there aren't that many.
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Hi Sue,
Interesting....yes, he did have some Neon Tetras also Emperor Tetras, so perhaps he's telling me porkies! I'm going to another shop tomorrow. It's a large pet store in a bigger town. They have a large fish department including some beautiful marine set-ups. My youngest son has moaned that all the messing about with starting my tank, I should have had a marine one! My eldest son has had a marine aquarium for about 10 years now and I clearly remember him having to jump through hoops to get it stabilized. I have to say though, it is stunning. One of his fish is from his original group and he is extremely fond of him.
Anyway, as you know, I digress! I shall see what the fish look like at the big store also at the garden centre near there. It's very different getting livestock of any sort in France. The pet stores still sell puppies and kittens. They are all pedigrees, (not that I'm saying they're better) and come from local breeders. The naming of pedigree animals is quite strict too, they have a different letter for each year, (a bit like a car registration) and the animal is registered with a name beginning with the designated letter. This years letter is H. It's very tough seeing cats and dogs in a pet shop environment but I have to say they are kept scrupulously clean and thestaff have always got one or other in their arms giving them a cuddle or generally playing with them. Customers are also able to hold them, they have had their first vaccinations....the animals, that is, (don't know about the customers)!!!
I shall keep an eye on snail numbers and pick them out if they look like taking over!
Can't wait to get some fish!!!!!
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Ok peeps...some advice please? I added 1.2 ml ammonia to my tank last night and have tested the water today with the following results:
G.H. 180
K.H. 240
P.H. 8.0
Nitrites 3
Nitrates 160 (eek!)
Ammonia 0.25
I'm thinking I need to do a fairly drastic water change......quick! What do you all think? I know though, that when you have added Tetra Safe Start, you're not supposed to do any water changes for at least a week, I think even maybe 2 weeks. I'm unsure of the way ahead...any advice gratefully received, thanks.
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Definitely sounds like you need a big water change to me :-) I wouldn't worry about losing your safe start too much... they don't really seem to do much, and if they have worked your bacteria should be growing in your sponges etc now and not in the water itself... I think getting your nitrates back down will be better so it doesn't stall your cycle. However I'm only just nearing the end of my first ever cycle so maybe wait until TigzFish or someone sees this to do anything!
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Definitely sounds like you need a big water change to me :-) I wouldn't worry about losing your safe start too much... they don't really seem to do much, and if they have worked your bacteria should be growing in your sponges etc now and not in the water itself... I think getting your nitrates back down will be better so it doesn't stall your cycle. However I'm only just nearing the end of my first ever cycle so maybe wait until TigzFish or someone sees this to do anything!
I agree entirely. Your ammonia eating bacteria are doing fine and a 50% water change will still leave 1.5ppm of NO2 for the others to munch on.
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aah..thanks guys. I thought that was what was needed, but it's always nice to have other input when you're a complete beginner! I have been following your progress with great interest, Jesnon....well done, it sounds like fishes are just a heartbeat away for you.....how exciting!
Thanks ColinB for your patience and encouragement, it's most welcome.
Should I add more ammonia tonight after I've done my water change, if so, how much? Do I need to change the water again tomorrow or Sunday or will it depend on tomorrows water test?
Thanks.
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My pleasure!
I'd say no more ammonia tonight - the ammonia eaters will easily survive until tomorrow and it'll give you a chance to see what's happening with the Nitrite bugglies. Adding ammonia will cloud the issue and just (eventually) add to the Nitrates you're producing. You must have a decent quantity of the little Nitrite chompers to be getting such a high Nitrate reading.
In my humble opinion, anyway! ;D
p.s. I've just bought 4 more five-band barbs to add to my little flock of 5. They're great little fish for a smallish tank (55litres). They're just acclimatising as I type this. whoopie 8)
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Thanks Resa, I can't wait now! It does sound like your cycle is progressing much faster than mine did! You'll have to take some pictures of your new arrivals Colin!
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You'll have to take some pictures of your new arrivals Colin!
I'll try, but the little buggers won't stay still.
It does seem rather strange that, on a forum dedicated to fish, there's not a section specifically for one's fish. There's fish health, identification etc., but nothing just to chat about (or show off) one's nice, healthy, well identified, well maintained, ready cycled, fish! Ho-hum.
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That's a good point actually! I'll certainly be showing off mine when I finally get them ha
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Oh they're sweet, aren't they, ColinB? I was looking at them here the other day, but I was put off having any of the barb family because I read somewhere that they can be nippy! I thought they might take exception to my guppies when I get them. Please put a piccie of them up though...I'd love to see them. I agree that a section to show your tanks and new fishy arrivals would be great. I'm sure when I eventually get mine I will still have a zillion questions about their health and well-being.
I don't know if my tank is progressing any quicker than yours, Jesnon.....I'm a long way off still, I suspect. I did have a bit of a false start when I had to empty it all away after my bogwood leached yucky brown everywhere! I'm quite pleased with my plants, they seem to be doing well and a few of them have new growth after I gave them a haircut! In hindsight, I wouldn't have had gravel in my tank, just sand. I have put quite a large swathe of sand in the tank because I read that my little panda corys (when I get them!) might hurt themselves on gravel. I'm really chuffed with how the sand looks. The things I love the most though, are my moss balls. I have called them 'Moss Bros', those 'oldies' amongst us will perhaps remember the gents outfitters!
Really disappointed yesterday, we went to go to the large fish store about 40 minutes away....and about 15 minutes in to the journey we got a puncture! The stupid car only had one of those ridiculous skinny tyres as a spare, so big day out to fish shop had to be aborted. I won't be able to go now until next week.
Do any of you keep an eye on the forum at weekends? I only ask in case my water tests throw up anything scary!
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By the way, what's the difference between junior member, full member etc?
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By the way, what's the difference between junior member, full member etc?
Just the number of posts - you 'become' a full member after 100 posts. I think you'll become a 'junior member' with one more post. :)
I don't tend to look at the forum over the weekend I'm afraid.
The five-band barbs are lovely and have never even tried to nip one of my (few remaining) guppies. (Sage the Guppy died this morning of some unknown cause. :'( At least he had the decency to wait until March so that I've had a death-free month in Feb!!!))
The Five-band barbs have a bit of a chase of each other, but that's about it. They hang out together at the front of the tank, just above the gravel where I've got dead leaves (beech and Indian almond) and under the overhanging leaves of crypt plants.
