New To Fish Keeping

Hi All!
I'm Resa and have just found this site after going online for help and info and just getting extremely confused and frustrated!  I've even phoned a supposed 'expert' and they just contradicted themself with every other sentence!!!
I see you have had problems with your previous incarnation of Thinkfish.  I wish you all success with this one, and hope to be an active member of it.
I am brand new at this fishkeeping lark and am desperate to eventually get my first fish.....yes, I know I have to be patient and wait until my shiny tank is properly ready and I AM trying but I have got thoroughly confused...everyone seems to tell me something different!  I suppose 'first fish' isn't quite correct because I always had goldfish and black moors as a child and then had shubunkins and little carp in a small garden pond.  Anyway, I digress (I tend to do that), I have also become the very proud owner of a little betta called Rafe.  He is beautiful and a gorgeous blue.  My other half bought him for  me, I think because he was fed up with me moaning "that it was going to be b***** 6 months before I would be able to put a fish in the tank!!!"
So, Rafe lives in his own apartment.
Anyway rambling on, I got my 60 litre tank for Christmas, but because of a million things didn't start doing it until last week.  I checked it for leaks, cleaned it, washed gravel, rocks, wood and plants and filled it.  Pump, heater all working fine, conditioned the water and it all looked beautiful......until the next morning!  The water had turned a lovely shade of nicotine brown!  I emptied it and started again....next morning, same thing!  Now, I realise it's probably the wood but I have been told different things that I must do, from take it out and throw it, (I'd rather not, I spent hours choosing the right piece, my hubby will vouch for that and I love it!) to leave it, the discolouration is harmless to fish....anyone have an idea?  Also, my water cycle stuff says on it to do a 3 day treatment, the fish guy at the shop says don't bother with that.
I'm really sorry to drone on at my first introduction, just keen to get going and actually get a fish!  By the way, I live in France so chats with the experts here are a little difficult.
Any help or advice would be SO welcome.  Thanks everyone.

Bonsoir Colin,
Thanks for the feedback, I shall fish (pardon the pun) the guilty piece of wood out and begin scrubbing and soaking it immediately.
Out of curiosity, why do you say not to use the Nutrafin Cycle stuff?
Resa

Hi Resa, we meet properly!


As Colin mentioned, a fishless cycle is the way to go, though cycling with fish can be done if you are prepared to put in the necessary work - lots and lots of water changes.

The basics are - fish secrete ammonia, but this is toxic to them. Bacteria eventually grow in the filter which convert the ammonia into nitrite. But nitrite is also toxic - and again, bacteria grow in the filter which convert it to nitrate. This is only toxic at high levels.
These bacteria take several weeks to grow, this is called cycling. The two ways to cycle the filter are fishless, where a source of ammonia is added to the tank so the bacteria grow before fish go in; and fish-in where a very small number of fish are put in, and the fishkeeper has to remove the ammonia and nitrite to keep the amounts extremely low while the bacteria grow.

There are more details on both methods here
http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,16.0.html
http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17.0.html

Read through them, then you'll be able to decide which is the best way for you.




Can I ask about Rafe? How long have you had him, what size tank is he in, what is your maintenance regime and have you monitored his water for ammonia and nitrite? As you'll gather from what I've already written, he could be in danger!
Colin's comments on the bottled bacteria products like Nutrafin Cycle are unfortunately quite true. Fish forums are full of new staretrs who use them and find their fish dying from ammonia/nitrite poisoning.

Bonjour Resa

I know nothing about Betta fish and (not being too sure if this is good manners on a forum to direct you to another forum) but there's a dedicated Betta site that might help here: http://www.bettafish.com/

I've had a coffee time browse and this is a good thread on Betta care:

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=20058

I'm glad to see another newbie fish keeper on the board! I've had my tank cycling for the last two weeks, it's a long process but I'm hoping it'll be worth it in the end!

HI All,

Thanks Colin for taking the time to find Betta sites for me...I think I have been on every one!  I have now removed my piece of bogwood (from the aquarium, not Rafe's tank), and am unsure whether I'll bother putting it back even after boiling it.....it does turn the water such a yucky colour.  I may go look for another rock or pebbles instead.  Anyway, of course it means I've got to take the water out ...again!  I wonder if I'll ever get this water ready for fish!

Thanks for the welcome Jesnon, I wish you good luck with your cycling, it's really hard, isn't it, to not just get fish and put them in?  It's a bit like Christmas as a kid, you really want to sneakily open your presents, but you know you have to wait for Christmas morning!

Now, to Sue's points.  I have been partially changing Rafe's water every couple of days.  I have kept a container of water which has had the stuff to get rid of the chlorine, standing so that it starts at room temperature and I can top up his tank when I need to.  At the moment he doesn't have a dedicated heater but is near the log burner, which has been burning since November and will stay alight until probably March/April.  After that, I will have more idea what I am doing (I hope), and will know if he will go in the main aquarium or not.
As for the water treatment in France, I have no idea what they use, and probably if I telephoned them and asked they wouldn't know either!  The gallic shrug being in regular employ here!  You would think that they would sell the right stuff, wouldn't you?  But who knows?  The treatments they sold me were Nutrafin Cycle and Nutrafin Aqua Plus.
As in the UK, different shops here tell you different things.  For example, 2 places said I could have an 8 spot puffer in my tank and 1 place said I couldn't.  It makes it very difficult for novices to learn when you get conflicting advice.  I have enough trouble retaining new info these days as it is!

Anyway, you guys seem to know your stuff so I am afraid you are probably stuck with me and my stupid questions....sorry.

Don't give up on the wood. With enough soaking out of the tank, it will leach enough of the tanins that you won't be able to see any discolouration of the water when it goes back into the tank. I spent the best part of a week soaking my bits of bogwood ( a lot longer for the enormous piece I have). The easiest way is to leave the wood in a bucket /sink etc, and pour boiled water over it. When the water has gone cold, empty the bucket and pour more boiled water over it. Repeat until the water is no longer tea coloured, and you're happy with the colour. Bear in mind that when your tank is set up and you are doing regular water changes, any colour that does leach out will gradually be removed.

I have a feeling that most of the rules that govern our water quality in the UK are EU set. Which means that the French have similar processes. One thing that is different, is that I think they flouridate their water. And they may use more chlorine than we do in the UK. I spent a year living in Toulouse (a decade ago, now!) and I remember the water that came out of the tap sometimes smelling REALLY chloriney. I couldn't bring myself to drink it on those days, so when it smelled better, I'd fill up large bottles of water to keep in the fridge for drinking.

I don't know how much the water quality differs across the different regions, but there may be websites for the French water companies. And it might be easier to find the information you want, if you can read through it at your own pace.

Hi All,
I've just been looking at the Aquascapes, and was quite taken with the one with all the moss balls.  Are they a good addition to a tank or not?  Do they need any special care?  I've read that they trap dirt and keep algae down, is this right?
If they're ok to have where's the best place to get them?  Is online ok?  Living in France I don't know if I can get them at my fish stores here, I certainly haven't seen any.
Thanks.

Moss balls are apparently very easy! all you need to do is give them a squeeze during water changes apparently and they pretty much look after themselves! I'm getting one eventually too as they seem great for beginners. Ive seen them in nearly ecery shop here so I'd look around! I don't know anything about fish but you need to look into your water hardness and ph to know which fish will best suit your tank - have a go with the community creator on here too!