The Cherry barb boys are a bit terratorial and flare their fins at each other and chase a bit. The Barbie-girls (cherry) stay together more, however, the cherry barbs don't shoal like the five-bandy barbs do. They hang out more in the middle at the back amongst the plants.
Bizarrely, Crumble the Platy (boy) stays with the chery barb girls and chases the boy barbs away.
I'll try some piccies next week. I don't want camera flash spooking brand new arrivals just yet.
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Oh, sorry to hear about Sage. How many guppies do you have left? Your tank sounds brilliant with all the foliage....I look forward to seeing a piccie when all the new arrivals have settled in.
Have a great weekend, see you on Monday, I expect!
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Oh, sorry to hear about Sage. How many guppies do you have left? Your tank sounds brilliant with all the foliage....I look forward to seeing a piccie when all the new arrivals have settled in.
Have a great weekend, see you on Monday, I expect!
Thanks Resa. I've got a small hospital tank set up (the tank of death!) with one Platy (Biscuit) 'cos he and Crumble the Platy fought like.... er, similies fail me on that one. There's a Guppy (Bayleaf) with fin-rot in there with him.
In the main tank there're three Guppies (Fennel, Mint and Mustard) along with one Platy, 6 Cherry Barbs, 9 Five-band barbs and 4 Red Cherry Shrimp. If you call them names it 'hurts' more when they turn up their fishy toes. *sigh*.
Have a bon weekend yourself - I hope it's a good one for you and yours.
p.s. You're now a 'junior member'. Congrats! (http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm163/pandaheyes/whatever/mr-happy.gif)
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There is a section for photos ;D
Scroll down the index page to 'community' and the second section in there is 'gallery showcase'. You'll find a couple of my threads there already ;D
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It does seem rather strange that, on a forum dedicated to fish, there's not a section specifically for one's fish. There's fish health, identification etc., but nothing just to chat about (or show off) one's nice, healthy, well identified, well maintained, ready cycled, fish! Ho-hum.
There's "General fishkeeping chat" if you don't want to post photos
Do any of you keep an eye on the forum at weekends? I only ask in case my water tests throw up anything scary!
There's usually someone around.
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Thanks for that, Steve. That's good to know...
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I'm usually around on weekends, just not as often as weekdays. Husband - "You're not messing round with fish sites again!!!!!!" I reckon if he is looking at music sites, I can look at fish sites. That's what he's doing now, so I'm here ;D
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Sounds perfectly acceptable to me!
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I know... I keep getting the same, even though he spends eons on the bloody computer!!!!!
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Hi!
Didn't add ammonia last night and did a massive water change as advised. I have done water tests today but I guess they won't help much as they're just testing mostly fresh water? Anyway, these were the results:
G.H. 120
K.H 240
P.H. 8.0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 40
Ammonia 0
Should I add ammonia tonight and how much?
Thanks guys.
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Yes you should add ammonia. Having 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites isn't helping your cycle at all. I would add enough to get your ammonia up to 4 or 5 ppm.
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Thanks Steve, I'll do that. What do you suggest amount wise? 2 or 3ml ammonia, it's a 60 litre tank but I have a fair bit of substrate and planting.
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The amount of ammonia you need to add depends on the strength of the ammonia in the bottle. The common % is 9.5 but yours could be different. For 60 litres and 9.5% you would add about 2.5ml, but if the bottle is stronger than 9.5% you need less, or vice versa.
I suggest you add 1ml, wait about 20mins for it to mix in, then test for ammonia. if the reading is too low, add more.
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Thanks Sue. My ammonia strength is 13%. I just didn't want to test too often until my next ammonia test kit arrives. I'm not sure how many tests I have left in my bottles.
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OK....here are the shipping forecasts...oh, alright then...my water tests!
Sundays:
G.H 120
K.H. 240
P.H. 7.5
Nitrites 0.5 to 1
Nitrates 40 to 80
Ammonia 0
I added 2.5ml ammonia Sunday night, and todays results are:
G.H. 120
K.H. 240
P.H. 7.5
Nitrites 0.5 to 1
Nitrates 40 to 80
Ammonia 0
Should I add more ammonia tonight? Am I nearly there? ???
Thanks!
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Yes, add more ammonia. You still have nitrites so you need to keep dosing until they too drop to zero within 12 hours of adding the ammonia.
How many ppm does you dose of ammonia equate too?
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You'll have to take some pictures of your new arrivals Colin!
I've put a couple of piccies in the Gallery section. They're not very good and I couldn't get the fish to smile, but it's a start. ;)
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I'VE DONE IT!!! You'll probably tell me off but......I've bought fishes!!! I'd had 5 days solid of zero readings so I went to have a look at the fish selection at the big store, (where we set off to look the other day when we got a puncture!). I didn't expect them to have all the fish on my list, and as you know (Sue) I had researched my choice of fish quite thoroughly and got it down exactly to what I thought I had settled on. Mmm...well, you should always be prepared to think again, I say. So, I got the guppies I had on my list, 5 in the end not 7, 3 sweet little otos, 3 gorgeous blue marble platies and a beautiful colisa lalia in a fetching shade of powder blue, (which happens to be my favourite colour). I did have rainbow fish on my original list as well as blue tetras, but Sue said I could have one or the other because of the numbers needed. Anyway, when I saw the rainbows in the shop I wasn't that taken with them so they're off the list! They had some blue tetras in a huge display tank but they weren't for sale, but they are getting some in next week. I shall go and look at them again but I might not be able to have them depending on any tweaks I make to my others. The platies weren't on my list but they were so-ooo lovely, I have a little boy and two little girls...although since I got them, (Thursday) one of the little girls seems to me to have become a little plump!! I understand that one of the reasons to suspect your platy may be pregnant is because she is a platy ;D. Likewise the otos weren't on my list, but I couldn't resist them, they're sweet little fellows and they are so busy chomping around the tank.
Now my fishy friends, I need help! I am completely confused about my colisa. I have read until I've gone cross-eyed about them to see if I should keep him on his own or not, and people say keep them in pairs, then others say keep several. then someone else says no, they must be kept alone, then unless you bought a pair at the same time you can't add a mate later......aagh! How is a person supposed to know what to do? One of the shops was selling them in pairs, but of course, we all know you can't trust the shops, so, I figure you have all had such good advice, I would be guided by any of you who have experience in this lovely fish.....what should I do, please? I am also wondering if I should increase the number of platies from three to say, five-ish? I would still like to get my little panda cories too though, and Sue said I should have six of those so I have to watch my allowance. Both the stores had them and they are really cute but I want them all to be happy so I don't want to overcrowd them. All thoughts much appreciated.
One of the smaller guppies was picking on two of the slightly bigger ones and I even caught the little devil tail-nipping them! I was going to whip him out and put him on the naughty step, but then I read somewhere that when they are all in the big tanks in the shops they have their alpha male sorted out, then we go along and buy a handful of them and they are in a new group and have to sort out their pecking order again. Having had chooks for donkeys years I know about pecking order and how strict it is so this kind of made sense to me. Anyway, the upshot is, I left him where he was and kept a close eye on him, (to tell the truth, I have barely stopped looking at them all since they arrived, I have been bewitched), and he seems to have remembered his manners now and is behaving.....mostly.
Anyway, I have rambled, I'm just so excited to have them at last! My 'other half' just looks at me and rolls his eyes heavenwards....he says I only "talk fish" these days :) I'm glad though that I did the cycle because it meant I could get quite a few straight away and also my readings have still been zero, I intend on doing a small water change tomorrow though. I know the water and substrate need to be kept pristine because my choice of fish are not the hardiest and they need good conditions to stay healthy.
Well, I hope someone can help with my colisa dilemma, also can I get my pandas yet, do you think? My tank is 60L.
Thanks All :)
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woop-woop. Congratulations on your new arrivals.
My advice would be.....
.....definitely no more male platies, two will fight when they mature. You'd need quite a few to spread the aggression around and your tank isn't big enough.
......no panda cories for at least a month. They're very sensitive to nitrates and you need to let your tank and inhabitants 'settle' and have your nitrates stable and under control (and under 20ppm). (Info here (http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/corydoras-genus).)
.....I can't help with your Colisa problem, I've come accross exactly the same thing when wondering about getting a single Honey Gourami.
.....Rainbow fish always look 'washed-out' in the shop, their colours improve with age and a good planted tank.
.....read up about Oto's, they're fussy eaters and 60L won't keep them in algae for very long at all. You'll be needing to add blanched cucumber, courgette or similar. You could put a few rocks in water in bright sunlight to deliberately grow algae and swap them in and out of the tank to be grazed. A plump Oto is a happy Oto.
.....but mainly, enjoy your tank.
p.s. Remember the rules Resa.... you have to post pictures! ;D
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Oh, thank you, Colin for all your help.
Yes, I was only going to get females if I got more platies....will they be happy in their gang of three or should I get a couple more? I'll hang fire on another colisa until I have more feedback from someone. Now though, I'm panicking! What do you mean about the cucumber etc? Just cut a piece and drop it in to boiling water then add to the tank? What else can I give them? How long do I leave it in there for them.....1/2 hour, an hour....a day??? I don't want them to starve, they're only tiny as it is.
I must be mad, getting a tank...something else to worry about! I have always found fish relaxing, but I guess that was because they were someone else's and it wasn't my problem to worry about water conditions :-\
In the meanwhile I'll have a look at the link you gave me for the nitrates....
P.S. I'll try and get some piccies posted today....I'm not fab at technology :)
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Yes, enjoy your tank ;D
Don't forget to keep an eye on your amm & nit levels just in case.
Platies - I would stick at just the three. They can get quite large and will take up a chunk of your stocking allowance if you get more.
Since you now have female platies, be prepared for fry. It will sound cruel, but the best thing to do is nothing. If you try to save all the fry, you will be inundated and overstocked in no time. Both females will have fry every month, and the older they get the more they'll have. If you do nothing, most fry will be eaten but some will make it. Even if you have a shop that would take them, they'll only want them when they reach the size yours were when you got them. OK, lecture over ;D
Colin's right about the otos. A lot die shortly after purchase because of the way they are caught and treated in transit. It can be difficult feeding them, some people report they'll take sushi nori as well as algae. With cucumber (or better, courgette/zucchini as it's more nutritious than cucumber) cut a thin slice the first time, weight it and put in the tank last thing at night. Next morning, remove what's not been eaten. If there is any, the platies will enjoy it too. I have a 'screwcumber' (ebay) to weight it or you can use anything made of stainless steel eg a skewer or teaspoon handle. Not all otos will eat veggies, some are very picky eaters.
Colisa lalia - the males have a tendancy to be nasty to females if he wants to breed and she doesn't. Males have been known to kill females. The usual recommendation is 1 male or 1 male + 2 females. It's the same principle as with livebearers, he can't chase both of them at the same time so each one gets time off. The only downside (at least in the UK, French shops may be different) is that this species of gourami for some reason is only priced as pairs in shops where they sell both sexes. If your shops are the same you can always ask for 1m 2f or 1m. The worst they can say is no. The other problem is that a lot of shops won't sell females because they are "too plain and boring and no-one will want them". Some will even try to convince you a powder blue male is a female (I've witnessed that!). Two males in a 60 litre tank is not a good idea :(
This species of gourami is prone to dwarf gourami iridovirus (DGIV) and other infections. If you do get any, make sure every single fish in the tank is healthy before buying. If any look sickly, the rest will get sick soon.
Or get honey gouramis. These are generally healthier and can be kept as 1m1f. Though I'm biased, I've always had honey gouramis, my tank doesn't look right to me without any ;D
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Oh, thank you, Colin for all your help.
Yes, I was only going to get females if I got more platies....will they be happy in their gang of three or should I get a couple more? I'll hang fire on another colisa until I have more feedback from someone. Now though, I'm panicking! What do you mean about the cucumber etc? Just cut a piece and drop it in to boiling water then add to the tank? What else can I give them? How long do I leave it in there for them.....1/2 hour, an hour....a day??? I don't want them to starve, they're only tiny as it is.
I must be mad, getting a tank...something else to worry about! I have always found fish relaxing, but I guess that was because they were someone else's and it wasn't my problem to worry about water conditions :-\
In the meanwhile I'll have a look at the link you gave me for the nitrates....
P.S. I'll try and get some piccies posted today....I'm not fab at technology :)
My pleasure.
For the courgette I put a thin slice in a small amount of water and microwave for about 45secs and then leave it in my tank for a day. Much longer and it can start to disintegrate into your water.
The first six months of tank ownership is the hardest, after that it's great. I sit and watch my tank for ages - I don't watch much TV anyway and I watch my tank far more. It really can be very relaxing. Just one last word of advice for now...... keep your fingers out of the tank unless you really need to do something like a water change. It's very tempting to always want to be doing something, but just let the tank do it's thing and water test every day for at least a week, then every other day, then every week. Don't mess with the plants or rocks even if you don't like where they are. You need to let the fish, plants and biofilter get into equilibrium. It will take a few months to really settle.
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OK....first, Sue. No more little blue platies then. I just asked for three, I didn't specify males or females, should I have just got females really? Where do they like to go to have their babies? Do they hide or anything? Is it alright for the other fish to eat them, or can they eat too many if there ends up with as many as you say?
Hubby is back from his mission....."quick....you need to get me courgette...NOW!" I have tried a thin slice and a bigger piece, the guppies love it, but so far the otos either haven't sniffed it out or they don't fancy it or they'll eat it later tonight....I just don't want them to starve!!! Right, have just seen Colin's post and have now nuked said courgette.....perhaps they'll be more interested now. I'm going to do a lot more reading up on otos. Will they eat sinking wafers? Am I right in saying they do algae ones....or have I just made that up??? I hope my little fellas will be ok, I will feel dreadful if they don't make it. :(
So, no more colisas either. I'm guessing you can't put honey gouramis in with colisas or you would have similar problems. Colin has said that I need to wait at least a month for my pandas, so I'll be good ...and wait! I hope they still have some then. Thanks Sue.
Now Colin, thanks for the courgette tip, I can't get any different fish food for them until tomorrow as the shops are closed on Mondays.
I am going to do a small water change now, I thought I would do about 10% 3 times a week....what do you think? I am testing the water everyday and so far, zero on ammonia and nitrites. I will be good and not mess about with anything else in the tank, except I thought I might add one more plant to give the colisa a bit more hiding.
Thanks for all help...I really appreciate it. :)
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Hiya
1 boy platy and 2 girls is a fine mix. I don't think that they're fussy about giving birth - they just drop 'em..... then eat them :P
As for water changes, as long as Ammonia and Nitrites are zero and Nitrates stay in the orange, then I'd stick to about 15% once a week. Just hoover off poo and stuff from the gravel surface, try and keep your gravel layer relatively undisturbed as a lot of good stuff goes on in there. You want a tidy tank, not an anti-septic one. Bacteria are your friends ;D
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Cheers Colin,
That is what I'll do then. I'll keep an eye out for fry when I do the hoovering....wouldn't want to suck up the little blighters! ;D
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You will hoover up fry ;D What you need to do is check the bucket before emptying it. I find that hoovered up endler fry stick to the bottom of the bucket so I can empty most of the water then just net the fry out. They seem to cope with the whole thing very well. By the time they get big enough to get stuck in the tube they will be strong enough to escape the current trying to suck them in.
I missed the fact you'd got your Colisa :-[ He'll be OK alone.
Otos eat almost exclusively algae so algae wafers are what you need. Some people find they eat them, others don't; it seems very much down to what the individual fish is prepared to eat.
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Ahh fantastic - so happy for you Resa! We definitely need some pics!
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Resa, you might find this (http://www.otocinclus.com/index.html) link useful about Oto's. The site hasn't been updated for a few years but there're some good articles.
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Thanks Jesnon, it can't be long now before you can get some little fishies! How's your tank coming on?
I'm so happy to finally have some little residents in mine.....now I've just got to keep them alive! They all seem to have settled in well...I've probably jinxed it now. I'm a bit worried about the otos, they seem to have a reputation for turning up their little fishy toes (as Colin would say) in the first month of getting them...eek! Colin says it's all more relaxing after the first 6 months, I hope so!
I did a water change last night, it was fun trying to pour fresh water back in. There I was, being all careful trying to avoid 'drowning' the fish but it was hopeless as the guppies kept playing in the bubbles as I poured! It didn't matter how many times I changed the area I was tipping it in to, they swam over and deliberately stayed under it. Well, everyone appears to have survived the experience...me included! I spotted one snail so I oiked him out. After reading someone else's (forgotten who) post I decided I wasn't going to let snails become a problem in my tank, certainly not after all this time of getting it ready and keeping it nice!
Anyway, I'm hoping to have the time later for 't'other half' to show me how to upload some piccies of my little darlings. Should I put them here or on the gallery bit?
Have been looking at a really useful site as well, it's all about otos. Colin put me on to it. He and Sue have been brilliant with their help and advice.....and patience!
Well, I hope eveything is going well with your preps and you have the gurgle of little bubbles really soon, keep posting so we know, won't you?
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Unfortunately things are still slow with my cycle at the minute, I'm not really sure what's going on... had a blip of reappearance of nitrite - it's driving me mad! I can't wait to get my little fishies finally! I'll definitely keep you all updated :-) The guys here really are amazing for their advice!
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I spotted one snail so I oiked him out. After reading someone else's (forgotten who) post I decided I wasn't going to let snails become a problem in my tank, certainly not after all this time of getting it ready and keeping it nice!
WARNING: Snail lovers, look away now!
If you oik a snail out you can squash it and drop it back in - the guppies will love it!
My guppies play in the return water as well. I did think that was because they were very stupid creatures, but this month's issue of Scientific American has a report which contains the following:
[Then] the researchers gave the fish a numerical learning task (guppies have the rudimentary ability to count).
.... I read this out to MrsB. My, how we laughed :-\ :-\ :-\
Hope all's well with your fishy friends, Resa.
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My endler guppy hybrids also like to play in the new water stream ;D
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Hi Guys!
Jesnon, i'm sorry to hear you have had a glitch with your cycling, I hope it all comes right for you soon.
I found a new fishy shop today, (in fact, I found a few, but spent too long in the first one so ran out of time for the others!) I managed to get some sinking algae wafers, they didn't look like I was expecting them to. They are little roundish things, about the size of an aspirin, are they the right ones? Anyway, I dropped a couple in to the tank and the guppies attacked them on their way to the bottom, but so far the otos either haven't found them or they don't fancy them. If anyone has any more suggestions for food for them, I'm willing to try anything! When I got home, all the platies and the guppies were all over the piece of courgette I had put in.....is there anything guppies won't eat??? ;D
I'm thinking that this wasn't a bad fish shop as they at least had all their bettas in properly filtered and heated tanks, they had some absolutely splendid ones in the most amazing colours. They had quite a range of fish, both marine and tropical. They had corys, but only albino and what I assume to be salt & pepper ones. They also had eel-like creatures, eugh! too much like snakes for my liking! I really hope the other shop still has panda corys in a months time when my tank has settled even more. By the way, what is the acceptable level for nitrates? I know Colin said under 20 for corys, but is that the general amount you shouldn't go above? Is the only way to reduce it by doing water changes? Is there anything else you can do to keep it down (I don't mean instead of water changes)? Probably pretty stupid questions, I know but this is all a steep learning curve, this fish lark. Also, should I get some java fern? Everyone seems to have it in their tanks?
Oh well guys, thanks for the help :)
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I'm back! More questions I'm afraid. Have been browsing and found some stuff on Java Moss and some beautiful carpets and caves made using it. I really love how it looked, but have you guys got any opinions on it? Most folk said they loved it but some were saying it was a nightmare and they wished they'd never got it. Also, is it true that Java Moss and Java Fern help keep your nitrate levels low? I was thinking it might be nice for Rafe's (my betta) tank? Maybe even a bit in my main tank?
All thoughts welcome. Thanks.
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Bonjour Resa. I don't know about moss caves and the like, but java fern is too slow growing to keep Nitrates down.
I've tried a variety of quick growing plants, especially surface plants, and they've nearly all been spectacular failures. Am I the only person unable to grow Elodea :-[?
The best planted stem plant by far has been Hygrophillia polysperma (link (http://www.plantsalive.co.uk/aquarium-plants/individual-plants/hygrophilia-polysperma/prod_515.html#.UUAvKqW9CSo)). It looks good, the fish like it, the bottom leaves stay on and when it gets to the surface you just chop off what you don't want and the plant keeps on growing and getting bushier. You can plant the cutting and it'll grow, or add it to the compost bin. This has got the Nitrates in my hospital tank down to 5ppm from the 15ppm that is in my water change water.
I'm trying Hygrophillia difformis (Wisteria) (link (http://www.plantsalive.co.uk/aquarium-plants/individual-plants/hygrophillia-difformis-or-wisteria/prod_513.html#.UUAveKW9CSo)) in my main tank as a stem plant, but I'm not too impressed so far. It's only been in two weeks so it's early days. It looks like it might work well as a floating plant, though. I've got a few test pieces of different cutting floating around and it's looking good at the moment.
There are Nitrate eating bacteria you can encourage to grow, but they require anaerobic conditions and can take up to six months to get established where water flow is minimal. If you have a gravel bed of about 1mm diameter and 3 - 4cm depth which you leave undisturbed then this can achieve this. Larger grains get too much flow and smaller grains compact too much and get no flow.
You could use lava rock, especially with java fern growing on it (link (http://www.plantsalive.co.uk/aquarium-plants/plants-on-rock/microsorium-pteropteris-java-fern-/prod_81.html#.UUAtiqW9CSo)). This rock has a slight porosity so a minimal water movement through it can achieve the right conditions.
You could use scintered-glass bio-media (link (http://www.tynevalleyaquatics.co.uk/#/biohome-ultra-media/4573388508)) and this will created the necessary conditions for the bugglies to grow. This is what I'm going to do; I'll replace my ceramic noodles a bit at a time every couple of months over the coming year until I have the scintered glass media in my filter.
In my opinion the best processes are natural, but you can get Nitrate absorbing filter sponges to add to your filter and this chemically removes the nitrate. This will need replacing every so often as it gets used up.
Hope this helps...... a bit!
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Reducing nitrate is a tricky one, especially when there is high nitrate in the tapwater - with that you can never get it below the tap level by water changes alone unless you go down the reverse osmosis route.
As Colin says, there are anaerobic bacteria which convert nitrate to nitrogen gas. The difficulty with growing those is finding a region of the tank which has no, or at least very little, oxygen in the water. We do our best to get lots of oxygen in there. Various contraptions have been tried over the years (eg the nitrex box) to cultivate these bacteria but none of them stay on the market long. Does this mean they don't work?
Some Juwel tanks have a nitrate sponge in their filters but the consensus is they don't work.
Mervyn has a nitrate filter - see reply 3 http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,182.0.html though google shows they are not cheap.
Finally plants - I've read they remove all nitrate or they only lower it by a few ppm depending where you look. It's obvious they can help but just how much? We need one of the plant experts to tell us which is the truth.
Colin, I can't grow elodea either. On the old forum I was famous for my lack of plant growing skills. I couldn't even grow duckweed :o But there is hope for me. The duckweed was in a bag with some fish. It grew well for a few weeks then disappeared without trace - or so I thought. A couple of months ago I noticed duckweed among the salvinia and it's now growing well. There must have been the odd surviving plant hiding in the salvinia biding its time ;D
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Guppies and platies do like their veggies. The way to make sure the otos get a chance is to drop the veggies/algae wafers in just as you turn the room lights out for the night. The guppies & platies will soon 'go to sleep' so the otos will get a chance.
Some algae food looks like tablets, other makes look like green micro-pringles.
The other trick was mentioned by Colin a few posts ago. Put a few stones in a glass container of water on a sunny window sill. Once they grow algae, drop one into the tank (last thing at night or the guppies/platies will eat the algae). When it's clean, put another stone in the tank and return the first to the container to grow some more. Having several stones on the go means there will always be a supply of algae.
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Thanks for the info Colin and Sue.
All my little fishy friends seem fine, and the otos look a little plumper! The colisa loves the sinking wafers and even 'bumped' away the platies so he could eat it all himself!
I will be reading through the links that Colin gave, but at the moment nothing is sinking in as I have gone down with some sort of flu-ey bug, and feel pretty lousy. We have a visitor from the UK here and we often find that they bring some germ or other with them. We always joke that we're like Amazonian tribes, as we don't seem to have resistance to UK bugs and as soon as any ex-pats get their family and friends over then then they invariably bring some lurgy with them!
Not actually sure that any of that made sense, a head full of cotton wool isn't helpful in writing anything.
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Hi All,
So far, so good! All fishies seem to be happy....still keeping my fingers crossed for my little otos, they are so-ooo tiny! I really hope they make it ok. I have put another piece of courgette in today, they all love it! I put my sinking wafers in at lights out last night as suggested by Sue, so hopefully the otos got a look in and I shall do the same tonight.
Water tests today were:
G.H. 180
K.H. 240
P.H. 7.5
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 40
Ammonia 0
I hope I don't get any nasty blips!
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OK...I have more questions...sorry. My tank came with a Marina Slim Filter S15. Now, it says to replace the cartridges every couple of weeks, I don't think that would be useful for keeping my hard-earned bacteria colony...would it? Has anyone else used this particular filter? I have read that with some filters you can change the cartridges over to sponges, is this right and if so, what sort of sponge? Alternately, would I be better to get a different filter, again, if so which one? Also, if you change a filter over, do you run them both until the new one is colonized and able to deal with ammonia and nitrites on it's own?
My tank is only a 60L so I like the idea of an external filter to give me more tank room.
Oh, one more question....if I rinse my filter in the tank water I take out at water changes, will I still preserve my bacteria?
Thanks guys :)
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Bonjour Resa. Those cartridges to replace are the carbon type things which aren't really necessary. You really just need the mechanical filtration of a sponge (which will also house bacteria) and the biological filtration of ceramic or scintered noodles. These have a huge surface area for the bugglies to grow on. They want you to replace the cartridges 'cos it means more profit for them.
I've just got course sponge and ceramic noodles in my filter, and I haven't squeezed out my filter (in tank water) for months. Everything seems fine.
I put 'Marina Slim Filter S15' into Google and this (http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=27864&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=0) seemed like an informative thread.
It looks like a question of bying some filter foam from your LFS and cutting it to fit. Can you do, say, ¼ of the media per month to keep your bugglies up to speed and colonising the new foam?
p.s. I hope you're feeling better.
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Rinsing out in old tank water is the right way to clean filter media. But don't scrub it too hard. The bacteria are attached pretty firmly to the media and a gentle squeeze/swish won't remove them.
I have to admit I don't like those filters which just have cartidges. Hagen's website says yours has three cartridges - 2 bio-carb and 1 bio-clear - and that both contain ceramitek which they say is "a highly porous ceramic filter medium that optimizes biological filtration for a healthy aquarium". The problem is that they mix it with carbon in the bio-carb cartridge and with zeolite in the bio-clear.
Zeolite absorbs ammonia. But it gets full and needs replacing. The chances are that the zeolite in your single bio-clear cartridge is now full so it won't be starving your bacteria (another use for doing a fishless cycle as it would have been used up before you got fish). I do not like using zeolite except for emergencies (like finding ammonia in your tank just before you go away for a few days, then it'll keep your fish safe till you get back home and can start doing water changes). If changed regualrly before it gets full, it removes the ammonia so there is none left to grow any ammonia eating bacteria. This ties you into replacing the zeolite before it becomes saturated for ever. If you forget, it will get full, ammonia will start to build up and there won't be any bacteria to remove it.
In your case, the zeolite would have been saturated during your fishless cycle. If you put a new one in now, not only will you remove a third of your bacteria when you take out the old one but the new zeolite will remove ammonia so the remaining bacteria in the other cartridges won't have enough to multiply. I would leave it there unless you want to change to sponge.
Carbon removes organic chemicals from the water and again it gets full which is why you are supposed to change it. Carbon can be left in the tank forever without much harm. I don't use carbon at all on a routine basis and my tanks don't suffer from lack of it. Once yours is full, it might as well not be there. The only risk is if you ever have to add a medication for sick fish. It is possible that the medication (usually an organic chemical) will be more strongly attracted to the carbon than what's on it now. It could push off the stuff already there and stick to the carbon in its place. But a lot of people seem to get away with that.
If you want to change any cartridges with sponge as Colin suggests do the bio-clear one first. You might have to make a slit in the bag, empty it then put the sponge inside. From the diagram in the manual it looks as though it would need the plastic frame to hold a sponge in place.
The way to changeto a new filter is to put all the media from the old filter into the new one and fill any spaces with media from the new filter. Wait a couple of months then swap one piece of old media with new. A month later take out another piece of old and so on till all the old has gone. In the case of your filter, I would include the strainer sponge as this will have some bacteria in it.
Running two filters side by side is not as efficient as this. Bacteria will grow very slowly in the new filter as the first one will still house all the bacteria your fish need. They won't need to grow in the new filter. Putting the old media in physical contact with the new is a much more efficient way of colonising the new.
It is more expense, but if you do want to change, an external would be best. For an internal, I like Eheims's biopower filters (I have one in my 125 litre tank). That would be the easiest internal to put your cartridges into during the changeover period.
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Hi...sorry for the delay in reply, I feel terrible. I have an absolutely thumping headache, what feels like 1/2 a brick in my throat and am alternating between being freezing cold and burning up! Anyway, enough attention seeking....thanks to Sue and Colin for the filter advice. As soon as my brain is my own again, I shall read thoroughly and make my decision.
Ill or not, I'm still following your cycling adventure, Sue. Tell me, should you wear lycra shorts while your doing that??? ;D
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Tell me, should you wear lycra shorts while your doing that??? ;D
That wouldn't be a very pretty sight where I'm involved ;D Pedal pushers at the most ;D
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Don't make me laugh....it hurts! :D
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OK, like I don't get confused enough. I had to buy another test kit as I had used mine all up, and got a different make (I went to a different shop). My previous one was an API test kit and the new one is JBL 6in1 kit. Well of course, they're slightly different! Anyway here are todays results:
CL2 0
P.H. 7.2
K.H. 20 od
G.H. >14 od
NO2 0
NO3 50
Ammonia 0
I have done 2 approximately 40% water changes in the past week to try and lower my nitrates, (I'm desperate to get my little panda corys, and Colin said I must have lower than 20 for them).
I have tested my tap water for nitrates and the reading was practically zero. Why have I such a high nitrate reading? Any ideas anyone? I feed very sparingly, they clear it in about 30 seconds. I do this twice a day. I have no dead foliage...what else can I try, please?
Thanks guys.
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You have to remember that Nitrates are the end product of the biological filter process. Ammonia --> Nitrites --> Nitrates. As such they will continuously increase as your fish breathe; feeding isn't really relevant. There are 3 ways we can reduce Nitrates;
- Filtration - Nitrate filtration is a lot of hassle and it's reliability is pretty suspect.
- Plants - You need a lot of the right type of plants with vigorous growth to adequately process the Nitrates from anything but the lightest stocked tank.
- Water Changes - These are generally the only reliable means of controlling Nitrates in our tanks. If you have a high level of Nitrates, then it's reasonably safe to assume that you are doing insufficient water changes.
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I have done 2 approximately 40% water changes in the past week to try and lower my nitrates, (I'm desperate to get my little panda corys, and Colin said I must have lower than 20 for them).
Pandas are, apparently, more sensitive to water conditions than other corys. There are, literally, hundreds of different corys. You may be better off looking for some other ones that are more hardy. Planet Catfish (http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/family.php?family_id=1) lists 398 armoured catfishes (family Callichthyidae). There may be some other ones that take your fancy.
Generally, corys are all behaviourally very similar and are an absolute treat in my opinion.
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I have done 2 approximately 40% water changes in the past week to try and lower my nitrates, (I'm desperate to get my little panda corys, and Colin said I must have lower than 20 for them).
I have tested my tap water for nitrates and the reading was practically zero. Why have I such a high nitrate reading? Any ideas anyone? I feed very sparingly, they clear it in about 30 seconds. I do this twice a day. I have no dead foliage...what else can I try, please?
Thanks guys.
No ideas, I'm afraid Resa, but this is why you have to wait a month or so before getting more delicate fish. You have to let you tank (fish/plants/bacteria/gravel etc) come to an equilibrium and your water changes and the water parameters are all part of that equilibrium. Each time you change something (more plants, more fish, added bogwood etc) you can change that equilibrium and you have to let it settle again.
I did quite a big re-plant a month ago. I took out two amazon swords that didn't really fit, and the disturbance of the gravel and the change of plants caused a Nitrate spike which has only just stabilised now. So I'm afraid it's, once again, patience while your tank settles and you get to know how it works. I've heard the whole aquarium and everything in it being likened to a single organism and that you have to learn how it responds to various changes that you make to it.
Hope this helps..... and I hope you're feeling better, too. That sounded nasty and I trust hubby has been pampering you. ;D
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Evening Colin,
You said that when you did your big re-plant and disturbed the gravel etc, it caused a nitrate spike. Do you think it would do that in my tank when I do a water change, as I dig about in the sand and gravel with my siphon nozzle? Just a thought...probably makes no difference.
Steve kindly suggested that I look at some other corys that might not be so susceptible to a higher nitrate, but I don't think that will be a solution because, as you know, I only have a 60L tank so it needs to be one of the three dwarf varieties. I can't remember now, (because frankly, a goldfish retains information better than I do) but the other two types weren't suitable for my set-up....and I love the little pandas!
So, more water changes and also the 'let everything settle' advice will be the order of the day for me. I don't mind doing water changes actually, I find it quite therapeutic....apart from the pesky little guppies who seem to have a death wish and try to get themselves sucked up the nozzle! I am also going tomorrow to see if I can get that plant you gave me the link for that you said helped the nitrate level in your hospital tank.
I'm looking forward to some fishy time and more browsing amongst all things aquaria. I'm a bit stir-crazy where I have been hunkered down indoors battling bugs! I am feeling much better, thank you Colin, although now, I have done something to my back, I don't know, pinched a nerve or something. It's quite painful but a source of some merriment to my other half and son, when it suddenly twinges and makes my legs give way...very amusing ::) In answer to your question as to whether I have been pampered or not.....definitely 'or not' would be my opinion. However, my son has been going to work in my place so that was nice of him. It has been unusually manky weather just lately, and flipping cold, so I haven't missed doing that. I have just been spending my time with different fish to normal ;D
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Bon soir Resa,
I think my problem was I disturbed a lot of gravel which brought up a load of mulm, and then I didn't hoover that out - it just added to the Nitrate load in my tank. If you're doing proper gravel cleaning then anything you disturb should be hoovered out. So I'm sure that's not your problem.
I don't blame you about the panda's. I'm planning my next tank and my main criteria is to keep panda cories. It'll be another 55litre tank so it'll take some careful planning to make it suitably different from my current tank.
eek - putting your back out is horrible. I have a long history of 'putting my back out' (sacro-illiac joint, to be anatomically correct) and an ice-pack down the trousers is the only way for me. :P I must have about 57 different words for all the subtle variations on 'bad back'.
Manky weather here too. Thunder and sleet today. I want to get the outside fish sorted soon. Muck their pond out and get the filter-pump installed and running, but there's no point when the water temp is so low.
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Bonsoir Colin,
yes, it has been agony, driving is especially tricky and our bumpy drive is torture but I'm determined to go and do fishy things tomorrow! An ice-pack is definitely not for me, I have gone for the hot-water bottle option, much more pleasant :)
We too, had terrific sleet today, it actually left ice all over the windows....brrr! I just hope we don't get any more snow as we then can't get out of our steep, windy and bumpy drive to get to work. We can usually get ourselves out in the 4x4 but can't get the work wagon out. It's a bloody nuisance.
How exciting...you're going to get pandas too! What else are you going to have with them and how many are you planning on? I'm aiming for 6.
I fancied having a pond here, but I'm unsure because I don't want to encourage the snakes! Please don't tell me that they are more scared of me than I am of them....because that just aint possible! We had a very big snake problem for a few years and have even had them in the house....aaagh! Once, while here on my own for a few days I had one in the middle of the night in the living room, hissing and striking at me....completely terrifying! We have reduced the number now, by gunning up the old terrace which had all cavities under it, where they were living and laying eggs galore. One summer, in just 3 weeks we had 27 on the terrace. They lay by the front door or behind the shutters, or come in open windows! Last year, we had none ( or not any that we saw) until about September when I had 3 babies appear on the terrace, so I have still got at least one breeding pair about. Fingers crossed for this summer :)
Resa
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eeek - Snakes!!!! Venomous ones??? Don't your cats keep them away? I know nothing about snakes as you can probably tell.
One of (actually - the only) resons that I don't have panda cories in my current tank is that Thames Water supply me with 25ppm Nitrates right out of the tap. I use RO water in a mix of 2:3 RO:tap and this brings the water hardness down to 10o and the added Nirates down to 15ppm, but I'm still looking for a suitable plant selection to bring the Nitrates down further. Hygrophillia polysperma looks like it may be the one, but I'm trying a few different ideas. I don't seem to be able to grow plants very well so it looks like Corydoras, Anubias and Java Fern are going to be the main contenders, but what I don't want is both tanks to have the same mix of plants in them - I want them to look different, hence my continual experimentation. I'm going to have a play with the Pygmy Chain Sword (Echinodorus tenellus) next to see if that'll grow.
My plan for the next tank (40cm cube; 55litres; Click here (http://www.aquaone.co.uk/aquanano.php)) would be 6 panda cories and my two male salt'n'peppar platies (one of whom is in my hospital tank to isolate them as, contrary to all I'd read up about in my pretty extensive research, male platies don't get on together after they mature >:( ) along with 5 female salt'n'peppar platies to keep the boys distracted from beating hell out of each other. ( A bit like teenagers, really ;D) After a few months of seeing how that goes I'll either keep it as is, add numbers to the existing stock or introduce Checkered Barbs as they'll fit in well with the water parameters, cooler temperature and chosen swimming zone (plus I really like barbs :) )
I hope your back's easing up and that you have a good and fishy day today.
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Hi Colin,
Just a quick post to say I have finally managed to get some fishy pics up on the gallery.....I had tried so many times, I was losing the will to live!!!
Anyway, got to have lunch with hubby now, he's grumbling about "bloody fish" and then I want to pop to fishy-shop to see what I can find....
I will post reply re. snakes...venomous? later.....
Resa
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Sorry guys, one more quick question. One of my male guppies is still bullying the others, one in particular. He harasses him ALL of the time, I have 5 of them and they are all males. Should I?
a. Get a few more to make the group larger?
b. Ignore it and let them sort it out? (Although, I would have thought after 2 weeks they would have done this)
c. Get a little isolation box (fishy equivalent of the naughty step) and put my bad boy in there?
d. Some other method that I haven't thought of?
Thanks everyone.
P.S. If it is to enlarge the group or purchase said naughty step, please try and let me know before I leave for the shops after lunch....if you have time!
Ta.
Resa
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Plan b) is best. Mine are still squabbling (sp?) after months together.
I tried plan e).... a stern man-to-man talking to. Didn't work! Enjoy your shopping.
p.s. Nice pics.
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Not really, sorry...but I couldn't resist :D
They did really have some beautiful fish including the cutest little pandas, but I was good. I did get a little something though....sorry, Colin, just a small addition to my tank. I got a small rock with some lovely moss attached to it. The chaps were all intrigued when I put it in the tank :)
They also had some really colourful guppies, vivid orangey platies, several different varieties of corys, loads of bettas and loads of others! I was quite taken with a fish that was called Ramurezi. There was a plainish one that seemed to be outlined in a neon blue and another that was more colourful, though I preferred the first one. I don't think I can have one though as I think they are even more susceptible to nitrate levels...there's probably another dozen reasons why I can't have one, I just haven't looked them up yet on the C.C.
Anyway guys...have a great weekend and I hope your cycling goes well.
Resa
;)
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Mikrogeophagus ramirezi are a south american ciclid. They are, as cichlids go, rather peaceful. However, they are very susceptible to hard water and also require temperatures of around 30C that are unsuitable to most other fish.
That's the bad news. The good news is that they have a close relation called the Bolivian Ram, Mikrogeophagus altispinosus, that are pretty good in a community tank. They can get a bit aggressive, particularly at breeding time, but it is mostly aimed at it's own kind. So a pair of them can make a good addition. They are a little plainer than the ramirezi though.
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Morning Steve,
Thanks for that info. They're quite pretty, aren't they? I just looked them up on the C.C. I can see why you could end up with 17 different tanks :D Everytime I go to a fish shop or have a look online, I see another fish that is so lovely, and then inevitably, there's a reason why I can't have it :D Then again, I suppose we are looking at a creature from all different areas of the world, with all the varying environmental factors and then expect to pick a handful based usually, let's face it, on how they look, and put them all together in a massively scaled down waterworld.....and are then surprised that they don't all get on!
My other half says that all the tropical tanks he has seen in dentists waiting rooms and office receptions for instance, don't usually look like they have had much care and often just have a sad looking group of neons in them with maybe a lone angel for company. Of course, with even the little knowledge I have acquired, I now wonder how any of these fish could still be surviving. :(
I wish in a way that I could have got my pandas when I got my other fish as they are all settled and look and behave like they have always been in my tank. Their colours have all intensified so much, my colisa is simply stunning and the guppies have developed a lovely sheen....in fact I love them all! I hope that when I can eventually get my little pandas they settle in as well and it doesn't rock the boat too much :)
Did you get to go to your fishy shop the other day or are you going over the weekend after all? Don't forget to tell us if you get anything good! Aren't we a nosey lot? :D
Have a good Saturday!
Resa
:)
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Evening All,
I was wondering...when I can get my panda corys, what ratio male to female should I get or doesn't it matter? I am planning on having six as Sue suggested.
Cheers...
Resa
:)
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With fish like cories the sex ratio doesn't matter very much. You'll see mating behaviour with at least male and at least one female. When a particular female is ready to spawn, all the males will chase her and ignore all the other females. Females are plumper than males escpecially if you can view them from above. Tip - if you want them to spawn, when you do a water change make sure the new water is a few degrees cooler than the tank water. In the wild the spawning trigger is the melt water coming down from the mountains. Not that the eggs will last long in a community tank.
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Just spotted 2 fry in my weed!!! (Platys)
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How's your tank going Resa? :-)
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Hi Jesnon,
At the risk of jinxing.....ok, I think :) Everyone seems to be healthy and happy, and their colours are really intensifying. I keep trying to count how many fry there are but they move about too quickly. There are at least 6 though. It's quite amazing how they vary so much in size, some are still really tiny and a couple of the others are about a cm long and starting to get their marbling pattern. I'm going to try and get some pics tomorrow ;D
My big fish have been so good with the babies and haven't seemed to have bothered them at all.
Still really want to get my panda corys though :)
How's everything going with your tank? Have all your endlers settled in and made themselves at home? What will you get next, do you think?
Resa
:)
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Ooh glad to hear it! Looking forward to seeing some more pictures :-) Fingers crossed it won't be too long until you can get your panda corys!
All my endlers look happy and well, even the little blue one that I was so worried about after his tank mate died. They all seem to swim around together a lot more, there's just one that usually swims around on his own but he'll join the group for anything interesting!
Because my tank is so small today I'm going out to get the replacement fish for my one that didn't make it and that's it for my tank fishwise unfortunately! But I'm keen to get shrimps soon! Unfortunately they sound like a long way off!
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Added my replacement endler earlier,he already seems much happier. Fingers crossed!
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Oh, good news, Jesnon :) I'm really pleased you're up to full strength on endlers again. What colour is this one?
Resa
:)
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He's one of the Japanese blue endlers, so now I've got:
Two Japanese blue
Three more traditional endlers
Three 'green' endlers (the ones with the peacock style colouring)
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Good news on the new fish..... but you know the rules: New fish = new photos! ;)